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Potential Offseason Moves

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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#441 » by red96 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:18 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
red96 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
Iggy's 6 points is on 4.4 Attempts PG (50%). Gordon's 16 is on 13.8 Attempts PG (40%).

3.7 rbp, 3.2 apg in (23 mins) is considerably better than 2.2 rpg, 2 apg in (31mins)

Where's your defensive value estimation?.

Iggy >>>>>>>>> Gordon defensively. Houston can put Iggy on the apposing teams best wing/forward to compensate defensively for Harden & WB, can they do that with Gordon?.

Value is also relative to fit, need & preference. Yes Iggy is older & declining but he would be the perfect experienced role player that fits their SF hole. Combined with Tucker at PF, their forwards could defend & stretch the floor for 2 scoring guards without demanding touches to be effective. There's a reason Houston made Iggy a trade priority. With one ball Iggy defending & taking what comes to him at 50%, is better than Gordon being a defensive liability, hoisting 14 shots on 40% efficiency with 2 supposed ball hogs. This is my estimated value of the trade swap.

That said, I think Houston could use Gordon as their 6th man, to not want to include him but if I were Houston & Memphis were asking Gordon for Iggy, I'd make that swap. Much easier to pick up a 40% non defensive volume shooter off the bench than net an intelligent 3&D glue SF to fill a hole in the starting rotation, if you have championship aspirations.

Iggy is in demand - Denver, Mavs, LA, Clippers, Houston all think he could be their missing piece.
Which player is the better shooter and scorer isn't debatable, so stop it. Iggy will be 36. He has to be on 20 mpg restriction and can't fill a starters role.
Gordon can, and is not a defensive liability. In fact, he was arguably the Rockets 2nd best man defender on the perimeter, after Tucker last season, but lets just say he's average, not a liability. Ask any Rockets fan. I don't blame you for not being aware of that. Gordon was also the Rockets best 2nd option in the playoffs last season. Now with Westbrook, the Rockets need his shooting even more. 20 minute of Iggy isn't worth everything Gordon provides. I doubt you'd find any Rockets fan ok with a Iggy for Gordon swswap understand your sales pitch, but It would be a lateral move at very best, while adding salary.

Players like Marvin Williams, Thabo, Bazemore, ect. were/are available for way less $, provide much of what Iggy does, and at a lower cost than what Memphis wants for him. Is love Iggy for the right price, but Thabo and Gordon> Iggy easy.


Didn't claim Iggy was the better scorer, I claimed he was lower usage, higher efficiency, taking what's given to him.

I wasn't aware that Gordon improved defensively, he was one of the worse defenders not to long ago. Point taken.

Agree that WB would benefit from better spacing. (Teams still respect Iggy's range).

I didn't follow the West last year. Is Iggy on minute restriction or was he playing 20mins because he shared the court with KD?.

It's not a sales pitch, it's my perception of the trade which will differ in opinions. If Thabo & Gordon is better, why does Houston have any interest in Iggy?. Sounds to me from your take, they should be waiting on a buyout.
Yeah, Gordon has improved his D, but not elite by any stretch. I think Iggy's minutes were due to both, and at 36 years old, playing him more than 20-25mpg is asking for trouble. Im not trying to imply that Iggy wouldn't be useful to a team like the Rockets. I believe quite the opposite. Its just that trading a valuable rotation player like Gordon for him doesn't move the needle. They'd be filling a hole, while creating others. That's why I believe the Rockets want to use someone like Shumpert on a 1 year guaranteed contract, plus some form of compensation for Iggy. None of the teams interested in Iggy are rumored to be willing to move any solid rotation players for him. Easy to assume that the Rockets want to have both Gordon and Iggy on the team. That would make Houston better. We just have to see who, if anyone, will be willing to part with a first rounder Memphis is said to want for him.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#442 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:56 pm

According to Amick, Houston continues to push to acquire Iguodala from the Grizzlies via trade. The Clippers are also known to be among the most serious suitors for the former Warrior, Amick adds.

In order to match Iguodala’s $17,185,185 salary, the Rockets or Clippers would have to send out at least $12,185,185 in salary of their own, which will be difficult, but not impossible.

Los Angeles could use Maurice Harkless‘ $11,511,234 expiring contract, but would have to include at least one more piece — likely either Jerome Robinson or one of their 2019 draftees. Those two 2019 draft picks (Mfiondu Kabengele and Terance Mann) can’t be dealt until at least August 9 after signing on Tuesday.

