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Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:22 pm
by Whole Truth
SD2042 wrote:I am with you on the rest except the Ben McLemore part. If Houston expects to replace Gordon's shooting prowess with BMac, then it's a terrible decision. BMac has issues of consistency. Plus he continues to go through the revolving door when it comes to coaches. I think 8 coaches in his six year career? That alone goes to instability towards his development and self-confidence. If a player goes through too many turnovers in coaches in their early years, you can imagine the instability that results from such cases like BMac. I can't call him an Eric Gordon replacement. If anything, I can't imagine the Rox needing to replace Gordon in the first place unless a better player than Gordon comes into the situation.


As for this Guduric kid they signed, he definitely slipped under the radar here. I guess with all the fury oof the NBA free agency and trades, the kid was missed on the news ticker. Never seem him play and outside of scouting reports, who to say what he really is capable of as he adjusts to the NBA style of play.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/nba/grizzlies/2019/07/01/nba-free-agency-marko-guduric-signs-memphis-grizzlies/1619053001/


That article is from July 1st. Several things have changed since the start of the month. Most notably, Guduric's signing makes it 18 not 17 active & Memphis have no intention of buying out Iggy.

Which means, If Iggy is swapped in a 1-1 deal, Memphis would have to buyout all of Hill, Howard & Plumlee to get to 15 but would be left with no depth behind Jonas in doing so.

I think Rabb might get thrown in a deal as a cheap filler to open his roster spot to resign Noah.

Guduric, shot near 50% on 3 APG, definitely worth a look. Valuing IQ & Spacing. Could be a very under-rated pickup, especially if he proves not to be a defensive liability.

Eric Gordon shot 40% from the field, 36% from 3 on 14 APG & 20% usage. He's a low efficiency, volume scorer. I think Houston will use Mclemore mainly as a spot shooter in that 6th man role. (He shot 41% from 3 last year for the Kings, when he played). I think Houston will be running with Harden or Westbrook at all times. So they reduce Gordons volume shooting into a spot shooter & trade him to net Iggy who also plays within what's available. Lower usage, higher efficiency ... this IMO to offset 2 ball dominant gaurds splitting units for a full 48. On top of him being a significantly cheaper option, which helps the financial aspect of possibly trading for Iggy, considering where they are with the luxury tax. Like several other Houston players, his contract is non guaranteed.

Houston have nearly 20m in non guaranteed contracts.

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 7:00 pm
by Whole Truth

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Tue Aug 6, 2019 1:28 am
by Whole Truth
“If Houston is willing to trade, it has to involve Iman Shumpert. But the asset Memphis is obviously looking for is a first-round pick. They haven’t been able to get a team to cough one up for a 35-year-old wing, which is why Iguodala remains on the roster. Houston already sent two firsts to move Chris Paul’s contract, would they be content sending another? They’ve been hesitant so far. Frankly, I don’t see why they should. I’d argue that Shumpert’s contract and two seconds should get it done if Memphis just wants something in return.”

https://clutchpoints.com/rockets-rumors-houston-unlikely-to-trade-for-andre-iguodala-but-could-make-deal-if-grizzlies-asking-price-comes-down/

There's the problem, Memphis don't just want something in return, they want a first. If Houston want Iggy, they need to satisfy the asking price. He's in demand & clearly the better player, which is why Houston is willing to S&T Shumpert. Memphis don't owe anyone in this situation any favors.

If Shumpert & a 2nd, is the best Houston can do, Memphis are better off holding onto the 3 time champion for his presence & influence. Which for me has more value than a couple 2nds that Memphis just threw away, not having an open roster spot to retain Holiday. So if an open roster spot was worth Memphis losing the 2 2nds they traded for Holiday, they're better off just buying out Iggy with an over crowded roster for an open roster spot.

If Houston is sticking on what is most likely a late 2020 pick, they deserve to fall short, again.

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Tue Aug 6, 2019 4:24 am
by First Take
I wonder what Memphis plans on doing with the former 3x DPOY in Dwight Howard. Memphis fans, do you guys have any idea what is going on with him? I know they are looking to either trade or buy him out. I would like him to land in Miami, Lakers, Toronto or San San Antonio. I wouldn't mind him on the Clippers, I know they need a legit center.

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Tue Aug 6, 2019 2:46 pm
by Whole Truth
First Take wrote:I wonder what Memphis plans on doing with the former 3x DPOY in Dwight Howard. Memphis fans, do you guys have any idea what is going on with him? I know they are looking to either trade or buy him out. I would like him to land in Miami, Lakers, Toronto or San San Antonio. I wouldn't mind him on the Clippers, I know they need a legit center.


