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Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3)

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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#61 » by VCfor3 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:18 pm

jman3134 wrote:^ That would be amazing if that was on the table - I agree. Unless this is paired with another trade, I don't see what assets we have that can justify use of the exception. Maybe I just lack the vision and am skeptical Chicago would dump that much to sign Russell. Of course I would love that move.


We wouldn't be using any assets with the TPE. It likely will be used for salary dumps like 16+Mozgov, Biyombo+Monk/future 1st, etc where we don't send anything of value out other than salary relief.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#62 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:21 pm

VCfor3 wrote:Really like the return actually. The future pick should be solid (either late lottery in 2020 or 2021 or likely conveys in 2022 when it is the double draft). I'm not high on Allen but he is worth looking at. The giant TPE is awesome when teams want to dump salary.


Vic check the protection again. Utah protected the pick (1-8) to protect them from failure. Memphis have a stipulation that if the pick lands (15-30) it turns over for the next 2 years. Until top 6 in 2022.

- If Jazz turn out to be mediocre, the pick would be somewhere between 8-14 in the next 2 seasons.
- If they're good, the pick gets pushed to top 6 in 2022 where it would equal the value Conley gave them.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#63 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:26 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
jman3134 wrote:^ That would be amazing if that was on the table - I agree. Unless this is paired with another trade, I don't see what assets we have that can justify use of the exception. Maybe I just lack the vision and am skeptical Chicago would dump that much to sign Russell. Of course I would love that move.


We wouldn't be using any assets with the TPE. It likely will be used for salary dumps like 16+Mozgov, Biyombo+Monk/future 1st, etc where we don't send anything of value out other than salary relief.


Boston is also rumored short of signing Russell. If they renounce players they'd have 26m available. Rumor is they might have to move the value of their picks to makeup the financial difference.

Heat are 5m over the Luxury tax & are rumored to buying out R. Andersons 20m expiring to save repeater money. The fact they're buying out an expiring should be telling of their cap situation.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#64 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:27 pm

Jman your front office did a masterful job with this trade.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#65 » by VCfor3 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:29 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Really like the return actually. The future pick should be solid (either late lottery in 2020 or 2021 or likely conveys in 2022 when it is the double draft). I'm not high on Allen but he is worth looking at. The giant TPE is awesome when teams want to dump salary.


Vic check the protection again. Utah protected the pick (1-8) to protect them from failure. Memphis have a stipulation that if the pick lands (15-30) it turns over for the next 2 years. Until top 6 in 2022.

- If Jazz turn out to be mediocre, the pick would be somewhere between 8-14 in the next 2 seasons.
- If they're good, the pick gets pushed to top 6 in 2022 where it would equal the value Conley gave them.


I mean that's what I said isn't it? Late lottery in 2020 or 2021 since it is protected 1-8 and 15-30 those years. 2022 is the double draft and the pick is only protected 1-6 which Utah likely lands outside of.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#66 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:37 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Really like the return actually. The future pick should be solid (either late lottery in 2020 or 2021 or likely conveys in 2022 when it is the double draft). I'm not high on Allen but he is worth looking at. The giant TPE is awesome when teams want to dump salary.


Vic check the protection again. Utah protected the pick (1-8) to protect them from failure. Memphis have a stipulation that if the pick lands (15-30) it turns over for the next 2 years. Until top 6 in 2022.

- If Jazz turn out to be mediocre, the pick would be somewhere between 8-14 in the next 2 seasons.
- If they're good, the pick gets pushed to top 6 in 2022 where it would equal the value Conley gave them.


I mean that's what I said isn't it? Late lottery in 2020 or 2021 since it is protected 1-8 and 15-30 those years. 2022 is the double draft and the pick is only protected 1-6 which Utah likely lands outside of.


