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MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade

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MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#1 » by SD2042 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:50 pm

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3zLNo7XoAElSX0.jpg



https://theathletic.com/904268/2019/04/10/mike-conley-candid-hurt-and-taken-for-granted-but-still-wanting-to-play-for-a-title-somewhere/



The reality is that this move was inevitable. MC11 has been part of the Grizzlies franchise since he was drafted in 2008. He was part of the Fearsome Four that included Zach Randolph, Tony Allen, and Marc Gasol. The Grit-N-Grind era was born from this. Unfortunately like life in general, it comes a time where pages must be turn in order to see what the next story will reveal in life. For Mike Conley and the Grizzlies, it involves both sides to mutually part ways and get on with their lives.

You are well appreciated Mike! Thanks for your time and contributiions as a Memphis Grizzly.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#2 » by VCfor3 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:08 pm

Not officially asking for a trade but yeah he'd like to be elsewhere. Otherwise I think he will chase a ring when his contract ends. I think we will try moving him this offseason.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#3 » by Whole Truth » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:29 am

VCfor3 wrote:Not officially asking for a trade but yeah he'd like to be elsewhere. Otherwise I think he will chase a ring when his contract ends. I think we will try moving him this offseason.


Memphis will try & move him, even if they don't convey the pick?.

Outside of a lotto pick & or a high upside young player with allstar potential (no to Utah's offer of Exum & or mid to late 1st) I'd make Conley wait out his contract obligations. Makes no sense trading an Allstar caliber player for middling talent at any time or for any reason. I still think this team with Conley & the 8th pick added could potentially make the playoffs, which in turn would change his desire to leave, as no player understandably his age wants to go through a rebuild, which is the current outlook.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#4 » by VCfor3 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:43 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Not officially asking for a trade but yeah he'd like to be elsewhere. Otherwise I think he will chase a ring when his contract ends. I think we will try moving him this offseason.


Memphis will try & move him, even if they don't convey the pick?.

Outside of a lotto pick & or a high upside young player with allstar potential (no to Utah's offer of Exum & or mid to late 1st) I'd make Conley wait out his contract obligations. Makes no sense trading an Allstar caliber player for middling talent at any time or for any reason. I still think this team with Conley & the 8th pick added could potentially make the playoffs, which in turn would change his desire to leave, as no player understandably his age wants to go through a rebuild, which is the current outlook.


I mean the starting price I imagine is a 1st and young player. Think one of Ball/Kuzma/Ingram+#11 from the Lakers just as an example. Conley likely will never have close to this value again so they should aggressively explore his market and if a good deal presents itself you take it. If no good deal is offered then you keep him and try to be competitive next season.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#5 » by Whole Truth » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:53 pm

I was thinking about the Suns situation.

They're most likely targeting Morant atop the draft, what happens if they miss out on him?. They have a tone of wing depth on their roster, do they trade off their wing depth for a potential replacement? do they reach on Garland?

Would they consider trading their 2019 lotto selection for Conley if they miss out on Zion/Morant?. I think they potentially would.

Hypothetically, Grizz might be able to net a wing with the Suns pick & White/Garland/Alexander at 8 with their own pick where it wouldn't be as much of a reach. Maybe Grizz get them to eat a bit of Conley's salary in the process as they have no real max contracts … Maybe they're a trade down target?

Another scenario if Conley could net the Suns pick, where Grizz draft say (Johnson/Barret/Hunter) top 5, they could trade down from 8 with Boston, take Alexander @ 14 & Hero @ 20 or use up one of the picks on a boom/bust target, where if he busts, it's 1 out of 3.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#6 » by SD2042 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:57 pm

Whole Truth wrote:I was thinking about the Suns situation.

They're most likely targeting Morant atop the draft, what happens if they miss out on him?. They have a tone of wing depth on their roster, do they trade off their wing depth for a potential replacement? do they reach on Garland?

Would they consider trading their 2019 lotto selection for Conley if they miss out on Zion/Morant?. I think they potentially would.

Hypothetically, Grizz might be able to net a wing with the Suns pick & White/Garland/Alexander at 8 with their own pick where it wouldn't be as much of a reach. Maybe Grizz get them to eat a bit of Conley's salary in the process as they have no real max contracts … Maybe they're a trade down target?

Another scenario if Conley could net the Suns pick, where Grizz draft say (Johnson/Barret/Hunter) top 5, they could trade down from 8 with Boston, take Alexander @ 14 & Hero @ 20 or use up one of the picks on a boom/bust target, where if he busts, it's 1 out of 3.



Conley is worth a mid first at this point. If he was just beginning his prime and lack a history of injuries, he probably be worth a top five at least. Any scenario can happen if the conditions are met. We will have to wait it out until late next month when the Draft Lottery takes place.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#7 » by Whole Truth » Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:56 am

SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:I was thinking about the Suns situation.