Memphis have 18 active players & need to open 3 spots to meet regulation. They're not buying out Iggy's 17m. He's in demand, has value both in trade or to Memphis, if they decide to hold onto him.

There's 3 potential buyout options to cut the roster down to regulation - Plumlee, Howard, Hill.

In the decision to keep Iggy or trade him 1-1, means having to buy out both centre options to meet regulation, which would leave Memphis thin behind Jonas even with 3J playing some minutes at C. Maybe, Memphis intend on Clarke playing some mins at C as well...

The roster is overloaded at the forward position - 3J, Clarke, Bruno, Crowder, Iggy, Anderson, Hill, Josh Jackson. Even if they buyout Hill, there's still not enough available minutes. This is why I think there will be a consolidation trade at the forward position.

I have no links but I think with the roster imbalance & overload, the fact that none have been bought out, Memphis might be holding onto their buyout contracts (potential expiring fillers) for a consolidation trade, a big contract or some unwanted salary, that comes with pick compensation when the trade exception on these recently traded players are lifted Sept 4th.

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Tue Aug 6, 2019 2:53 pm
by Whole Truth
Read on Twitter

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:09 pm
by Whole Truth
A pitch to Grizz ownership & or management.

- How much were you willing to pay to buyout Parsons 25m contract?.

- It's rumored you wanted Iggy to eat at least 10m of his 17m contract, if not most likely traded to a contender for a late pick & bad salary in return, still needing to buyout 3 players to cut roster.

It's quite possible you were looking at a rough estimate of having to buyout around 30m to cut the roster to regulation.

- Next year quite a bit of money would be shed from roster with no need to sign anyone. Maybe there's consideration to repeat & take on salary to net additional picks, how much?. it took 17m to net GS's pick under ideal trade conditions.

- SAS recently argued that OKC should buyout Paul for a 120, maybe it can be negotiated to 100?.

Here's my proposal.

Memphis trade - (Iggy 17m, Hill 12m, K.Anderson 9m 3yrs) for (Paul 38m, 2-3 FRP's)

If Paul could be bought out for 100-120m as suggested by Smith. Memphis already needed roughly 30m to buyout current players to meet roster regulation. By sending out K.Anderson near 30m over 3yrs. At a 100m the difference in Paul's buyout would be roughly 40m. So if 2 quality FRP's are netted, roughly 20m per lotto pick.

The concept is equivalent to a declining contract. While looking like a steep price to pay up front, this would be the best way to bolster the future health of the team. Far better than throwing a 100m behind another Parsons in free agency because the team is not a FA draw that needs to overpay non stars. The money will be recouped by the 7-8 potential quality rookie scaled controlled talent making up the depth chart (3J, Ja, Clarke, Utah, GS, 2-3 picks out of OKC). A one time sunken cost that trims roster to regulation, adds pick collateral, balances the roster moving out 3 forwards & improves the chance of a brighter, cheaper future than looking at wasted money in overpaid role players in that duration.

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:29 pm
by Whole Truth
Memphis trade - (Iggy 17m, Hill 12m, Anderson 9m/3yrs/27m) = 56m total

OKC trade - (Paul 38m, 2 FRP's) = 100-120m buyout

At SAS's suggested buyout point the total financial difference from salary heading out & Pauls buyout = 64m

Memphis were already looking at between 30-40m in buyout options to meet roster regulation. Swapping Anderson for Plumlee's expiring helps dump an additional 15m from long term cost. So if they were willing to do a 120m buyout for pick collateral, the value is roughly 30m per pick. Maybe they can negotiate a 100m buyout...

Targeted picks.

2021 FRP, best of OKC/Miami/Houston. Likely scenario, Memphis land top 6 2020 & convey to Boston in 2021. This allows Memphis to build towards winning to reduce the value of the pick owed, while potentially netting a lotto pick.

Houston 2024 FRP 1-4 protected

When 3J & JA are up for their first extension, Memphis will have added 4 rookie scale lotto picks 2 as late as 2024 as depth options which offsets the extensions of the young core financially while also bolstering the teams player control, which more than offsets the upfront cost of buying out Paul. Most teams, when their team is ready to compete either don't have the pick/trade currency or cap space to bolster the team, they've thrown millions away filling the depth with overpaid role players.

Memphis will have all options available to build around the extended core because of the 1 time sunken cost of buying out Paul & due to the fact they already had to buyout players to cut roster, overall cost, reduced by this fact.