Iguodala Drawing Interest From at Least Five Teams

If possible (Harkless & Kabengele) would be a good return for Iggy. I can see why Denver bowed out. Clippers blocking competing teams from netting Iggy.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#443 » by SD2042 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:21 am

Whole Truth wrote:According to Amick, Houston continues to push to acquire Iguodala from the Grizzlies via trade. The Clippers are also known to be among the most serious suitors for the former Warrior, Amick adds.

In order to match Iguodala’s $17,185,185 salary, the Rockets or Clippers would have to send out at least $12,185,185 in salary of their own, which will be difficult, but not impossible.

Los Angeles could use Maurice Harkless‘ $11,511,234 expiring contract, but would have to include at least one more piece — likely either Jerome Robinson or one of their 2019 draftees. Those two 2019 draft picks (Mfiondu Kabengele and Terance Mann) can’t be dealt until at least August 9 after signing on Tuesday.

Iguodala Drawing Interest From at Least Five Teams

If possible (Harkless & Kabengele) would be a good return for Iggy. I can see why Denver bowed out. Clippers blocking competing teams from netting Iggy.


Five teams?

Dallas, Houston, and Clippers I see. I heard about Denver recently. Who is the fifth team?
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#444 » by Whole Truth » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:49 am

SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:According to Amick, Houston continues to push to acquire Iguodala from the Grizzlies via trade. The Clippers are also known to be among the most serious suitors for the former Warrior, Amick adds.

In order to match Iguodala’s $17,185,185 salary, the Rockets or Clippers would have to send out at least $12,185,185 in salary of their own, which will be difficult, but not impossible.

Los Angeles could use Maurice Harkless‘ $11,511,234 expiring contract, but would have to include at least one more piece — likely either Jerome Robinson or one of their 2019 draftees. Those two 2019 draft picks (Mfiondu Kabengele and Terance Mann) can’t be dealt until at least August 9 after signing on Tuesday.

Iguodala Drawing Interest From at Least Five Teams

If possible (Harkless & Kabengele) would be a good return for Iggy. I can see why Denver bowed out. Clippers blocking competing teams from netting Iggy.


Five teams?

Dallas, Houston, and Clippers I see. I heard about Denver recently. Who is the fifth team?


That is actually the link to the article cut off. - (Lakers)
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#445 » by Whole Truth » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:58 am

From HoopsRumours:

The Rockets, meanwhile, probably wouldn’t want to move Clint Capela, P.J. Tucker or Eric Gordon for Iguodala, so a sign-and-trade involving Iman Shumpert could be their most viable path for matching salaries. Shumpert would have to sign a three-year contract in that scenario, but only the first year would need to be fully guaranteed. He could sign for exactly $12,185,185, and presumably he’d be open to the idea, since he won’t receive that kind of money from any other team as a free agent.

------------------------------

12m is the size of Houston's TPE. They can't fit Iggy's 17m into the TPE but if they sign Shumpert to 12m Memphis could send back Hill's 12m into their TPE.

Memphis trade - (Iggy 17m) for (Shumpert 12m, 2020 FRP)
Memphis trade - (Rabb, Brooks) for (Knights or Chriss 3.2/6 TPE)


Maybe if LA is interested, Memphis could flip Shumpert for their cap space?.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#446 » by Whole Truth » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:54 pm

I'd like to put in a formal request for Memphis to resign Noah.

If Memphis fall out the playoff race, he could be a valuable trade piece at the deadline where all parties could come to an agreement to trade him to a contender for an asset.

If Noah picks up where he left off some contender currently lacking at the Center position will take a flier on him at the deadline, assuming Memphis are not potentially in contention for a playoff spot.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#447 » by Whole Truth » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:01 pm

C - Jonas / Noah - + 1 of (Plumlee, Howard, Rabb) 2 of the 3 bought out. 3J or Clarke as a small ball C makes this C rotation very good

PF - 3J / Clarke / Bruno or Crowder. 3J takes a leap in his development, the PF rotation is also very good/deep.

SF - Crowder / Anderson / Jackson or Bruno (Hill) bought out

SG - Jackson / Allen / Brooks

PG - Ja / Jones / Melton. If Ja is as advertised, there's solid depth behind him. Memphis can make some noise.

If everything goes well this team could sneak into the playoff conversation. Ja comes as advertised, 3J takes a step in his development, Jackson turns things around. All that would be remaining IMO is a scoring wing, preferably a 2 way player.

Ja is unknown at this point but everyone in the starting rotation besides Jackson has to be respected behind the arc with Jonas being a low post threat along with the driving & dishing ability of Jackson & Ja. They can get out & run as well as play in the half court.

