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Potential Offseason Moves

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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#421 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:41 am

SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Adrian Wojnarowski

@wojespn


The Oklahoma City Thunder have agreed to trade Russell Westbrook to the Houston Rockets for Chris Paul, first-round picks in 2024 and 2026, pick swaps in 2021 and 2025, league sources tell ESPN.



Both WB and Harden will be fighting for the ball. Although they are good friends, they both will be putting their egos and the Rockets franchise to the test. Essentially this could be the prequel of "Grumpy Old Men" This time, the movie will be call : Grumpy Young Men" starring James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Coming to theaters in October. Look for the trailers of the movie in September.


Possibly.

However it should be noted, OKC had very poor spacing for a downhill player like Westbrook. If I'm Houston, I'm having him attack the paint & kick to the many shooters Houston have in relation to the Thunders roster. Westbrook is going to put far more pressure on teams to collapse than Paul, which should make Harden more dangerous if he's willing to play more off ball. Not take the ball out of his hands but I think it's a workable situation.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#422 » by SD2042 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:07 am

Whole Truth wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Adrian Wojnarowski

@wojespn


The Oklahoma City Thunder have agreed to trade Russell Westbrook to the Houston Rockets for Chris Paul, first-round picks in 2024 and 2026, pick swaps in 2021 and 2025, league sources tell ESPN.



Both WB and Harden will be fighting for the ball. Although they are good friends, they both will be putting their egos and the Rockets franchise to the test. Essentially this could be the prequel of "Grumpy Old Men" This time, the movie will be call : Grumpy Young Men" starring James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Coming to theaters in October. Look for the trailers of the movie in September.


Possibly.

However it should be noted, OKC had very poor spacing for a downhill player like Westbrook. If I'm Houston, I'm having him attack the paint & kick to the many shooters Houston have in relation to the Thunders roster. Westbrook is going to put far more pressure on teams to collapse than Paul, which should make Harden more dangerous if he's willing to play more off ball. Not take the ball out of his hands but I think it's a workable situation.



For their sakes, hopefully it does. If WB gets in his head to play heroball and shoots them into a bad situation, they are in trouble.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#423 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:25 am

SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
SD2042 wrote:

Both WB and Harden will be fighting for the ball. Although they are good friends, they both will be putting their egos and the Rockets franchise to the test. Essentially this could be the prequel of "Grumpy Old Men" This time, the movie will be call : Grumpy Young Men" starring James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Coming to theaters in October. Look for the trailers of the movie in September.


Possibly.

However it should be noted, OKC had very poor spacing for a downhill player like Westbrook. If I'm Houston, I'm having him attack the paint & kick to the many shooters Houston have in relation to the Thunders roster. Westbrook is going to put far more pressure on teams to collapse than Paul, which should make Harden more dangerous if he's willing to play more off ball. Not take the ball out of his hands but I think it's a workable situation.



For their sakes, hopefully it does. If WB gets in his head to play heroball and shoots them into a bad situation, they are in trouble.


They were already in trouble with Paul. They tried all how to downplay his dust up with Harden as nobody really wanted him. This was a way out, still required 2 picks & 2 swaps to get it done despite similar monetary value.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#424 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:36 am

I think their will be a part 2 to this trade. As rumored, Houston was looking for a 3rd team & Woj is reporting that OKC might use picks to dump Paul.

Memphis trade - (Iggy) for (Capela)
Memphis trade - (Anderson, Capela) for (Wiggins, OKC FRP/s)

Minnesota trade (Wiggins, Teague, Dieng) for (Paul, Capela, Tucker)

OKC trade - (Paul, Adams) for (Dieng, Teague, Anderson, Gordon)

Houston trade - (Capela) for (Iggy)
Houston trade - (Gordon, Tucker) for (Adams)
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#425 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:28 pm

Adrian Wojnarowski

@wojespn

Houston hoped to find third-team destination preferable to Chris Paul, but ultimately leaves it OKC to execute next step once Presti confers w/ CP3 agent Leon Rose. Miami remains possibility for Paul (3 years, $124M) -- and OKC obviously has picks to incentivize deal, if needed.

While Heat seems to be the preferred destination, IMO

Wiggins & one of Teague/Dieng could make sense for Minnesota to trade for Paul, they'd get a more productive player at a position of need for = money, with OKC providing the pick assets in trade to move the negative contracts, so they could potentially keep Culver.

I'd take on Wiggins if he came with pick assets from OKC, Memphis could consolidate their forward position with a reclamation target that comes with the right amount of incentive.

Iggy could be a nice fit with Houston.

PS' - Dump Allen in trade.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#426 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:20 pm

Ross
@LegionHoopsRoss

There were some reports of the Cavs trying to get involved in a Thunder, Heat trade.