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:24 pm
by Whole Truth
According to a recent rumor by ClipCast, former NBA Finals MVP Andre Iguodala will be joining the LA Clippers in the next week.
The former Finals MVP is reportedly on the way to the LA Clippers. This rumor came out last night via ClipCast. According to the two hosts, a source close to Andre Iguodala informed them that he will join the team on September 3. Why such a specific date? They have no clue.

Now, we here at Clipperholics are skeptical of the rumor. For starters, no source is given.

They also mention that their source did not provide any details on how Iggy would join the team, whether it be via a buyout with Memphis or some sort of trade.

It is worth noting though that ClipCast has reported rumors that ended up being true in the past, such as Ballmer’s desire to move out of Staples. Take that how you will.

https://clipperholics.com/2019/08/29/la-clippers-rumors-andre-iguodala-join-team/

The mention of the September 3rd date is a key piece of information, it's supposedly when Iggy's trade restriction will be lifted (3rd or 4th) where he can be combined with players in trade again. So if there's any truth to the rumor with the mention of that date. Memphis are trading Iggy in a multi player trade. The question becomes is it directly to the Clippers or to a non playoff team in a consolidation trade where they buy him out & he walks to the Clippers?.

Memphis need to trim their roster by 2. Clippers are over the cap & can't even match Iggy's salary 1-1.

OKC are over the tax by I think 2-4m. Is it possible they're involved, buying out Iggy for 13-15m?. Apposed to being stuck with Paul.

Memphis wanted to trade Iggy for a pick. They aren't getting that with a Clippers trade. A 3-1 with OKC for Paul & maybe 2-3 picks. They would trim the roster, where they wouldn't have to buyout anyone but it's an option if both come to terms on a buyout. If not, they could potentially play Paul off ball with Ja while netting 2-3 picks where they already had to trim roster.

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:38 pm
by SD2042
Whole Truth wrote:According to a recent rumor by ClipCast, former NBA Finals MVP Andre Iguodala will be joining the LA Clippers in the next week.
The former Finals MVP is reportedly on the way to the LA Clippers. This rumor came out last night via ClipCast. According to the two hosts, a source close to Andre Iguodala informed them that he will join the team on September 3. Why such a specific date? They have no clue.

Now, we here at Clipperholics are skeptical of the rumor. For starters, no source is given.

They also mention that their source did not provide any details on how Iggy would join the team, whether it be via a buyout with Memphis or some sort of trade.

It is worth noting though that ClipCast has reported rumors that ended up being true in the past, such as Ballmer’s desire to move out of Staples. Take that how you will.

https://clipperholics.com/2019/08/29/la-clippers-rumors-andre-iguodala-join-team/

The mention of the September 3rd date is a key piece of information, it's supposedly when Iggy's trade restriction will be lifted (3rd or 4th) where he can be combined with players in trade again. So if there's any truth to the rumor with the mention of that date. Memphis are trading Iggy in a multi player trade. The question becomes is it directly to the Clippers or to a non playoff team in a consolidation trade where they buy him out & he walks to the Clippers?.

Memphis need to trim their roster by 2. Clippers are over the cap & can't even match Iggy's salary 1-1.

OKC are over the tax by I think 2-4m. Is it possible they're involved, buying out Iggy for 13-15m?. Apposed to being stuck with Paul.

Memphis wanted to trade Iggy for a pick. They aren't getting that with a Clippers trade. A 3-1 with OKC for Paul & maybe 2-3 picks. They would trim the roster, where they wouldn't have to buyout anyone but it's an option if both come to terms on a buyout. If not, they could potentially play Paul off ball with Ja while netting 2-3 picks where they already had to trim roster.


Here's a question. Why would Memphis jump into the CP3 sweepstakes when they are on a rebuild in the first place? A 3 for 1 with OKC would put them over the roster limit. Unless the Grizzlies trade them contracts that gives OKC a chance at buying those contracts out.

Then to the Clippers, the only names I've heard linked to Iggy were from the early parts of free agency. Harkless and their rookie center from Florida State I think were the two names linked to Iggy in the potential trade. Does that still stands, I have no idea.

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:10 pm
by Whole Truth
SD2042 wrote:Here's a question. Why would Memphis jump into the CP3 sweepstakes when they are on a rebuild in the first place? A 3 for 1 with OKC would put them over the roster limit. Unless the Grizzlies trade them contracts that gives OKC a chance at buying those contracts out.

Then to the Clippers, the only names I've heard linked to Iggy were from the early parts of free agency. Harkless and their rookie center from Florida State I think were the two names linked to Iggy in the potential trade. Does that still stands, I have no idea.


For the pick compensation that OKC is willing to attach to Paul's contract to shed it.