Once again my mistake, I'm thinking mid draft apposed to lotto.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#67 » by VCfor3 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:38 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
Vic check the protection again. Utah protected the pick (1-8) to protect them from failure. Memphis have a stipulation that if the pick lands (15-30) it turns over for the next 2 years. Until top 6 in 2022.

- If Jazz turn out to be mediocre, the pick would be somewhere between 8-14 in the next 2 seasons.
- If they're good, the pick gets pushed to top 6 in 2022 where it would equal the value Conley gave them.


I mean that's what I said isn't it? Late lottery in 2020 or 2021 since it is protected 1-8 and 15-30 those years. 2022 is the double draft and the pick is only protected 1-6 which Utah likely lands outside of.


Once again my mistake, I'm thinking mid draft apposed to lotto.


All good buddy.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#68 » by jman3134 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:37 pm

Ok, I will explain my reasoning. I understand the trade exception terms, I am just skeptical how it would be practically applied in the current free agency. Again, perhaps I just lack the vision or I am just a skeptic.

If the pick lands 8-14 the next two years, we get it. I doubt this will happen with Conley upgrading the roster, but you never know with injuries. So downside case is an 8-14 pick the next two years. I would hate that in the 2020 draft, as I am a huge hater of that class at the moment. But, I think the likely landing spot is 2022, which is 3+ years away. The further out a draft is, the less value the pick has as a standard operating procedure I am assuming.

23 pick has zero value to me because you are getting the same level player you could be getting in the second round, except you are doing so on a guaranteed contract at a higher rookie scale. The late first round picks are what I would have avoided in this draft.

As a direct result of this trade, we add no big time young talent immediately to pair with Ja. (unless we are getting a huge steal at 23, but I wouldn't hold my breath with our front office's draft history)

As for the trade exception, how are we going to practically apply this?

I will go off CBS' top free agent list:

1. Kawhi Leonard - likely ops in with TO

2. Kevin Durant -

3. Kyrie Irving -

4. Kemba Walker -

5. Klay Thompson -

6. Porzingis -

7. Jimmy Butler -

8. Tobias Harris -

9. Khris Middleton -

10. Nikola Vucevic -

11. D'Angelo Russell -

These guys look like the max deals to me. Kawhi, Porzingis, Middleton, Klay likely resign without much fanfare. My understanding is the cap is at $109m next year?

Let's address this one by one.

Durant signs with the Knicks maybe at a reduced price given the achilles injury. If not, they have a tremendous amount of cap space, so they don't need us as a trade partner. If he resigns with the Warriors, it would be at a reduced salary rate, or if not, what long term assets could we get from the Warriors?

Let's say Irving signs with the Nets to a supermax contract worst case 35% cap. They still have $17m left to pursue free agents plus their draft picks pay scaled. Or if they wanted to make a trade with us to free up space we get Allen Crabbe and what other value in terms of picks and future assets?

Kemba Walker - said he doesn't necessarily want to be in the tri-state, so he is likely a candidate in LA for the Lakers. Point is that eliminates the Nets and Knicks. Reading speculation reports, the potential candidates that make sense are Dallas, Indiana, LA Lakers, and Charlotte.

Dallas doesn't make sense because Doncic needs the ball in his hands and that was the reason they sent Dennis Smith to the Knicks. Kemba is not a complementary piece and is too ball dominant. If the Pacers renounce their FA rights, they have more than enough space to sign Kemba outright. No need for a trade partner. LA Lakers might have use for the exception. According to the source I read, the Lakers have $27.5m or $23.7m available depending on the timing of trade finalization with the Hornets. This is a potential option, but the Lakers will likely be stingy with giving away Kuzma. If we secure a future pick, with Lebron and AD, this team is at least top 4 in the west depending on free agency obvs, so the draft pick is late 1st. I don't see us wrestling away Kuzma just so the Lakers can sign Kemba. Charlotte has about $56m in cap space to sign Kemba for next year without going over the cap from what I am seeing and I don't envision them moving Miles Bridges to do so. I think they should be fine signing Kemba. If they want to dump salary, we could take Batum and a future pick, which wouldn't be an awful move. That said, I am not sure this is necessary with their current cap situation.