They're most likely targeting Morant atop the draft, what happens if they miss out on him?. They have a tone of wing depth on their roster, do they trade off their wing depth for a potential replacement? do they reach on Garland?

Would they consider trading their 2019 lotto selection for Conley if they miss out on Zion/Morant?. I think they potentially would.

Hypothetically, Grizz might be able to net a wing with the Suns pick & White/Garland/Alexander at 8 with their own pick where it wouldn't be as much of a reach. Maybe Grizz get them to eat a bit of Conley's salary in the process as they have no real max contracts … Maybe they're a trade down target?

Another scenario if Conley could net the Suns pick, where Grizz draft say (Johnson/Barret/Hunter) top 5, they could trade down from 8 with Boston, take Alexander @ 14 & Hero @ 20 or use up one of the picks on a boom/bust target, where if he busts, it's 1 out of 3.



Conley is worth a mid first at this point. If he was just beginning his prime and lack a history of injuries, he probably be worth a top five at least. Any scenario can happen if the conditions are met. We will have to wait it out until late next month when the Draft Lottery takes place.


That may be his perceived individual value, which can vary to any given individual but value is also relative to a teams situation.

Suns are desperate for a PG & veteran leadership. Outside of Morant, there's only wing players atop the draft. Suns would have to either select a wing to their already deep rotation, trade down for the next best PG or over reach for one. They most likely won't manage to sign a PG in FA close to or better than Conley, which leaves trade as a potential alternative. (Who's potentially available in trade close to Conley's value?)

Hypothetical Suns options from everything that I've read since last year.

- Attempt to sign Delon, Rozier as FA's who I believe are both restricted.
- Trade down to draft one of the available PG's after Morant.
- Trade someone projected top 5 like Barret, Hachimura, Hunter if they miss out on Zion/Morant for Conley.

What I've read, most Memphis fans have labelled this a weak draft. If available, Conley is most likely the Suns best option draft, FA or trade to add a quality PG at a position of need for them.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#8 » by SD2042 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:06 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:I was thinking about the Suns situation.

They're most likely targeting Morant atop the draft, what happens if they miss out on him?. They have a tone of wing depth on their roster, do they trade off their wing depth for a potential replacement? do they reach on Garland?

Would they consider trading their 2019 lotto selection for Conley if they miss out on Zion/Morant?. I think they potentially would.

Hypothetically, Grizz might be able to net a wing with the Suns pick & White/Garland/Alexander at 8 with their own pick where it wouldn't be as much of a reach. Maybe Grizz get them to eat a bit of Conley's salary in the process as they have no real max contracts … Maybe they're a trade down target?

Another scenario if Conley could net the Suns pick, where Grizz draft say (Johnson/Barret/Hunter) top 5, they could trade down from 8 with Boston, take Alexander @ 14 & Hero @ 20 or use up one of the picks on a boom/bust target, where if he busts, it's 1 out of 3.



Conley is worth a mid first at this point. If he was just beginning his prime and lack a history of injuries, he probably be worth a top five at least. Any scenario can happen if the conditions are met. We will have to wait it out until late next month when the Draft Lottery takes place.


That may be his perceived individual value, which can vary to any given individual but value is also relative to a teams situation.

Suns are desperate for a PG & veteran leadership. Outside of Morant, there's only wing players atop the draft. Suns would have to either select a wing to their already deep rotation, trade down for the next best PG or over reach for one. They most likely won't manage to sign a PG in FA close to or better than Conley, which leaves trade as a potential alternative. (Who's potentially available in trade close to Conley's value?)

Hypothetical Suns options from everything that I've read since last year.

- Attempt to sign Delon, Rozier as FA's who I believe are both restricted.
- Trade down to draft one of the available PG's after Morant.
- Trade someone projected top 5 like Barret, Hachimura, Hunter if they miss out on Zion/Morant for Conley.

What I've read, most Memphis fans have labelled this a weak draft. If available, Conley is most likely the Suns best option draft, FA or trade to add a quality PG at a position of need for them.


Although the Suns need a PG, I'm not so sure MC11 fits the timeline with how young the Suns roster truly is. Plus I doubt the Grizzlies would do MC11 dirty by trading him to a team much worse than the Grizzzlies are currently. If I'm the Suns, I would look to either drafting Ja Morent or Coby White as your options. Another option to look into is to get some weight off the roster. Perhaps very similar to what the Kings did a few years ago when they traded Carl Landry and Jason Thompson to the Sixers. The Sixers had more cap room for the Kings to off load their financial cap at the time. If the Suns use this method, they can use the new cap room to get acquire a PG. Perhap a season vet like Terry Rozier or Ricky Rubio for instance. The Suns need a lot of accountability and better leadership on the roster. It starts at the top going down. The problem with the Suns organization is that it presents a lot of instability at the top management that it creates a lot of inconsistencies heading down to the coaching staff and players overall. If the Suns could ever get their sht together, maybe they might have a chance to change by going in the right direction for a change.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#9 » by Whole Truth » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:03 pm

SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
SD2042 wrote:

Conley is worth a mid first at this point. If he was just beginning his prime and lack a history of injuries, he probably be worth a top five at least. Any scenario can happen if the conditions are met. We will have to wait it out until late next month when the Draft Lottery takes place.


