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Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price?

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Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#1 » by E S V L » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:13 pm

My position is yes. We should sign him for 9m/y for 3 years. Kyle then probably should become available. Can we trade him for the other team`s MLE? I don`t know if this is possible under the NBA rules. We traded Delon Wright somehow like this.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#2 » by VCfor3 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:58 am

You can only use the MLE to sign players, not as a trade exception. Dallas had a traded player exception (TPE) to take Wright into. As for Josh, I am happy to bring him back but for much less than 9m a year.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#3 » by Crizzle » Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:33 am

8.9m a year is the most we can pay him
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#4 » by E S V L » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:53 pm

VCfor3 wrote:You can only use the MLE to sign players, not as a trade exception. Dallas had a traded player exception (TPE) to take Wright into. As for Josh, I am happy to bring him back but for much less than 9m a year.


Much less? Let`s repeat Carroll` and Whiteside` cases? What are the grounds for such a modest evaluation?

PS Thanks for the trade rules explanation.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#5 » by VCfor3 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:42 pm

E S V L wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:You can only use the MLE to sign players, not as a trade exception. Dallas had a traded player exception (TPE) to take Wright into. As for Josh, I am happy to bring him back but for much less than 9m a year.


Much less? Let`s repeat Carroll` and Whiteside` cases? What are the grounds for such a modest evaluation?

PS Thanks for the trade rules explanation.


Josh Jackson has had some good games, but he still struggles with shooting and is looking like a bench player to me. We currently look like we will either have or be able to easily get to a max spot in 2021. I'd love to have him back, but his current production is replaceable and I'd rather not clutter our cap for a bench player when we may actually have a shot at drawing a top free agent. So yeah I wouldn't want to give him the MLE and would rather give him 3m a year even if that means it is only a 2-3 year deal with a Player Option. If he busts then 3m can be moved with a 2nd where as 10m in a strong free agent class would likely take a 1st round pick.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#6 » by E S V L » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:35 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
E S V L wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:You can only use the MLE to sign players, not as a trade exception. Dallas had a traded player exception (TPE) to take Wright into. As for Josh, I am happy to bring him back but for much less than 9m a year.


Much less? Let`s repeat Carroll` and Whiteside` cases? What are the grounds for such a modest evaluation?

PS Thanks for the trade rules explanation.


Josh Jackson has had some good games, but he still struggles with shooting and is looking like a bench player to me. We currently look like we will either have or be able to easily get to a max spot in 2021. I'd love to have him back, but his current production is replaceable and I'd rather not clutter our cap for a bench player when we may actually have a shot at drawing a top free agent. So yeah I wouldn't want to give him the MLE and would rather give him 3m a year even if that means it is only a 2-3 year deal with a Player Option. If he busts then 3m can be moved with a 2nd where as 10m in a strong free agent class would likely take a 1st round pick.


I see him as an upgrade over Anderson on our bench. I am surprised by how are you underestimating Josh`s performance after all-star weekend games. Our bench has arguably been the best in NBA before the suspension and Jackson contributed a lot to this amazing transformation. My idea is to give him 26m for 3 years, trade Anderson for an expiring contract, and then let Zach hunt for the third star. This plan allows us to target a star on the market while keeping a very decent roster: Ja - Brooks - Winslow - JJJ - JV (bench: Tyus - Melton - Jackson - Clarke - Dieng).

And I don`t see any reason for him to bust. He has proved himself in my eyes.

Finally, I wouldn`t overestimate our chances on the open market in 2021.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#7 » by VCfor3 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:28 am

E S V L wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
E S V L wrote:
Much less? Let`s repeat Carroll` and Whiteside` cases? What are the grounds for such a modest evaluation?

PS Thanks for the trade rules explanation.


Josh Jackson has had some good games, but he still struggles with shooting and is looking like a bench player to me. We currently look like we will either have or be able to easily get to a max spot in 2021. I'd love to have him back, but his current production is replaceable and I'd rather not clutter our cap for a bench player when we may actually have a shot at drawing a top free agent. So yeah I wouldn't want to give him the MLE and would rather give him 3m a year even if that means it is only a 2-3 year deal with a Player Option. If he busts then 3m can be moved with a 2nd where as 10m in a strong free agent class would likely take a 1st round pick.


I see him as an upgrade over Anderson on our bench. I am surprised by how are you underestimating Josh`s performance after all-star weekend games. Our bench has arguably been the best in NBA before the suspension and Jackson contributed a lot to this amazing transformation. My idea is to give him 26m for 3 years, trade Anderson for an expiring contract, and then let Zach hunt for the third star. This plan allows us to target a star on the market while keeping a very decent roster: Ja - Brooks - Winslow - JJJ - JV (bench: Tyus - Melton - Jackson - Clarke - Dieng).