Heat supposedly asked for their 2021 pick back along with their 2023 & Clippers for less financial relief offered in return. Memphis could potentially replace their owed pick to Boston, with a 2021 lotto pick, as they continue to build to win. OKC control the best of 3 picks in 2021. I'd ask for the best of the 3, which is OKC's pick in the mix, if they're only willing to give up 2 picks to move Paul's salary. It would represent 3x the lotto odds of being top 5 in the new lotto system .. with Heat, OKC expected to be bottom teams & Houston the outside possibility, with an ageing Harden. Then I'd target Houston's pick in 2024 as 2 potential picks in 2024 when you consider Memphis own GS's, would be healthy for the cap situation to infuse 2 cheap quality controlled rookies when 3J & JA are facing their first extensions. They could also be used as trade currency for a star addition if the team is proving ready to contend.

If Memphis can net those 2 quality picks out of OKC to make it 4 total over as many years, IMO there's no better use for that allotted money & I know it would more than pay for the upfront cost in the long term. Consider the average rookie scale to a paid role player over the span of 4yrs +. (3 Memphis picks & 4 acquired lotto picks) over a 4yr span added to the current core is 10 active roster spots filled with rookie scaled contracts of varying talent & experience making up the depth chart. That cheap quality depth, means less money spent on overpaid free agents who most likely aren't even as talented. Just have to make sure the Memphis development team is a good one.

At no point, if Paul can't be bought out would his 3yr contract hinder Memphis' financially, as it would OKC who are currently over the tax & financially conscious, having in the past traded Harden away in the midst of contention, to ultimately save money. Memphis might be in the same financial small boat but their cap situation is in a much better position to house Pauls contract until the young core is developed & ready to compete.

Weak at SG & 3pt shooting, Memphis could play Paul off ball to JA if he's retained. So they would have leverage in any buyout scenario & wouldn't care if Paul chose not to play, that 30m was dead in potential buyouts to meet regulation. It could force him into leaving more money on the table if he wants a buyout. A good excuse to net a top 6 pick in 2020. I don't get to talk to Paul & his agents to determine a potential buyout point but still think this trade would be more than worth the upfront overpayment, even at the worst possibly buyout point.

Consolidating those expiring buyout options into a trade for Paul, Memphis actually get Paul & 2 picks for that otherwise dead 30m. Which answers the 2nd part of your question as to who OKC could buyout, not just to meet their regulation but to get them under the tax threshold, which is any of Iggy, Hill or Plumlee, which is better for them than having to buyout Paul to make way for the 2nd year SGA. If Memphis had any plans on using 30-40m freed cap next year it would most likely have been to acquire additional picks anyway. None possibly better value than what OKC would attach to move Paul's contract because the worse the contract, the better the pick compensation.

80-120m is a lot of salary to potentially eat in a potential buyout but I ask, how much would a solid role player or 2 cost over that 3-4y span where Memphis can add 7 rookie scale contracts as controlled depth options? They were already looking at 30m in buyouts & potentially using 30-40m to take back bad salary next year for a similar purpose. You're already looking at roughly 70m not better spent.

Talent doesn't come cheap, unless it comes from the draft. 7 picks of varying degrees added to the current core will more than pay for the up front cost of potentially buying out Paul, especially if Memphis draft & development team hit on those picks ..

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:17 pm
by Whole Truth
A far better investment than throwing a 100m on a Parsons.

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Sun Sep 1, 2019 3:01 pm
by Crizzle
Whole Truth wrote:
SD2042 wrote:Here's a question. Why would Memphis jump into the CP3 sweepstakes when they are on a rebuild in the first place? A 3 for 1 with OKC would put them over the roster limit. Unless the Grizzlies trade them contracts that gives OKC a chance at buying those contracts out.

Then to the Clippers, the only names I've heard linked to Iggy were from the early parts of free agency. Harkless and their rookie center from Florida State I think were the two names linked to Iggy in the potential trade. Does that still stands, I have no idea.


For the pick compensation that OKC is willing to attach to Paul's contract to shed it.

Heat supposedly asked for their 2021 pick back along with their 2023 & Clippers for less financial relief offered in return. Memphis could potentially replace their owed pick to Boston, with a 2021 lotto pick, as they continue to build to win. OKC control the best of 3 picks in 2021. I'd ask for the best of the 3, which is OKC's pick in the mix, if they're only willing to give up 2 picks to move Paul's salary. It would represent 3x the lotto odds of being top 5 in the new lotto system .. with Heat, OKC expected to be bottom teams & Houston the outside possibility, with an ageing Harden. Then I'd target Houston's pick in 2024 as 2 potential picks in 2024 when you consider Memphis own GS's, would be healthy for the cap situation to infuse 2 cheap quality controlled rookies when 3J & JA are facing their first extensions. They could also be used as trade currency for a star addition if the team is proving ready to contend.