That may be his perceived individual value, which can vary to any given individual but value is also relative to a teams situation.

Suns are desperate for a PG & veteran leadership. Outside of Morant, there's only wing players atop the draft. Suns would have to either select a wing to their already deep rotation, trade down for the next best PG or over reach for one. They most likely won't manage to sign a PG in FA close to or better than Conley, which leaves trade as a potential alternative. (Who's potentially available in trade close to Conley's value?)

Hypothetical Suns options from everything that I've read since last year.

- Attempt to sign Delon, Rozier as FA's who I believe are both restricted.
- Trade down to draft one of the available PG's after Morant.
- Trade someone projected top 5 like Barret, Hachimura, Hunter if they miss out on Zion/Morant for Conley.

What I've read, most Memphis fans have labelled this a weak draft. If available, Conley is most likely the Suns best option draft, FA or trade to add a quality PG at a position of need for them.


Although the Suns need a PG, I'm not so sure MC11 fits the timeline with how young the Suns roster truly is. Plus I doubt the Grizzlies would do MC11 dirty by trading him to a team much worse than the Grizzzlies are currently. If I'm the Suns, I would look to either drafting Ja Morent or Coby White as your options. Another option to look into is to get some weight off the roster. Perhaps very similar to what the Kings did a few years ago when they traded Carl Landry and Jason Thompson to the Sixers. The Sixers had more cap room for the Kings to off load their financial cap at the time. If the Suns use this method, they can use the new cap room to get acquire a PG. Perhap a season vet like Terry Rozier or Ricky Rubio for instance. The Suns need a lot of accountability and better leadership on the roster. It starts at the top going down. The problem with the Suns organization is that it presents a lot of instability at the top management that it creates a lot of inconsistencies heading down to the coaching staff and players overall. If the Suns could ever get their sht together, maybe they might have a chance to change by going in the right direction for a change.


Conley is looking out for his best interest as Memphis should be looking out for theirs. Conley got a fat contract to contend, now he wants out, Memphis owe him nothing. He can do what he wants as a free agent. Other than that I see your reasoning.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#10 » by boogiesdad » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:46 pm

Challenging to trade a 30 yr old PG for equal value, unless you have a team that is trying to use him as a way to win it all. Few teams need just a PG to be in contention. I think Delon did enough at the end of the year to warrant a chance at the starting PG position, which could make a Conley move more viable, but there are still very few options out there for trades.

If we land #1 in the lottery, we get Zion and keep Conley to make a run at it again. #2 would be Morant, and a Conley move. After that, we are just looking for the best SG prospect.

Most sensible trade would have to be a draft day trade with the Lakers (post pick).
Conley for Ball and #11. (Memphis could take back one more small contract if needed)
Ball would flow into the backup roll behind Delon, and if he didn't develop a shot, he would be released after one year. At #11, we could have the Lakers pick us our starting SG, as this seems to be the range where they are all coming off the board (according to Nbadraft.net). The Lakers would be at $90M, but would have room for one more big time player to put on the team.

We could trade Conley for Wall and #6, and hope Wall can't meet the 1 year requirement, so insurance would take over his contract. If not, we are in cap hell for 3 more years.

If Indiana is looking to go to the next level, and not comfortable turning the reigns over to Holiday, then this would be a perfect opportunity to move Conley straight up for picks, as Indiana has less than $60M on the books for next year. They could trade #18 and #50 for Conley.

Miami needs a PG, but they are in cap hell. They would most likely look at #13 and players to match salary, but the package probably would not be that attractive.

Then there is Boston. If Kyrie bolts, then they would be in the need for a PG. MEM could get back the rights to the pick that they owe BOS, and another later #1 pick this year, and probably a #2 this year. In essence, 2 #1's for Conley and fillers.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#11 » by Whole Truth » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:47 pm

Outside of Lebron LA has 6 players under contract

- Ball 7m
- Ingram 5m
- Wagner 1.7m
- Kuzma 1.6m
- Hart 1.5m
- Bogna 1m

No chance Memphis will get a young player, pick & 20 something m in cap relief. It will either be Ball to dump 7m so they could add another max contract or #11 & pure cap space. They probably use Ball who has more value than the 11th & Ingram to entice NO's for Davis. - (Davis/Lebron/Conley) So if LA were to entertain a trade for Conley I think it would be the 11th & pure cap space.