And I don`t see any reason for him to bust. He has proved himself in my eyes.

Finally, I wouldn`t overestimate our chances on the open market in 2021.


Anderson was a huge part of our bench when he was there and Tyus going supernova with Dieng as the defensive anchor has propelled us since. Anderson is also a better passer and rebounder. Anderson plays well as a secondary creator for our bench unit and we definitely need any and all rebounding help when can get especially with JV off the court. I'm fine with taking Josh over Anderson, but I still give Anderson the edge as the better player for us right now. The main boon of Josh is that defenses respect his 3pt shot slightly more though he isn't hitting at a very good rate. I also don't know what the market will be for Anderson and who would have interest if we decided to try and move him.

I'm hesitant to let an 11 game sample size be enough to convince me that he won't struggle moving forward. I'd want to see more which makes the season's early end that much more painful. On the plus side this may really hurt the salary cap so there is a chance we can get Josh and Melton back on bargain deals due to what little money out there drying up even more before FA starts.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#8 » by wco81 » Thu Jul 2, 2020 9:13 pm

Couple of wings who got a lot of playing time failed to improve their shooting during their rookie deals.

Stanley Johnson was let go by the Pistons after his rookie deal, played for 1 year with Pels for $1.4 million and then Raptors gave him a 2-year $7.4 million deal.

Rondae Hollis Jefferson was let go by the Nets after his rookie deal and signed a 1-year deal for $2.5 million with the Raptors.

RHJ gets 19 MPG and Johnson gets only 5 MPG. They're both bricking it, both well under 20% from 3-point range.

Athletic wings who can't shoot don't get minutes or money.

It's incredible that Jackson was such a high pick. But maybe he still has too much talent to give up on -- he's 23. He may improve his shooting efficiency but his FT percentages have always been under 70%.

So even his shooting ceiling may be average at best.

Can he do other things like defend or finish at a high enough rate? I don't know his shooting % in the restricted area but overall he's shooting in the low 40s throughout his career which suggests that even with all the perimeter shots he's taking, he's not that great a finisher.

Still some team may sign him on potential but maybe around $5 million a year at most?

Warriors have coaxed Marques Chriss to have some of the best production of his career, even on a bad team. I don't know if they or any other team can get more out of Jackson.

Can he mainly be a secondary player who catches and shoots to space out the court or attack closeouts? Or does he need the ball to try to create shots for himself?
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#9 » by VCfor3 » Thu Jul 2, 2020 9:36 pm

Josh was able to show flashes at times for us near the end of the season, but I really don't know what he can reliably become. I think someone will take a flyer on him with Memphis being a strong possibility. I just don't see a long term contract and think $5m a year isn't a bad guess.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#10 » by Curtis Lemansky » Mon Nov 9, 2020 12:17 pm

what happened to this guy at the bubble?
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#11 » by Whole Truth » Mon Nov 9, 2020 2:05 pm

VCfor3 wrote:Josh was able to show flashes at times for us near the end of the season, but I really don't know what he can reliably become. I think someone will take a flyer on him with Memphis being a strong possibility. I just don't see a long term contract and think $5m a year isn't a bad guess.


A 23yo showing flashes of his potential. I wouldn't be quick to let him go. Especially when in a worse case scenario, landing a high pick in 2021 is not the worst thing that could happen for this teams future..

I'd offer him a year, with a team option. Depending on his play, he'd have value in trade both with his potential & as an expiring asset, if not kept or let go.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#12 » by VCfor3 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:37 am

Curtis Lemansky wrote:what happened to this guy at the bubble?

Honestly we are kinda wondering the same. He really didn't get much run at a time when our roster was kinda depleted. Feels like the team had already moved past him.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#13 » by E S V L » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:37 am

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Josh was able to show flashes at times for us near the end of the season, but I really don't know what he can reliably become. I think someone will take a flyer on him with Memphis being a strong possibility. I just don't see a long term contract and think $5m a year isn't a bad guess.


A 23yo showing flashes of his potential. I wouldn't be quick to let him go. Especially when in a worse case scenario, landing a high pick in 2021 is not the worst thing that could happen for this teams future..

I'd offer him a year, with a team option. Depending on his play, he'd have value in trade both with his potential & as an expiring asset, if not kept or let go.