If teams go small, move 3J to C, with 2 of Clarke/Bruno/Crowder at SF/PF with Jackson & Ja. Clarke for a defensive unit, Crowder & Bruno for better spacing.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#448 » by Whole Truth » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:40 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#449 » by Whole Truth » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:52 am

Read on Twitter


Kings didn't want to give a pick for Capela who's on a better contract but they were willing to take him into space. They didn't want to part with Brogdonovic for Adams in an earlier link. Now they have significant interest when they don't want to give up either asset.

Why do I have a feeling Russ wants Adams to tag along & Capela might get moved to Kings for cap space.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#450 » by Whole Truth » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:07 am

Houston can expand the CP3/Westbrook trade and take back an additional $9.7 Million without adding anyone, or add players and take back more.

Capela 14.9m + 9.7m = 25.6m (Adams 25.8m)

Kings trade - (cap space 2nd) for (Capela)

Houston trade - (Capela 14.9m, 9.7m (Kyle Anderson) from expanding CP3 trade) for (Adams)
Houston trade - (Shumpert 10m S&T) for (Iggy 17m)

OKC trade - (Adams 25m) for (Anderson 9m, 16m TPE, Kings 2nd)

Memphis trade - (Iggy) for (Shumpert) Shed 7m
Memphis trade - (K. Anderson) into the Paul extended trade, shed 9m

This would give Memphis roughly 10m to possibly net a FRP in OKC's attempt to dump CP3 to the Heat.

Memphis trade - (10+m cap space, Crowder) for (Dragic, FRP from OKC)
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#451 » by Whole Truth » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:33 am

The Wizards have said they're not planning to trade Bradley Beal but that may not necessarily be the case.

Washington can offer the 26-year-old guard a three-year contract extension later this month and if he does not accept the new deal, the team could consider moving him, according to a report from the Washington Post

"The team has indicated it plans to give Beal the offer, and both the player's camp and the franchise have remained in contact throughout the summer. Around the league, however, the extension is not viewed as a done deal, and there is a growing belief that Beal will not remain in Washington for his entire career."

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/nba-trade-rumors-theres-growing-belief-bradley-beal-will-not-finish-career-with-wizards/17jgnhvieiigp1u7xhxvzrejo7

With 2-3 new super teams for the next 2-3 years. Washington would be smart to sell high on Beal now before he potentially loses any of his current value. They're not in a position to put a team around him & it's for this reason I think he could be a solution for Memphis who have a young roster he can fit into. Who can offer upto 3 FRP's, one an extremely valuable unprotected GS pick in 2026.

Jonas/Noah
3J/Clarke
Jackson/Crowder/Bruno
Beal/Allen
Ja/Jones

I'd try to keep Utah's pick in 2022 to maybe help bolster the roster with a cheap upside option. Unlike Washington, Memphis would have the pieces to put around Beal who could potentially grow to like his fit with this young roster that he would extend his contract & stay.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#452 » by SD2042 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:25 am

Whole Truth wrote:
Read on Twitter


Kings didn't want to give a pick for Capela who's on a better contract but they were willing to take him into space. They didn't want to part with Brogdonovic for Adams in an earlier link. Now they have significant interest when they don't want to give up either asset.

Why do I have a feeling Russ wants Adams to tag along & Capela might get moved to Kings for cap space.


When the WB trade rumors caught fire a few days ago, he wanted Adams to be tagged along with him to the same team situation. I still believe that Adams will be traded sooner or later.


Whole Truth wrote:
Read on Twitter




As for the CP3 situation. With the haul the Thunder currently have from the PG13 trade, they could take into consideration to trade at least two picks. After all, this is CP3 an aging superstar with an injury history to boot. OKC will have to take this under consideration. I'm sure something will come to fruition within the next week or so as they find a team to take on CP3 and his long contract.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#453 » by Whole Truth » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:44 pm

I think this is a telling move, Cavs are expected to waive Smith's contract today. https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/cavaliers-expected-to-waive-j-r-smith.html

His non guaranteed contract could save a team 10.3m in a 5.3m buyout. With OKC looking to dump CP3 to the Heat. The fact that Cavs plan to waive him to get 2m under the luxury tax could mean OKC-Heat have found an alternative solution that doesn't require the 5m still counting against the cap.

The 2 teams that could help facilitate - Houston/OKC/Heat are Kings & Memphis.