Concerning Wall, his contract is an albatross,

Wall

2019 - 19m
2020 - 37m
2021 - 40m
2022 - 43m
2023 - 46m PO

Combine that financial risk with injury concerns & the fact everyone knows he & Beal don't play well together because Wall is ball dominant. The most I would offer Washington is Parsons in a salary dump for Wall & the 6th because Memphis could end up with 40m dead weight in the final 2-3yrs of his contract if not sooner. If Memphis want to take that risk for the 6th pick, I think Washington would take that salary dump to not waste Beal's prime.

Question is, would it be worth it to Memphis?

Hypothetically

Conley to LA for Ball or 11th & Cap - (# 11 Johnson + Cap)
Parsons to Washington for Wall #6 - (Wall + #6 Hunter)
Memphis #8 - potentially top 4 - (#8 Jaxson Hayes)

Jonas / (#8 Hayes) / Rabb
Jackson / Bruno / Yuta
(#6 Hunter) / Anderson / Miles
(#11 Johnson) / Holiday / Brooks
Wall / Delon / Carter

It could be, Memphis would have enough young talent in this scenario to offset the potential dead weight of Walls contract. Consolidate some of it's young depth for future assets … Rabb, Yuta, Anderson, Brooks, Holiday etc. As I mentioned in the draft topic, if it falls apart next year there are 3 PG's projected top 6 in the 2020 draft where if Wall becomes dead weight Memphis would have a shot at their future PG to offset the loss on court, if they fail to convey.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#12 » by VCfor3 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:14 pm

I think you could maybe get Ball and #11 but it would be because LAL struck out in FA and once a pick is made it loses value. We'd have no say in who the player picked at #11 was and they'd have to not look like a stud in the LAL practice facilities.

Utah is still a strong possibility for Conley. They have cap space to take him in if they waive Favors.

If Wall is traded, I don't think we qualify for the insurance. I think he has to stay with Washington for that to happen. Only saying that since there was a discussion about the insurance thing and Parsons a bit ago when it looked like he may miss a full year. He ended up coming back so it was a moot point but that was an interesting fact about the insurance policy that someone mentioned (if true).
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#13 » by Whole Truth » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:38 pm

How about this potential alternative to trading Conley!.

Memphis trade - (Bradley, Anderson, 8th pick (selected for NOs)) for (Jrue Holiday (4yrs control)).

NO's can buy out Bradley for big savings (40-50m), they net a young player in Anderson & a top 10 pick for Holiday. Perfect rebuilding package if they lose Davis.

Holiday is at his best playing off ball. Paired with Conley that would be a potent 2 way backcourt (with Delon in the mix, probably the best defensive backcourt combination in the league) to compliment what I think is a strong, deep, versatile front court of (Jonas/Noah/Rabb/Jackson/Bruno/Parsons). Basically Conley paired with Tony Allen again, without the offensive limitation.

- Jonas / Noah / Rabb - Jackson small ball 5

- Jackson / Parsons / Yuta

- Bruno / Justin Holiday / Miles

- Jrue Holiday / Brooks / Dorsey

- Conley / Delon / Carter

Either Bruno or Holiday starting at the 3, Memphis would have 4 + defenders capable of hitting the 3, complimenting Jonas offensive post game, high efficiency pnr with Jrue & Conley. This defensive squad, won't be short of offense.

Memphis would have the defensive versatility & depth of A former DPOY in Noah sharing minutes at C & Jackson for small ball situations. So they can play half court or transition, slow or fast, defend the paint or 5 out. Added bonus of fending off injury, fatigue at one of the more taxing positions in the league.

The team has quality depth along with room for internal development of not one but several young players. From Corner stone prospect Jackson (who has a very high ceiling) to Jonas & Delon who haven't hit their peaks yet & they still have the potential of making the playoffs, as is.

Helps that Jrue is under control for 4 yrs. Memphis can choose to turnover Conley's value & run Jrue at point if opportunity presents itself or if failure dictates it. Recoup value, while getting younger at point with Jrue & not lose a step building forward.

If Memphis like Jackson at the 5, Jonas forces teams to play small to take advantage of him defensively. They will compliment each other in many ways. (Jonas has shown over 7 seasons that he's the ultimate teammate, where benching him doesn't create problem on or off the court. He doesn't demand touches & he doesn't question decisions. Which is why the 3 headed centre rotation will work).

Head coach - Becky Hammond.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#14 » by Whole Truth » Wed May 1, 2019 12:44 pm

ESPN’s Zach Lowe made an interesting point on his status in a recent article.

"A player-centric version of this question that is fun to bat around with executives and agents: Who might be available — or at least gettable — that we don’t expect? I keep coming back to Aaron Gordon. The Magic designed his descending contract to make him ultra-tradable. Like Vucevic, he just doesn’t fit a long-term vision that has Bamba and Isaac starting".