Jimmy Butler - he is opting out. Potential partners I think that are realistic are Philly, the Rockets, and the Lakers. The Rockets have zero in the way of long term assets to offer us. Their picks will be late first and we could take on Capela maybe. No really interesting to me. No way we go near Paul's contract. What long term assets could the Sixers give us remembering that they are in win now mode? Late 1sts? The Lakers again are not giving up Kuzma.

These are just some examples. I would gladly take Otto Porter plus a pick if that could conceivably work out and was a second deal attached to this trade exception.

My point is that the most interesting teams from a potential value standpoint (Suns, Hawks, Bulls, etc.) are not likely candidates to land these guys. Or, in the case of the Hawks, assuming Bazemore opts in, they still have enough cap room to sign a guy without a trade. Suns are so bad they likely don't land a big time free agent, even though their assets are attractive for us. The teams that are going to be competitive for free agents like the Rockets and Lakers likely aren't willing to give up much, unless we want to keep stockpiling late first round picks.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#69 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:45 pm

Jman the 2022 pick is when the league is supposedly lifting the age restriction.

"The Memphis Grizzlies have plans to listen to offers for the recently acquired 23rd pick of Thursday’s NBA Draft, according to David Aldridge of The Athletic". (I think they will use it in an attempt to trade up).

You can't sign any FA with a TPE. Memphis either let it expire into cap space or use it to absorb salary. The fact that this is a large 29m trade exception...

- any team interested in paying the price for a max contract is going to offer up pick collateral.

- any team that are trying to dump dead weight like Wiggins/Batum will offer up pick collateral.

Memphis got a lot of "potential value out of this deal which is yet unseen to most. Question is what they might have potentially lined up with that pseudo cap collateral?.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#70 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:52 pm

Example.

Lets say Charlotte want to keep Kemba & add another FA, Memphis could take Bizz 17m expiring into that large trade exception with no salary heading back to Charlotte helping them get some financial flexibility which they sorely need.

(TPE 17m) for (Bizz, #12)
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#71 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:02 pm

Memphis trade - (25m TPE) for (Wiggins 25m, #11, FRP 2022).

Buyout Bradley 12m, Korver 8m.. 5m guaranteed of 20m
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#72 » by VCfor3 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:32 pm

jman3134 wrote:Ok, I will explain my reasoning. I understand the trade exception terms, I am just skeptical how it would be practically applied in the current free agency. Again, perhaps I just lack the vision or I am just a skeptic.

If the pick lands 8-14 the next two years, we get it. I doubt this will happen with Conley upgrading the roster, but you never know with injuries. So downside case is an 8-14 pick the next two years. I would hate that in the 2020 draft, as I am a huge hater of that class at the moment. But, I think the likely landing spot is 2022, which is 3+ years away. The further out a draft is, the less value the pick has as a standard operating procedure I am assuming. 2022 is the exception to this rule. It is widely projected to be the "double draft" when the age gets lowered.

23 pick has zero value to me because you are getting the same level player you could be getting in the second round, except you are doing so on a guaranteed contract at a higher rookie scale. The late first round picks are what I would have avoided in this draft. I actually think there is a drop-off after about 25 plus there is a decent chance someone falls due to how all over the place teams see the prospects in the 9-25 range.

As a direct result of this trade, we add no big time young talent immediately to pair with Ja. (unless we are getting a huge steal at 23, but I wouldn't hold my breath with our front office's draft history) The problem is that I don't think we had any better options. It sounds like Indy wasn't looking to part with Turner or Sabonis for Conley and that was our best hope at getting big time young talent.

As for the trade exception, how are we going to practically apply this?