Source says the Cavs are targeting Thunder big man Steven Adams.
https://
twitter.com/legionhoopsros
s/status/1149035751407017990

If Paul to Heat is a possibility, are Cavs interested in Adams or facilitating cap space in a trade (JR. Smith) for assets.

- Adams to Houston.
- Paul to Heat.
- Smith non guaranteed to OKC.
- Capela for Iggy.
- Memphis trade Capela into Kings cap space, for 11-12m practical cap space.

- (Anderson, Solomon Hill, cap space) for (Wiggins, 2020 FRP 1-3 protected)
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#427 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:47 pm

pickuphoop
@pickuphoop

Woj saying that Chris Paul to Miami is a deal Oklahoma City is trying to get done as soon as possible.

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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#428 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:50 pm

The Houston Rockets and Los Angeles Clippers are attempting to acquire Andre Iguodala from the Memphis Grizzlies, reports Sam Amick of The Athletic.

From realgm front page
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#429 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:57 pm

If Houston is interested in trading for Iggy, it would have to be one of Capela or Gordon financially for the trade to be legal.

Houston trade - (Capela, Tucker) 23m for (Adams) 25m

Houston trade - (Gordon) 14.5m for (Iggy) 17m
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#430 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:00 pm

Sam Amick of The Athletic has the details:

Priority No. 1? Secure a deal for former Warriors sixth man Andre Iguodala, who was traded by the Warriors to Memphis on June 30 to make room for D’Angelo Russell in the Kevin Durant sign-and-trade with Brooklyn.
The Rockets have continued their push to land the 35-year-old via trade, with the Clippers also known to be among the most serious suitors. They are also hoping to add veteran big man Tyson Chandler.


Marc Stein

@TheSteinLine


There is some belief within league circles that the Grizzlies are prepared to take Andre Iguodala into the season unless they receive a trade offer featuring a future first-round pick

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https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-trading-andre-iguodala-rockets-no-1-priority
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#431 » by red96 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:38 pm

Whole Truth wrote:If Houston is interested in trading for Iggy, it would have to be one of Capela or Gordon financially for the trade to be legal.

Houston trade - (Capela, Tucker) 23m for (Adams) 25m

Houston trade - (Gordon) 14.5m for (Iggy) 17m

Not true. The Rockets have both Shumpert and Nene they can S&T at max $13.2m and $5m, with only the 1st year as guaranteed. Making them effectively expiring contracts. Shumpert alone would be enough to match Iggy's contract.
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#432 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:17 pm

red96 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:If Houston is interested in trading for Iggy, it would have to be one of Capela or Gordon financially for the trade to be legal.

Houston trade - (Capela, Tucker) 23m for (Adams) 25m

Houston trade - (Gordon) 14.5m for (Iggy) 17m

Not true. The Rockets have both Shumpert and Nene they can S&T at max $13.2m and $5m, with only the 1st year as guaranteed. Making them effectively expiring contracts. Shumpert alone would be enough to match Iggy's contract.


Didn't see the cap holds.

A potential sign & trade. I guess that would make more sense if Grizz are looking for a FRP. I was thinking a 3rd team might be involved.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#433 » by red96 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:59 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
red96 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:If Houston is interested in trading for Iggy, it would have to be one of Capela or Gordon financially for the trade to be legal.

Houston trade - (Capela, Tucker) 23m for (Adams) 25m

Houston trade - (Gordon) 14.5m for (Iggy) 17m

Not true. The Rockets have both Shumpert and Nene they can S&T at max $13.2m and $5m, with only the 1st year as guaranteed. Making them effectively expiring contracts. Shumpert alone would be enough to match Iggy's contract.


Didn't see the cap holds.

A potential sign & trade. I guess that would make more sense if Grizz are looking for a FRP. I was thinking a 3rd team might be involved.
Im sure Shumpert would be involved. Gordon is valuable to Houston and Capela(or Gordon+ frp) would be a gross overpay for Iggy.
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
-baki "the Rockets fan"
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#434 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:39 pm

red96 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
red96 wrote:Not true. The Rockets have both Shumpert and Nene they can S&T at max $13.2m and $5m, with only the 1st year as guaranteed. Making them effectively expiring contracts. Shumpert alone would be enough to match Iggy's contract.


Didn't see the cap holds.

A potential sign & trade. I guess that would make more sense if Grizz are looking for a FRP. I was thinking a 3rd team might be involved.
Im sure Shumpert would be involved. Gordon is valuable to Houston and Capela(or Gordon+ frp) would be a gross overpay for Iggy.


I wasn't suggesting Gordon & a FRP, I was thinking he could be flipped for a FRP in a multi team deal.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#435 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:44 pm

On the Memphis Board, they were posting that it might be possible for Memphis to get Kabengele from the Clippers.

I don't know if that is the case. If it is, that would be the incentive deal I'd take for Iggy.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#436 » by red96 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:15 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
red96 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
Didn't see the cap holds.