If true & Gordon is a potential trade target.

First trade - (Bradley, Anderson, 2019 #8) for (Holiday)

- NO's can buyout Bradley for 40-50m in savings, they net a young player in Anderson & a top 10 pick, rebuilding package.
- Memphis land a guard that is 5th in real +/- who's younger than Conley & under control for 4yrs.

Second trade - (Conley) for (Gordon, Fultz).

- Orlando ready to contend land a top teir PG at a position of weakness, while making room for Isaac to start.
- Memphis land a talented young 23yo SF/PF who's still improving that's unselfish & team oriented.

Jonas / Noah / Rabb
Jackson / Parsons / Yute
Gordon / Bruno / Miles
Justin. H / Delon / Brooks
Jrue. H / Fultz / Carter

Up tempo Small ball switch everything rotation - Jackson / Gordon / Bruno / Justin Holiday or Delon / Jrue Holiday

I'm unsure of the offensive capability of that potential small ball rotation but sure it would be among the leagues best, if not best defensive lineup. Capable of guarding 5 out without losing rim protection & or rebounding.

Bully ball rotation - Jonas / Jackson / Gordon / Justin Holiday or Bruno / Jrue Holiday

In reference to my post above where I pair Jrue with Conley, this is the young alternative to that trade option as Jrue would be the oldest starter at 28. A team IMO capable of making the playoffs as constructed, everyone outside of Jrue still has room for internal growth & controlled to grow together before any lengthy contracts are needed. By then Parsons obligation would be off the roster. Who knows, maybe even Fultz puts his game together as a boom bust trade target which would allow Memphis to move Jrue to off guard.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#15 » by VCfor3 » Thu May 2, 2019 12:17 am

Whole Truth wrote:ESPN’s Zach Lowe made an interesting point on his status in a recent article.

"A player-centric version of this question that is fun to bat around with executives and agents: Who might be available — or at least gettable — that we don’t expect? I keep coming back to Aaron Gordon. The Magic designed his descending contract to make him ultra-tradable. Like Vucevic, he just doesn’t fit a long-term vision that has Bamba and Isaac starting".

If true & Gordon is a potential trade target.

First trade - (Bradley, Anderson, 2019 #8) for (Holiday)

- NO's can buyout Bradley for 40-50m in savings, they net a young player in Anderson & a top 10 pick, rebuilding package.
- Memphis land a guard that is 5th in real +/- who's younger than Conley & under control for 4yrs.

Second trade - (Conley) for (Gordon, Fultz).

- Orlando ready to contend land a top teir PG at a position of weakness, while making room for Isaac to start.
- Memphis land a talented young 23yo SF/PF who's still improving that's unselfish & team oriented.

Jonas / Noah / Rabb
Jackson / Parsons / Yute
Gordon / Bruno / Miles
Justin. H / Delon / Brooks
Jrue. H / Fultz / Carter

Up tempo Small ball switch everything rotation - Jackson / Gordon / Bruno / Justin Holiday or Delon / Jrue Holiday

I'm unsure of the offensive capability of that potential small ball rotation but sure it would be among the leagues best, if not best defensive lineup. Capable of guarding 5 out without losing rim protection & or rebounding.

Bully ball rotation - Jonas / Jackson / Gordon / Justin Holiday or Bruno / Jrue Holiday

In reference to my post above where I pair Jrue with Conley, this is the young alternative to that trade option as Jrue would be the oldest starter at 28. A team IMO capable of making the playoffs as constructed, everyone outside of Jrue still has room for internal growth & controlled to grow together before any lengthy contracts are needed. By then Parsons obligation would be off the roster. Who knows, maybe even Fultz puts his game together as a boom bust trade target which would allow Memphis to move Jrue to off guard.


I'm hoping Memphis doesn't go for Jrue just because I don't think our team is good enough to do anything more than be a 1st round playoff exit. We'd end up on a treadmill and likely not be able to put much young talent around JJJ similar to CHA and Kemba. I think a Gordon for Conley type trade has legs though. We just have to slot Gordon in as mainly a 4. They tried playing him at the 3 and it went terribly. Anderson actually would be a decent compliment to Gordon since Gordon could do his thing and Anderson would take the harder defensive assignment.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#16 » by Whole Truth » Thu May 2, 2019 6:03 am

VCfor3 wrote:I'm hoping Memphis doesn't go for Jrue just because I don't think our team is good enough to do anything more than be a 1st round playoff exit. We'd end up on a treadmill and likely not be able to put much young talent around JJJ similar to CHA and Kemba. I think a Gordon for Conley type trade has legs though. We just have to slot Gordon in as mainly a 4. They tried playing him at the 3 and it went terribly. Anderson actually would be a decent compliment to Gordon since Gordon could do his thing and Anderson would take the harder defensive assignment.