- Kings interest in Adams. They were rumored to be willing to take Capela's 14.7m into space but weren't willing to trade a 1st
- Houston's priority interest is Iggy
- The 9.7m TE is available in the CP3 trade if expanded, which isn't official yet.
- Westbrook wants Adams to accompany him in trade.

Houston trade - (Capela 14.7m, 9.7 TE, FRP) for (Adams 25.8m)
Houston trade - (Shumpert 10m S&T) for (Iggy 17m)

OKC trade - (Adams 25.8m, Robinson 10.7m) for (14.7m TE, Plumlee 12m, Anderson 9.1m)

Memphis trade - (Iggy 17m) for (Shumpert 10m)
Memphis trade - (Plumlee 12m, Anderson 9.1m) for (9.7 TE - CP3 extended trade, Robinson 10m, Houston 2020 FRP)

Kings trade - (14.7m cap space) for (Capela 14.7m)

Memphis shed roughly 16m, which helps them create roughly 10m cap space where they could get involved in the Heat-OKC CP3 trade for a FRP form OKC. With the cap space created, they could take on a contract larger than 10m for greater savings. James Johson's 15m for instance. Which would help OKC shed 15m in dumping CP3.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#454 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 pm

If Minnesota would entertain Wall with some incentive for Wiggins/Dieng swap.

Primer for trade.

Walls salary = 2020, 38.2m / 2021, 41.3m / 2022, 44.3m / 2023 PO, 47.4m

Wiggins salary = 2020, 27.5m / 2021, 29.5m / 2022, 31.6m / 2023, 33.6m
Dieng salary = 2020, 16.2m / 2021, 17.3m

Combined salary, Minnesota send out = 2020, 43.7m / 2021, 46.8m / 2022, 31.6m / 2023, 33.6m

Salary swap difference for Minnesota = 2020, -5.5m / 2021 -5.5m / 2022 +7.3m / 2023 +13.8m

In a worse case where Wall picks up his player option - Minnesota take on only 10m in swapping Wiggins/Dieng for Wall.

- When Wall is healthy, he's the more productive player than Wiggins at a position of need for them.
- Wall is expected to miss a full season, where player Insurance will cover his 2020 salary. Leaving 2yrs & a PO.
- With Wall out next season, Minnesota could tank for a young PG in a PG heavy 2020 draft.
- For their assistance & inclusion, they're compensated by Memphis with a FRP.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#455 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:45 pm

Washington trade - (Wall, Beal) for (Dieng, Plumlee, Shumpert, Anderson, Crowder, Memphis GS or Utah FRP)

- 22m expiring, young player & FRP

Minnesota trade - (Wiggins, Dieng) for (Wall, House, G.Clark, Memphis own 2023 FRP, Houston 2020)

- Minnesota net 2 picks for taking on some salary in swapping Wiggins for Wall.

Houston trade - (Shumpert, House, G.Clark, 2020 FRP) for (Iggy)

- Houston net their primary 3&D wing defender without taking on salary

Memphis trade - (Iggy, Plumlee, Anderson, Crowder, Memphis 2023 FRP, Utah or GS FRP) for (Beal, Wiggins)

Buyout Hill/Howard, resign Noah

C- Jonas / Noah / Rabb
PF - 3J / Clarke / Bruno
SF - (Wiggins or Jackson) / Yuta
SG - Beal / Allen / Brooks
PG - Ja / Jones / Melton

Keep either Utah or GS's FRP from 1 of the 2 picks offered.If Wiggins & Jackson flame out Utah's 2022 pick could pick up a SF prospect.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#456 » by red96 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:08 pm

Whole Truth wrote:Washington trade - (Wall, Beal) for (Dieng, Plumlee, Shumpert, Anderson, Crowder, Memphis GS or Utah FRP)

- 22m expiring, young player & FRP

Minnesota trade - (Wiggins, Dieng) for (Wall, House, G.Clark, Memphis own 2023 FRP, Houston 2020)

- Minnesota net 2 picks for taking on some salary in swapping Wiggins for Wall.