A potential sign & trade. I guess that would make more sense if Grizz are looking for a FRP. I was thinking a 3rd team might be involved.
Im sure Shumpert would be involved. Gordon is valuable to Houston and Capela(or Gordon+ frp) would be a gross overpay for Iggy.


I wasn't suggesting Gordon & a FRP, I was thinking he could be flipped for a FRP in a multi team deal.
Iggy was only 5.7ppg 3.7rpg 3.2apg last season. He will be a year older(36) and expected to drop even more, making $17m(overpaid). He isn't worth moving Gordon(16/2.2/2) by himself either.
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
-baki "the Rockets fan"
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#437 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:42 pm

red96 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
red96 wrote:Im sure Shumpert would be involved. Gordon is valuable to Houston and Capela(or Gordon+ frp) would be a gross overpay for Iggy.


I wasn't suggesting Gordon & a FRP, I was thinking he could be flipped for a FRP in a multi team deal.
Iggy was only 5.7ppg 3.7rpg 3.2apg last season. He will be a year older(36) and expected to drop even more, making $17m(overpaid). He isn't worth moving Gordon(16/2.2/2) by himself either.


Iggy's 6 points is on 4.4 Attempts PG (50%). Gordon's 16 is on 13.8 Attempts PG (40%).

3.7 rbp, 3.2 apg in (23 mins) is considerably better than 2.2 rpg, 2 apg in (31mins)

Where's your defensive value estimation?.

Iggy >>>>>>>>> Gordon defensively. Houston can put Iggy on the apposing teams best wing/forward to compensate defensively for Harden & WB, can they do that with Gordon?.

Value is also relative to fit, need & preference. Yes Iggy is older & declining but he would be the perfect experienced role player that fits their SF hole. Combined with Tucker at PF, their forwards could defend & stretch the floor for 2 scoring guards without demanding touches to be effective. There's a reason Houston made Iggy a trade priority. With one ball Iggy defending & taking what comes to him at 50%, is better than Gordon being a defensive liability, hoisting 14 shots on 40% efficiency with 2 supposed ball hogs. This is my estimated value of the trade swap.

That said, I think Houston could use Gordon as their 6th man, to not want to include him but if I were Houston & Memphis were asking Gordon for Iggy, I'd make that swap. Much easier to pick up a 40% non defensive volume shooter off the bench than net an intelligent 3&D glue SF to fill a hole in the starting rotation, if you have championship aspirations.

Iggy is in demand - Denver, Mavs, LA, Clippers, Houston all think he could be their missing piece.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#438 » by red96 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:47 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
red96 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
I wasn't suggesting Gordon & a FRP, I was thinking he could be flipped for a FRP in a multi team deal.
Iggy was only 5.7ppg 3.7rpg 3.2apg last season. He will be a year older(36) and expected to drop even more, making $17m(overpaid). He isn't worth moving Gordon(16/2.2/2) by himself either.


Iggy's 6 points is on 4.4 Attempts PG (50%). Gordon's 16 is on 13.8 Attempts PG (40%).

3.7 rbp, 3.2 apg in (23 mins) is considerably better than 2.2 rpg, 2 apg in (31mins)

Where's your defensive value estimation?.

Iggy >>>>>>>>> Gordon defensively. Houston can put Iggy on the apposing teams best wing/forward to compensate defensively for Harden & WB, can they do that with Gordon?.

Value is also relative to fit, need & preference. Yes Iggy is older & declining but he would be the perfect experienced role player that fits their SF hole. Combined with Tucker at PF, their forwards could defend & stretch the floor for 2 scoring guards without demanding touches to be effective. There's a reason Houston made Iggy a trade priority. With one ball Iggy defending & taking what comes to him at 50%, is better than Gordon being a defensive liability, hoisting 14 shots on 40% efficiency with 2 supposed ball hogs. This is my estimated value of the trade swap.

That said, I think Houston could use Gordon as their 6th man, to not want to include him but if I were Houston & Memphis were asking Gordon for Iggy, I'd make that swap. Much easier to pick up a 40% non defensive volume shooter off the bench than net an intelligent 3&D glue SF to fill a hole in the starting rotation, if you have championship aspirations.

Iggy is in demand - Denver, Mavs, LA, Clippers, Houston all think he could be their missing piece.
Which player is the better shooter and scorer isn't debatable, so stop it. Iggy will be 36. He has to be on 20 mpg restriction and can't fill a starters role.
Gordon can, and is not a defensive liability. In fact, he was arguably the Rockets 2nd best man defender on the perimeter, after Tucker last season, but lets just say he's average, not a liability. Ask any Rockets fan. I don't blame you for not being aware of that. Gordon was also the Rockets best 2nd option in the playoffs last season. Now with Westbrook, the Rockets need his shooting even more. 20 minute of Iggy isn't worth everything Gordon provides. I doubt you'd find any Rockets fan ok with a Iggy for Gordon swswap understand your sales pitch, but It would be a lateral move at very best, while adding salary.