Your opinion is exactly what Raptors fans were saying when they wanted to tank for Wiggins. The consensus was the roster would not be anything more than a capped out treadmill team lacking talent that must tank for the next superstar, Wiggins. Masai came in with the same opinion & attempted to blow up BC's 2 yr mini tank, after Bosh walked, for Canada's own. A move thankfully prevented by Dolan stepping in & nixing his GM's trade of THJ for Lowry. Raptors ended up making the playoffs that same year with 47 wins, pushed 7 games against Brooklyn in a 1st round exit. Only to get badly swept by Washington the following year. Patience is a virtue & consistency/chemistry is key ... Masai didn't fire his coach after the sweep & didn't attempt to break up the roster that seemed to take a step back, as he initially wanted when he first arrived. Instead, he added a couple depth options & Raptors followed up the sweep, with an ECF run. Now, after a 6 yr up & down process, they are favored to come out the East, without ever lingering in the lotto or drafting a superstar.

I view the trade for Jrue as asset accumulation as much as a move towards winning. Under control for 4 yrs he holds value as much if not more than the uncertainty of the 8th pick given up, in what Memphis fans believe to be a weak draft class. Also, Jrue helping to create a winning environment props up teams assets & perception, not only to players on roster but potential FA's, which is another avenue towards building assets. Memphis could at any point flip Jrue's value & potentially end up with a better return than what they originally gave up.

For argument sake, lets say you're right & this team is a first round exit at best next year. I ask why would you think that's a negative or trade mark of a treadmill team?.

For me, a treadmill, is stagnation. Potentially making the playoffs, as is, this roster is not lacking in potential for internal growth with 3 players under 23 with considerable upside in Jackson, Gordon & potentially Bruno. Even Jonas at 27 is only now starting to come into his own & could very easily be a 20 & 10 player for Memphs. Anyone, to all taking leaps in their games changes the ceiling of what you currently perceive to be it's limitation. The potential for that growth cannot be quantified. Then there's consideration for recognition & opportunity of trade to consider.

Concerning Gordon, I know he's better in the post & in transition but when Orlando was asking him to play on the perimeter, he was lacking consistency in his range & the ability to take his man off the dribble while they were also relying on him to be a primary offensive option. With Jonas, Jrue on the court, they'd carry the offense. Gordon is an excellent facilitator with improving consisitency in his shot. When playing PF in small ball, Memphis can then ask more out of him offensively. I'd bet that defensive unit would be getting out in transition plenty off of stops & steals.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#17 » by VCfor3 » Fri May 10, 2019 11:54 pm

Joe at GBB is doing a series on possible Conley trades. I think some of the trades are too good for Memphis but it is interesting. There is a part 5 coming as well as an epilogue discussing which trades he likes best. There is a link to the first three parts at the top of the article:

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2019/5/10/18564156/the-value-of-mike-conley-western-contenders-utah-jazz-denver-nuggets-nba-trade-memphis-grizzlies
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#18 » by Whole Truth » Sat May 11, 2019 3:21 am

VCfor3 wrote:Joe at GBB is doing a series on possible Conley trades. I think some of the trades are too good for Memphis but it is interesting. There is a part 5 coming as well as an epilogue discussing which trades he likes best. There is a link to the first three parts at the top of the article:

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2019/5/10/18564156/the-value-of-mike-conley-western-contenders-utah-jazz-denver-nuggets-nba-trade-memphis-grizzlies


Of the trades mentioned, I think the (Ball, #11 & 20 something mil in cap relief) is the best on all fronts. Young potential star player, decent pick & sizeable cap relief. The other trades don't have that mixed benefit.

With that deal, Memphis could potentially draft Hayes at #8, Johnson at #11, have Ball replace Conley at point to help convey the 2020 pick & shed 20+ m in salary. They end up with a defensive centre with high upside that could compliment Jonas & 3J, a 2 way wing with considerable offensive potential, a replacement PG with star potential, while reducing cost.

If Knicks land Durant, 3 teams in need of a PG have rebuilding assets that would be trying to take advantage of a small window of contention that could drive up Conley's stock. LA, Boston, NY.

If Kyrie walks & Boston doesn't blow it up, they would most likely want to dump Haward's contract to match salaries. IMO he's a negative player at 30m. I'd consider (Hayward, #14 2019 & Memphis pick back) for Conley if Johnson is still on board at 14 but it wouldn't be my top choice because that Memphis pick could end up in the teens which would make the deal 2 mid level picks & Haywards negative contract.

If NY lands Durant but fails to sign a FA PG. If they don't land Zion, like LA, I don't think they will look to develop that top pick. They will most likely target Davis with it but if he goes to LA or Boston .., NY might consider trading that top pick outside of Zion for Conley. Basically I'm suggesting JA for Conley. A developing PG for a win now top teir PG to pair with Durant.