I will go off CBS' top free agent list:

1. Kawhi Leonard - likely ops in with TO

2. Kevin Durant -

3. Kyrie Irving -

4. Kemba Walker -

5. Klay Thompson -

6. Porzingis -

7. Jimmy Butler -

8. Tobias Harris -

9. Khris Middleton -

10. Nikola Vucevic -

11. D'Angelo Russell -

These guys look like the max deals to me. Kawhi, Porzingis, Middleton, Klay likely resign without much fanfare. My understanding is the cap is at $109m next year?

Let's address this one by one.

Durant signs with the Knicks maybe at a reduced price given the achilles injury. If not, they have a tremendous amount of cap space, so they don't need us as a trade partner. If he resigns with the Warriors, it would be at a reduced salary rate, or if not, what long term assets could we get from the Warriors?

Let's say Irving signs with the Nets to a supermax contract worst case 35% cap. They still have $17m left to pursue free agents plus their draft picks pay scaled. Or if they wanted to make a trade with us to free up space we get Allen Crabbe and what other value in terms of picks and future assets?

Kemba Walker - said he doesn't necessarily want to be in the tri-state, so he is likely a candidate in LA for the Lakers. Point is that eliminates the Nets and Knicks. Reading speculation reports, the potential candidates that make sense are Dallas, Indiana, LA Lakers, and Charlotte.

Dallas doesn't make sense because Doncic needs the ball in his hands and that was the reason they sent Dennis Smith to the Knicks. Kemba is not a complementary piece and is too ball dominant. If the Pacers renounce their FA rights, they have more than enough space to sign Kemba outright. No need for a trade partner. LA Lakers might have use for the exception. According to the source I read, the Lakers have $27.5m or $23.7m available depending on the timing of trade finalization with the Hornets. This is a potential option, but the Lakers will likely be stingy with giving away Kuzma. If we secure a future pick, with Lebron and AD, this team is at least top 4 in the west depending on free agency obvs, so the draft pick is late 1st. I don't see us wrestling away Kuzma just so the Lakers can sign Kemba. Charlotte has about $56m in cap space to sign Kemba for next year without going over the cap from what I am seeing and I don't envision them moving Miles Bridges to do so. I think they should be fine signing Kemba. If they want to dump salary, we could take Batum and a future pick, which wouldn't be an awful move. That said, I am not sure this is necessary with their current cap situation.

Jimmy Butler - he is opting out. Potential partners I think that are realistic are Philly, the Rockets, and the Lakers. The Rockets have zero in the way of long term assets to offer us. Their picks will be late first and we could take on Capela maybe. No really interesting to me. No way we go near Paul's contract. What long term assets could the Sixers give us remembering that they are in win now mode? Late 1sts? The Lakers again are not giving up Kuzma.

These are just some examples. I would gladly take Otto Porter plus a pick if that could conceivably work out and was a second deal attached to this trade exception. They aren't using a pick to dump Porter

My point is that the most interesting teams from a potential value standpoint (Suns, Hawks, Bulls, etc.) are not likely candidates to land these guys. Or, in the case of the Hawks, assuming Bazemore opts in, they still have enough cap room to sign a guy without a trade. Suns are so bad they likely don't land a big time free agent, even though their assets are attractive for us. The teams that are going to be competitive for free agents like the Rockets and Lakers likely aren't willing to give up much, unless we want to keep stockpiling late first round picks. You aren't getting a big time young guy or high draft pick unless you take on some really bad money. The only shot we have at that would be Miles Bridges+Batum and that is unlikely to happen. I know it isn't sexy, but the point of salary dumps is usually to give yourself additional swings at finding a decent young player in the back half of the first round. Look at past drafts. There are studs that go latter. The problem is identifying those studs is extremely difficult. Taking on salary for picks is you giving yourself an extra shot at finding the draft steal. Getting a Heurter, Shamet, Kuzma, Hart, White, OG, etc. would be great as potential role players to put around Ja/JJJ and then you hope you are able to either sign a player (we now have cap space and can go after RFAs next offseason like Beasley, Brown, Sabonis, etc) or hit on one of our own picks in the next couple years since they should be pretty high. Or if we get super lucky we find the next Jokic or John Collins.