Houston trade - (Shumpert, House, G.Clark, 2020 FRP) for (Iggy)

- Houston net their primary 3&D wing defender without taking on salary

Memphis trade - (Iggy, Plumlee, Anderson, Crowder, Memphis 2023 FRP, Utah or GS FRP) for (Beal, Wiggins)

Buyout Hill/Howard, resign Noah

C- Jonas / Noah / Rabb
PF - 3J / Clarke / Bruno
SF - (Wiggins or Jackson) / Yuta
SG - Beal / Allen / Brooks
PG - Ja / Jones / Melton

Keep either Utah or GS's FRP from 1 of the 2 picks offered.If Wiggins & Jackson flame out Utah's 2022 pick could pick up a SF prospect.
The Rockets would be taking on roughly 12 million, and go well into the luxary tax on that deal. It wouldve been much easier to have added Iggy to the Westbrook deal, but it didn't happen. I think a Iggy trade to Houston is dead. Tilman reportedly doesn't want to go into tax for a player the level of current Iggy. Doubt Rockets wouldve dealt House and a 1st for Iggy, but doesn't matter, he cant be traded until December.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#457 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:46 pm

red96 wrote:The Rockets would be taking on roughly 12 million, and go well into the luxary tax on that deal. It wouldve been much easier to have added Iggy to the Westbrook deal, but it didn't happen. I think a Iggy trade to Houston is dead. Tilman reportedly doesn't want to go into tax for a player the level of current Iggy. Doubt Rockets wouldve dealt House and a 1st for Iggy, but doesn't matter, he cant be traded until December.


This trade is unrelated to the CP3 trade, it's a Wall for Wiggins swap, with Rockets netting Iggy.

In It, Rockets are sending out 17m for Iggy's 17m - (Shumpert S&T 10m, 2 small fillers at 5m). If you're referring to Shumpert having to be S&Traded at 10-12m, that's the portion of this suggestion that came from an actual rumor.

I don't know much about House, if he's a keeper, Rockets have other potential small fillers to take his place.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#458 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:31 pm

I saw a post on the OKC board that got me thinking.

Houston 2021 swap, OKC get the 2 most favorable of OKC, Miami, Houston.

This IMO is Houston/OKC leveraging the Heat on (CP3) to be better in 2021 to retain their pick.

Houston to OKC 2024 first, 1-4 protected

Houston 2025 swap, OKC receive the better of Clippers or Houston.

Houston to OKC 2026 first, 1-4 protected


I'd take on salary for the least of OKC's 2 most favorable in 2021. With OKC on a rebuilding path, they will have SGA & a couple rookies with contributors like Adams & Galinari expiring.

Take back a contract from the Heat in a potential CP3 deal, (for an expiring or buyout candidate) & or enough savings to get OKC under the luxury tax in salary differential for the least of their 2 most favorable 2021 swaps. Memphis shouldn't have to take on considerable salary to net that pick because the Heat have Butler & would be trading for CP3 giving the perception of possibly being good weakening the potential value of the pick

Whereas, I think or believe Butler & or Paul, will be in steep decline & or injured in 2021 that the Heat pick might be even better than OKC's. Who I suspect will have the better young talent/health heading into 2021.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#459 » by Whole Truth » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:13 am

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OKC owns Miami's picks. All they could offer & maintain a team is shorter contracts.

Memphis have expiring's, Utah's 2022 FRP 1-6 protected , GS 2024 FRP 1-4 protected to unprotected. Plus they could offer up their own pick in 2023/4/5 etc..

If Washington is set on including Wall, give Minnesota the necessary incentive to swap Wiggins for Wall as I posted above.

Memphis will have landed their PROVEN scoring SG.

-Bring back Noah, Memphis would have a very good, deep, versatile & young potential front court. (Jonas/Noah/3J/Clarke)
-They have their potential PG of the future (Ja), a solid steady backup in (Jones) & a defensive 3rd stringer in (Melton).
-If neither Wiggins or Jackson's potential take that SF spot, maybe Memphis are able to keep the Utah pick for a potential draft solution.

Who knows. Iggy might want to stay!.

Jonas / Noah / Rabb
3J / Clarke / Bruno
(Wiggins or Jackson) / Iggy
Beal / Allen / Brooks
Ja / Jones / Melton

Try & keep the Utah 2022 pick if there's a need to draft a SF or C.

Unlike Wall, Ja is a table setter.
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Re: Potential Offseason Moves 

Post#460 » by Whole Truth » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:15 am

The hang up with trading Iggy to Houston is financial, they don't want to go far into the luxury tax for the role player.

I'm thinking an under the table agreement where Memphis agree to buyout Iggy at his price, with the stipulation he signs with Houston.

Memphis buyout Iggy -
Memphis trade - (Howard 5.6m - 4yr, Rabb) for (Shumpert 6m, Houston 2022 pick 1-8 protected)

Houston sign Iggy to the vet min -
Houston buyout Howard for Memphis - reduce the luxury tax bill -
Rabb would be 3rd string depth to their big man rotation. -

Memphis open 2 roster spots net Houston's 2022 pick 1-8 protected. -

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