Dark horse trade would be Orlando for Gordon.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#19 » by VCfor3 » Sat May 11, 2019 2:41 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Joe at GBB is doing a series on possible Conley trades. I think some of the trades are too good for Memphis but it is interesting. There is a part 5 coming as well as an epilogue discussing which trades he likes best. There is a link to the first three parts at the top of the article:

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2019/5/10/18564156/the-value-of-mike-conley-western-contenders-utah-jazz-denver-nuggets-nba-trade-memphis-grizzlies


Of the trades mentioned, I think the (Ball, #11 & 20 something mil in cap relief) is the best on all fronts. Young potential star player, decent pick & sizeable cap relief. The other trades don't have that mixed benefit.

With that deal, Memphis could potentially draft Hayes at #8, Johnson at #11, have Ball replace Conley at point to help convey the 2020 pick & shed 20+ m in salary. They end up with a defensive centre with high upside that could compliment Jonas & 3J, a 2 way wing with considerable offensive potential, a replacement PG with star potential, while reducing cost.

If Knicks land Durant, 3 teams in need of a PG have rebuilding assets that would be trying to take advantage of a small window of contention that could drive up Conley's stock. LA, Boston, NY.

If Kyrie walks & Boston doesn't blow it up, they would most likely want to dump Haward's contract to match salaries. IMO he's a negative player at 30m. I'd consider (Hayward, #14 2019 & Memphis pick back) for Conley if Johnson is still on board at 14 but it wouldn't be my top choice because that Memphis pick could end up in the teens which would make the deal 2 mid level picks & Haywards negative contract.

If NY lands Durant but fails to sign a FA PG. If they don't land Zion, like LA, I don't think they will look to develop that top pick. They will most likely target Davis with it but if he goes to LA or Boston .., NY might consider trading that top pick outside of Zion for Conley. Basically I'm suggesting JA for Conley. A developing PG for a win now top teir PG to pair with Durant.

Dark horse trade would be Orlando for Gordon.


I like the Denver trade too. Harris and a pick is a solid return.

Hayes is a good prospect, but if JJJ is our future center I'd rather take a stab at someone else if we feel they are on par with Hayes. If Hayes is BPA you take him but I have other guys I'd prefer at 8. As for the lakers pick, we wouldn't get to make that selection. The Lakers only do that deal if they strike out in FA which means they would have already made their selection. Hopefully they take someone we like.

As for the Boston deal, I seriously doubt our pick is in the teens if we move Conley. Wright is fine but I think our offense will still take a few steps back and keep us within the bottom 10 teams.
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Re: MC11 Officially Requests For a Trade 

Post#20 » by Whole Truth » Mon May 13, 2019 3:52 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Joe at GBB is doing a series on possible Conley trades. I think some of the trades are too good for Memphis but it is interesting. There is a part 5 coming as well as an epilogue discussing which trades he likes best. There is a link to the first three parts at the top of the article:

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2019/5/10/18564156/the-value-of-mike-conley-western-contenders-utah-jazz-denver-nuggets-nba-trade-memphis-grizzlies


Of the trades mentioned, I think the (Ball, #11 & 20 something mil in cap relief) is the best on all fronts. Young potential star player, decent pick & sizeable cap relief. The other trades don't have that mixed benefit.

With that deal, Memphis could potentially draft Hayes at #8, Johnson at #11, have Ball replace Conley at point to help convey the 2020 pick & shed 20+ m in salary. They end up with a defensive centre with high upside that could compliment Jonas & 3J, a 2 way wing with considerable offensive potential, a replacement PG with star potential, while reducing cost.

If Knicks land Durant, 3 teams in need of a PG have rebuilding assets that would be trying to take advantage of a small window of contention that could drive up Conley's stock. LA, Boston, NY.

If Kyrie walks & Boston doesn't blow it up, they would most likely want to dump Haward's contract to match salaries. IMO he's a negative player at 30m. I'd consider (Hayward, #14 2019 & Memphis pick back) for Conley if Johnson is still on board at 14 but it wouldn't be my top choice because that Memphis pick could end up in the teens which would make the deal 2 mid level picks & Haywards negative contract.

If NY lands Durant but fails to sign a FA PG. If they don't land Zion, like LA, I don't think they will look to develop that top pick. They will most likely target Davis with it but if he goes to LA or Boston .., NY might consider trading that top pick outside of Zion for Conley. Basically I'm suggesting JA for Conley. A developing PG for a win now top teir PG to pair with Durant.

Dark horse trade would be Orlando for Gordon.


I like the Denver trade too. Harris and a pick is a solid return.