Another option for us is to use 23 and the TPE to move up in the draft. 12+MKG for 23 saves CHA salary if they are looking at resigning Kemba to a max deal. Miami is in a similar boat of wanting to shed salary.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#73 » by jman3134 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:14 pm

Whole Truth wrote:Jman the 2022 pick is when the league is supposedly lifting the age restriction.

"The Memphis Grizzlies have plans to listen to offers for the recently acquired 23rd pick of Thursday’s NBA Draft, according to David Aldridge of The Athletic". (I think they will use it in an attempt to trade up).

You can't sign any FA with a TPE. Memphis either let it expire into cap space or use it to absorb salary. The fact that this is a large 29m trade exception...

- any team interested in paying the price for a max contract is going to offer up pick collateral.

- any team that are trying to dump dead weight like Wiggins/Batum will offer up pick collateral.

Memphis got a lot of "potential value out of this deal which is yet unseen to most. Question is what they might have potentially lined up with that pseudo cap collateral?.


Pretty sure I am not off on how this works. I was analyzing potential trade scenarios for teams that would be realistically be looking to sign max free agents. My point has been there is a limited market for using the trade exception given expected situations for this year's top free agents. And my understanding is the exception expires in a year, no? I know you can't sign free agents with the trade exception. The trade from what I read took us down something like ~$13m (from memory) in salary. We aren't a factor in free agency at the moment and have never been. So we are generally going to overpay.

That was the scenario I listed- a Batum scenario. But, I analyzed it, and they probably could just sign Kemba for a close to max contract without having the need to trade with the Grizzlies. The value of our trade exception is only relative to what the market value is for dumping high salaried players. The teams realistically looking to add these max players - in my estimation - lack the young assets that we would be looking for in return for using our trade exception to take on salary in a trade scenario.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#74 » by jman3134 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:19 pm

Whole Truth wrote:Example.

Lets say Charlotte want to keep Kemba & add another FA, Memphis could take Bizz 17m expiring into that large trade exception with no salary heading back to Charlotte helping them get some financial flexibility which they sorely need.

(TPE 17m) for (Bizz, #12)


My counter to this is, who are they realistically looking to pair with Kemba in the current market that would be worth moving #12? This is where I am not seeing a realistic practical application.

Point being this deal only gets done if Charlotte values an avg level/below average level free agent signing to a higher salary than the player they could get at 12 on a rookie scale salary. I don't see anyone worth this for them.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#75 » by jman3134 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:37 pm

2022 is the exception to this rule. It is widely projected to be the "double draft" when the age gets lowered.


Ok - maybe it is a great pick, but it is still 3+ years out for an allstar level player now. I don't think that is commensurate value.

I actually think there is a drop-off after about 25 plus there is a decent chance someone falls due to how all over the place teams see the prospects in the 9-25 range.


Totally depends on who we select in this range, I agree. (from a pragmatic standpoint) We can't know that now, at the time of this trade. Our talent evaluation has not been great over the years (we have been one of the worst drafting teams), so I am a bit skeptical. This could change, obviously, and we could grab a steal. But, I personally see this positioning at #23 as worse than 2nd round value because we will be paying a higher salary rate and it is guaranteed.

The problem is that I don't think we had any better options. It sounds like Indy wasn't looking to part with Turner or Sabonis for Conley and that was our best hope at getting big time young talent.


This is why I am so upset! I think we didn't wait for the market to dictate Mike Conley's true value. We panicked early in free agency that we would be stuck with his high salary and took the best offer currently available. If we waited, I am pretty sure there would be a win now team looking for a point guard that we could have negotiated a better trade with. Now our asset is gone and we are looking to use our trade exception to help someone else get under the cap when they sign a big name free agent. But, we don't have any other worthwhile tradeable assets (we are willing to deal), which would generate any other value. And, I don't think it is likely that the teams signing max free agents absolutely need our trade exception to get deals done. So unless there is a specific positive deal in mind where we have leverage to ask for a Kuzma etc, I think we lost out on the trade big time.