If Memphis can net those 2 quality picks out of OKC to make it 4 total over as many years, IMO there's no better use for that allotted money & I know it would more than pay for the upfront cost in the long term. Consider the average rookie scale to a paid role player over the span of 4yrs +. (3 Memphis picks & 4 acquired lotto picks) over a 4yr span added to the current core is 10 active roster spots filled with rookie scaled contracts of varying talent & experience making up the depth chart. That cheap quality depth, means less money spent on overpaid free agents who most likely aren't even as talented. Just have to make sure the Memphis development team is a good one.

At no point, if Paul can't be bought out would his 3yr contract hinder Memphis' financially, as it would OKC who are currently over the tax & financially conscious, having in the past traded Harden away in the midst of contention, to ultimately save money. Memphis might be in the same financial small boat but their cap situation is in a much better position to house Pauls contract until the young core is developed & ready to compete.

Weak at SG & 3pt shooting, Memphis could play Paul off ball to JA if he's retained. So they would have leverage in any buyout scenario & wouldn't care if Paul chose not to play, that 30m was dead in potential buyouts to meet regulation. It could force him into leaving more money on the table if he wants a buyout. A good excuse to net a top 6 pick in 2020. I don't get to talk to Paul & his agents to determine a potential buyout point but still think this trade would be more than worth the upfront overpayment, even at the worst possibly buyout point.

Consolidating those expiring buyout options into a trade for Paul, Memphis actually get Paul & 2 picks for that otherwise dead 30m. Which answers the 2nd part of your question as to who OKC could buyout, not just to meet their regulation but to get them under the tax threshold, which is any of Iggy, Hill or Plumlee, which is better for them than having to buyout Paul to make way for the 2nd year SGA. If Memphis had any plans on using 30-40m freed cap next year it would most likely have been to acquire additional picks anyway. None possibly better value than what OKC would attach to move Paul's contract because the worse the contract, the better the pick compensation.

80-120m is a lot of salary to potentially eat in a potential buyout but I ask, how much would a solid role player or 2 cost over that 3-4y span where Memphis can add 7 rookie scale contracts as controlled depth options? They were already looking at 30m in buyouts & potentially using 30-40m to take back bad salary next year for a similar purpose. You're already looking at roughly 70m not better spent.

Talent doesn't come cheap, unless it comes from the draft. 7 picks of varying degrees added to the current core will more than pay for the up front cost of potentially buying out Paul, especially if Memphis draft & development team hit on those picks ..


wow. thanks for formulating this response

Re: Potential Offseason Moves

Posted: Sun Sep 8, 2019 2:26 am
by Whole Truth
In a recent article for Bleacher Report, Greg Swartz, suggested that Wiggins could be sent to Oklahoma City in a deal for Chris Paul and Danilo Gallinari.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/nba-trade-rumors-wiggins-to-okc-for-chris-paul-and-danilo-gallinari/ar-AAGX9NF?li=BBnba9I

If Minnesota are interested in swapping Wiggins for Paul, Memphis could jump in & consolidate their forward position into Wiggins, picks without a need to buy him out. OKC as a result, net expiring's that save them 50m while clearing way for SGA, where Westbrook/Paul were costing them 40/3, for pick compensation.

OKC trade - (Paul 38m/3 + Gallinari 22m/1 + 2021 FRP) for (Dieng 16m/2 + Teague 19m/1 + Iggy 17m/1 + Anderson 9m/4)

Minnesota swap bad contracts to get a productive player at a position of need at PG, while shaving a year off. The inclusion of Dieng's contract makes up for the 11m per year difference between Paul & Wiggins. Dieng 16 ^ 2 = 11/11/10 over 3 yrs.

Minnesota trade - (Wiggins 27m/4 + Dieng 16m/2 + Teague 19/1 + FRP) for (Paul 38m/3 + Gallinari 22/1 + Rabb 1.5/1)

If OKC are willing to attach pick value to dump Wiggins for expiring's, buyout options, Memphis can consolidate their forward position into Wiggins + pick value without having to buyout anyone. Wiggins a potential reclamation target in a change of scenery.

Memphis trade - (Iggy 17m/1 + Anderson 9m/4 + Rabb 1.5m/1) for (Wiggins 27m/4 + OKC 2021 FRP + Minnesota FRP)