Hayes is a good prospect, but if JJJ is our future center I'd rather take a stab at someone else if we feel they are on par with Hayes. If Hayes is BPA you take him but I have other guys I'd prefer at 8. As for the lakers pick, we wouldn't get to make that selection. The Lakers only do that deal if they strike out in FA which means they would have already made their selection. Hopefully they take someone we like.

As for the Boston deal, I seriously doubt our pick is in the teens if we move Conley. Wright is fine but I think our offense will still take a few steps back and keep us within the bottom 10 teams.


I hope Memphis don't pigeon hold 3J as a modern day 5 only. I have him down as a stretch 4 with the versatility to play the 5 in small ball or 3 in bully ball. I think your team is in a good position to have a very deep & versatile front court to advantage teams which would give a good coach a clear advantage in most, if not all scenarios if they both keep Jonas & select Hayes. If it came down to Garland or Hayes at 8, I'd take Hayes upside even though I project Jonas starting next to 3J. Especially if Memphis is set on dealing Conley, there's 3 top rated PG's expected to go top 5 next year, where Memphis pick is top 6 protected. They can potentially pair Jonas/Hayes, 3J with 2020 (Hampton, Anthony or Meldon). Only alternative toss up at 8 for me would be a potential wing over Hayes but with Johnson in the 11th pick range the LA deal, lands both my preferred choices. Value is relative to perception of what one values ...

Don't know if you have been following the Raptors in this playoffs but Nurse has gone big with a Gasol, Ibaka, Pascal front court to counter Philly playing big … An equivalent to that would be 3J at the 3.

In 3 years when both young bigs are coming into their own Memphis will be at a decision point with a 30 yo Jonas. They can choose to keep him as a quality backup, offensive pop off the bench or they can flip him for value as an asset. Who knows, he may still be the starting C. Either way, the front court would be solidified for all potential scenario's for years to come with the options to adjust as needed. You catch more opportunity, with a wider net of possibility.

When Raptors made their first ECF playoff run, the Centre depth & compliment they had with Jonas & Bizz played a huge factor in that accomplishment. Both were big contributors to that success, while DeRozan & Lowry posted historic playoff performance lows. I've seen Memphis fans claims that Jonas is just a bench big, non playoff contributor & that is simply not true.

As a matter of fact, Jonas has started 6yrs on a 50 win team since his rookie season & is a bigger reason for that success than some will admit despite playing limited mins. He was split starting with Ibaka this year against teams featuring true big men with Pascals emergence & Ibaka's decline at the 4. When Jonas went down to injury against GS, Raptors played slightly above 500 ball & failed to beat those same teams, then he was dealt at a soft part of the schedule. Ibaka got a lot of credit for playing with the improved starting unit. Not mentioned is, Jonas was +23 playing with that starting unit in 140 mins of play. That success was played off by his detractors as selective benefit against non top teams. His offense was also necessary for a bench unit that was struggling to score & find an identity while the starters didn't need another scorer. Ibaka praised for his fit with the starters, struggled in his minutes off the bench.

Take a look at the splits.

Ibaka starting - 113 Ortg / 108 Drtg + 10
Ibaka bench - 104 Ortg / 104 Drtg - 4.9

Jonas starting w Raptors - 123 Ortg / 104 Drtg
Jonas off the bench w Raptors - 120 Ortg / 102 Drtg

5man lineup starters

Jonas w Pascal/Kawhi/Green/Lowry = +23.8 in 140 mins.
Ibaka w Pascal/Kawhi/Green/Lowry = +10 in 540 mins.

Notice which players production dips when not playing with quality teammates. Injury played a factor in the minutes played/shared. Ibaka struggling with the bench, is part reason why Jonas was "needed" to come off the bench to provide offense for the struggling bench unit. This is why Memphis were shocked at what Jonas was actually capable of, under-rated impact.

With Kawhi averaging 35 pts on 53% shooting while also being an upgrade defensively over Derozan, Philly should have never taken Raptors to a 7 game buzzer beater. Philly didn't even bother defending Gasol, they had an undersized wing Harris guarding him in the post (Something they could have never done with Jonas), they were even switching guards onto him without fear of being post up & were as a result able to seamlessly switch onto Lowry to help contain him as well. Gasol has nice passing ability but it was mixed in with a lot of deferring of wide open shots that Philly didn't even bother guarding. He was at his best defensively not being backed down in the post but when Orlando & Philly were stretching him out & had him moving they were getting wide open shots all over the court where neither opponent are particular good shooting teams. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see them beating the Bucks with Lopez capable of stretching out Gasol. Think it's quite possible at some point in that series Raptors will have to ask Ibaka to start. Who by the way was the Raptor big that stepped up in game 7. Reason, why Embiid was + 84 in this series over his replacement being matched up primarily against Gasol, despite not doing much individually outside of his game 4 performance.

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