Players like Marvin Williams, Thabo, Bazemore, ect. were/are available for way less $, provide much of what Iggy does, and at a lower cost than what Memphis wants for him. Is love Iggy for the right price, but Thabo and Gordon> Iggy easy.
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#439 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:00 pm

There's a rumor out, that Heat would trade for Beal by taking on Wall. I'm thinking if Memphis could entice Minnesota to swap Wiggins for Wall with some kind of pick incentive.

Washington trade - (Beal, Wall) 46.2m for (Iggy, Plumlee, Anderson, Howard, Allen) 46.5m (36m expiring) buyout Iggy, Howard.

Minnesota trade - (Wiggins) 27m for (Wall, Crowder, Memphis FRP) 26.8m

Memphis trade - (Iggy, Plumlee, Anderson, Crowder, Howard, Allen, FRP) 54m for (Beal, Wiggins) 54m


Minnesota were going to overpay to address their PG situation (30m/4 for Russell). Instead they dump Wiggins, net crowder & a FRP for swapping Wall. While it's a swap of bad contracts, Wall is far more productive/impactfull than Wiggins filling a hole for Minnesota but because Memphis want Beal, Minnesota offers pick value to give the deal incentive. With Memphis trading expiring contracts, Wizards get a clean financial slate for Beal.

Jonas/Noah
3J/Clarke
Wiggins/Jackson
Beal/Brooks
Ja/Jones
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#440 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:20 pm

red96 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
red96 wrote: Iggy was only 5.7ppg 3.7rpg 3.2apg last season. He will be a year older(36) and expected to drop even more, making $17m(overpaid). He isn't worth moving Gordon(16/2.2/2) by himself either.


Iggy's 6 points is on 4.4 Attempts PG (50%). Gordon's 16 is on 13.8 Attempts PG (40%).

3.7 rbp, 3.2 apg in (23 mins) is considerably better than 2.2 rpg, 2 apg in (31mins)

Where's your defensive value estimation?.

Iggy >>>>>>>>> Gordon defensively. Houston can put Iggy on the apposing teams best wing/forward to compensate defensively for Harden & WB, can they do that with Gordon?.

Value is also relative to fit, need & preference. Yes Iggy is older & declining but he would be the perfect experienced role player that fits their SF hole. Combined with Tucker at PF, their forwards could defend & stretch the floor for 2 scoring guards without demanding touches to be effective. There's a reason Houston made Iggy a trade priority. With one ball Iggy defending & taking what comes to him at 50%, is better than Gordon being a defensive liability, hoisting 14 shots on 40% efficiency with 2 supposed ball hogs. This is my estimated value of the trade swap.

That said, I think Houston could use Gordon as their 6th man, to not want to include him but if I were Houston & Memphis were asking Gordon for Iggy, I'd make that swap. Much easier to pick up a 40% non defensive volume shooter off the bench than net an intelligent 3&D glue SF to fill a hole in the starting rotation, if you have championship aspirations.

Iggy is in demand - Denver, Mavs, LA, Clippers, Houston all think he could be their missing piece.
Which player is the better shooter and scorer isn't debatable, so stop it. Iggy will be 36. He has to be on 20 mpg restriction and can't fill a starters role.
Gordon can, and is not a defensive liability. In fact, he was arguably the Rockets 2nd best man defender on the perimeter, after Tucker last season, but lets just say he's average, not a liability. Ask any Rockets fan. I don't blame you for not being aware of that. Gordon was also the Rockets best 2nd option in the playoffs last season. Now with Westbrook, the Rockets need his shooting even more. 20 minute of Iggy isn't worth everything Gordon provides. I doubt you'd find any Rockets fan ok with a Iggy for Gordon swswap understand your sales pitch, but It would be a lateral move at very best, while adding salary.

Players like Marvin Williams, Thabo, Bazemore, ect. were/are available for way less $, provide much of what Iggy does, and at a lower cost than what Memphis wants for him. Is love Iggy for the right price, but Thabo and Gordon> Iggy easy.


Didn't claim Iggy was the better scorer, I claimed he was lower usage, higher efficiency, taking what's given to him.

I wasn't aware that Gordon improved defensively, he was one of the worse defenders not to long ago. Point taken.

Agree that WB would benefit from better spacing. (Teams still respect Iggy's range).

I didn't follow the West last year. Is Iggy on minute restriction or was he playing 20mins because he shared the court with KD?.

It's not a sales pitch, it's my perception of the trade which will differ in opinions. If Thabo & Gordon is better, why does Houston have any interest in Iggy?. Sounds to me from your take, they should be waiting on a buyout.

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