I have given up on him. He showed a complete lack of BBIQ.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#14 » by VCfor3 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:38 am

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Josh was able to show flashes at times for us near the end of the season, but I really don't know what he can reliably become. I think someone will take a flyer on him with Memphis being a strong possibility. I just don't see a long term contract and think $5m a year isn't a bad guess.


A 23yo showing flashes of his potential. I wouldn't be quick to let him go. Especially when in a worse case scenario, landing a high pick in 2021 is not the worst thing that could happen for this teams future..

I'd offer him a year, with a team option. Depending on his play, he'd have value in trade both with his potential & as an expiring asset, if not kept or let go.

Depends on the price and if we have an extra roster spot. I'm fine giving him another year unless he wasn't good for the locker room or something. I assume there was a reason we didn't play him much in the bubble.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#15 » by Whole Truth » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:47 am

E S V L wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Josh was able to show flashes at times for us near the end of the season, but I really don't know what he can reliably become. I think someone will take a flyer on him with Memphis being a strong possibility. I just don't see a long term contract and think $5m a year isn't a bad guess.


A 23yo showing flashes of his potential. I wouldn't be quick to let him go. Especially when in a worse case scenario, landing a high pick in 2021 is not the worst thing that could happen for this teams future..

I'd offer him a year, with a team option. Depending on his play, he'd have value in trade both with his potential & as an expiring asset, if not kept or let go.


I have given up on him. He showed a complete lack of BBIQ.


You started the topic by stating you'd resign him, 9m, 3yrs
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#16 » by VCfor3 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:59 am

Whole Truth wrote:
E S V L wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
A 23yo showing flashes of his potential. I wouldn't be quick to let him go. Especially when in a worse case scenario, landing a high pick in 2021 is not the worst thing that could happen for this teams future..

I'd offer him a year, with a team option. Depending on his play, he'd have value in trade both with his potential & as an expiring asset, if not kept or let go.


I have given up on him. He showed a complete lack of BBIQ.


You started the topic by stating you'd resign him, 9m, 3yrs

He did but that was also before the bubble happened. Josh finished the season strong before COVID, but then got little to no playing time in the bubble even at times where you'd have thought we could have used him. If we aren't going to play him, no point in wasting money on him beyond this year. There could also have been stuff behind the scenes we didn't know about.

Josh still has some potential, but it seems our coaching staff doesn't feel it is likely enough to materialize to be worth pursuing. Right or wrong, if they aren't going to put the time in with him then might as well try signing a different young player that they'd have more interest in developing.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#17 » by E S V L » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:35 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
E S V L wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
A 23yo showing flashes of his potential. I wouldn't be quick to let him go. Especially when in a worse case scenario, landing a high pick in 2021 is not the worst thing that could happen for this teams future..

I'd offer him a year, with a team option. Depending on his play, he'd have value in trade both with his potential & as an expiring asset, if not kept or let go.


I have given up on him. He showed a complete lack of BBIQ.


You started the topic by stating you'd resign him, 9m, 3yrs


I was his fan, yes. The bubble has changed a lot. He should have stepped up in for Winslow but failed. What is critical is that he failed in both roles - as a starting sf and a bench sf.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#18 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:57 pm

E S V L wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
E S V L wrote:
I have given up on him. He showed a complete lack of BBIQ.


You started the topic by stating you'd resign him, 9m, 3yrs


I was his fan, yes. The bubble has changed a lot. He should have stepped up in for Winslow but failed. What is critical is that he failed in both roles - as a starting sf and a bench sf.


Sorry ESVL, didn't realize this was an old topic.

Having said that, Josh played 15mins vs Portland & 5 mins vs Spurs in the bubble. I don't get to see what happens behind the scenes to know if there's a deeper rooted issue. If not & the decision is based solely on his play in the bubble, I wouldn't be judging a 23yo's career based on 20mins of play in 2 games after a 3 month lockdown.

I believe Memphis would benefit by taking a step back in 21 long term, where a 1yr + team option shouldn't hurt if there's no deeper rooted issue. At worse, Josh would be an expiring with the team option, which could be combined in trade to help a team cut payroll, if nothing else.

By this standard of judgement, Dillon Brooks play, tunnel vision, single handily cost Memphis several games in the bubble.
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Re: Should we sign Josh Jackson and at what price? 

Post#20 » by wco81 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:16 pm

Strange that they don't say what they're going to pay him.

Former high lotto pick, what did he have to settle for?

Kris Dunn, I think from the same draft class, was let go by the Bulls and had to take a deal a bit over the minimum to sign with Hawks.

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