You aren't getting a big time young guy or high draft pick unless you take on some really bad money. The only shot we have at that would be Miles Bridges+Batum and that is unlikely to happen. I know it isn't sexy, but the point of salary dumps is usually to give yourself additional swings at finding a decent young player in the back half of the first round. Look at past drafts. There are studs that go latter. The problem is identifying those studs is extremely difficult. Taking on salary for picks is you giving yourself an extra shot at finding the draft steal. Getting a Heurter, Shamet, Kuzma, Hart, White, OG, etc. would be great as potential role players to put around Ja/JJJ and then you hope you are able to either sign a player (we now have cap space and can go after RFAs next offseason like Beasley, Brown, Sabonis, etc) or hit on one of our own picks in the next couple years since they should be pretty high. Or if we get super lucky we find the next Jokic or John Collins.

Another option for us is to use 23 and the TPE to move up in the draft. 12+MKG for 23 saves CHA salary if they are looking at resigning Kemba to a max deal. Miami is in a similar boat of wanting to shed salary.


I understand that we will not get a big time young guy or high draft pick now (with only the trade exception) unless we take on bad money. With Conley, I think we had better leverage for a win now team. We are salary dumping, but do not have realistic, young free agency targets in mind that we wouldn't be paying the house to acquire. That is why we win by getting high draft picks and making trades. I don't think the trade exception in the current market is as marketable as Conley will be once Kemba/Kyrie sign. The point is we are not getting commensurate value for Conley. The number 23 pick in this draft isn't worth Conley, nor is the 23 plus a pick 3 years from now imho. My understanding of what Conley's market value should be is much higher.

I want the picks, but I believe they should be higher than 23.

I don't mind the MKG trade, if we could get that done. Again, I just think Charlotte doesn't need us and that lowers the trade exception's value in negotiations.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#76 » by VCfor3 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:46 pm

jman3134 wrote:
I don't mind the MKG trade, if we could get that done. Again, I just think Charlotte doesn't need us and that lowers the trade exception's value in negotiations.


With Conley being able to opt out after this season, being older, having a big contract, and his injury history I think his value wasn't as high as you have it pegged. I could be wrong and maybe someone moves a crazy deal for Conley later, but we will never know.

As for the CHA trade, it is to avoid the luxury tax more so than being able to sign someone though their MLE will be opened up by dumping one of their bigger contracts. Time will tell what the TPE will actually net and what the picks turn out to be.

I still think it was a good deal, not great/amazing/WOW but a good deal that highly likely was the best we could get. We also have been calling teams to see what they'd offer (even if it was after FA) so I think we had a rough idea of what offers could be there if we had waited.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#77 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:22 pm

jman3134 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Example.

Lets say Charlotte want to keep Kemba & add another FA, Memphis could take Bizz 17m expiring into that large trade exception with no salary heading back to Charlotte helping them get some financial flexibility which they sorely need.

(TPE 17m) for (Bizz, #12)


My counter to this is, who are they realistically looking to pair with Kemba in the current market that would be worth moving #12? This is where I am not seeing a realistic practical application.

Point being this deal only gets done if Charlotte values an avg level/below average level free agent signing to a higher salary than the player they could get at 12 on a rookie scale salary. I don't see anyone worth this for them.


OKC has made Adams available in trade to get under the tax, Charlotte have had a long need at C. They attempted trading for Gasol's 25m at the deadline.

OKC trade - (Adams 24m 2yrs) for (Zeller 13m) OKC save 11m

Charlotte trade - (Bizz 17m, Zeller 13m, #12) for (Adams 24m)

Memphis trade - (TPE 17m) for (Bizz, #12)


- All the money Charlotte had tied up in Bizz & Zeller equates to Adams salary, they upgrade
- OKC shed 11m to help them get under the tax (Could be more if necessary with a different contract)
- Memphis use 17m of the TPE on an expiring Bizz to facilitate OKC's need to shed salary for Charlotte's 12th.

The value Charlotte yield depends on the salary Memphis have to take on. Bizz give Memphis an expiring backup C with the 12th for 11m savings in this suggestion.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#78 » by jman3134 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:28 pm

^ If that is in their wheelhouse, again I am all for it. Also down for your Otto Porter suggestion. I am just skeptical on either of these getting done, but the Adams deal makes realistic sense overall.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#79 » by jman3134 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:40 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
jman3134 wrote:
I don't mind the MKG trade, if we could get that done. Again, I just think Charlotte doesn't need us and that lowers the trade exception's value in negotiations.


With Conley being able to opt out after this season, being older, having a big contract, and his injury history I think his value wasn't as high as you have it pegged. I could be wrong and maybe someone moves a crazy deal for Conley later, but we will never know.

As for the CHA trade, it is to avoid the luxury tax more so than being able to sign someone though their MLE will be opened up by dumping one of their bigger contracts. Time will tell what the TPE will actually net and what the picks turn out to be.

I still think it was a good deal, not great/amazing/WOW but a good deal that highly likely was the best we could get. We also have been calling teams to see what they'd offer (even if it was after FA) so I think we had a rough idea of what offers could be there if we had waited.


I had heard that about Conley's value around the league, based on rumors. I think if they waited, this would have changed significantly. That is why I am not happy. Exum, at the very least, should have been included in this trade just based on speculative relative value.

My point is that I don't see much value at all in this trade, and we could have gotten a higher first less than 3 yrs out. Conley is in an elite category of point guard free agents based on his performance last year. Look at the Rockets for example. Chris Paul has demanded a trade. He is on a worse contract and that team is in desperate need of a replacement and to win now. How are they going to do this seamlessly without losing significant value? Conley is definitely an option in a three team trade, though I can't conceive of a team that would be willing to take on that Chris Paul contract as the third team. There is a high probability Kemba resigns in Charlotte and Kyrie is almost guaranteed to be with the Nets at this point. Who is left for a team looking to contend?

The best options after these names are D'Angelo Russell, Ricky Rubio, and Patrick Beverly. Teams looking to contend are the Pacers, Celtics, Lakers, Rockets, and potentially the Knicks depending on who they sign. If the Bulls have an interest in Russell, that would only add to this fight for point guards. The price of Conley goes up as soon as Kemba and Kyrie sign officially. The Rockets have super limited options and they need to contend with their existing team. Do not forget about the Suns, who have significant assets and a very small chance at signing anyone to come play in their basketball abyss.

Yes, you are right on the MKG trade - I forgot for a minute he is a free agent.
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Re: Breaking News: Conley To Utah (update on PG 3) 

Post#80 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:47 pm

jman3134 wrote:^ If that is in their wheelhouse, again I am all for it. Also down for your Otto Porter suggestion. I am just skeptical on either of these getting done, but the Adams deal makes realistic sense overall.


Just like my Chicago hypothetical, it's more concept than accuracy. I don't get to talk to teams, I rely on leaked rumors to form an idea.

The Otto Porter suggestion comes with their potential interest in Russell as a FA. Chicago is after a PG & might miss out in the draft.

They only have 10m in cap & can't compete with teams in attempting to sign Russell, that's the leverage for Memphis in taking Porters 25m salary. Now while Porter has value as a player Memphis has no real incentive to take on that financial burden in a rebuild so that Chicago can net their PG of the future in FA.

It would basically depend on how interested they are in shedding that 20m for Russell.

If Brooklyn had Russell signed long term, would Chicago consider dealing Porter & the 6th pick for him?.

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