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Offseason Discussion

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E S V L
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#101 » by E S V L » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:06 am

VCfor3 wrote:
E S V L wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:MEM in: TPE
MEM out: Anderson

GSW in: Anderson, Rose
GSW out: TPE, 2021 Top 20 protected 1st

DET in: TPE, 2021 Top 20 Protected 1st
DET out: Rose

Memphis gets a 9.5m TPE that can be used for a potential salary dump. GSW gets depth while keeping their high end picks. Detroit gets their 1st for Rose.

It is a fairly small deal but we get more cap in 2021 plus could maybe do something like Hood+2nd into the TPE to net an additional small asset.


Easy no from me unless there is a clear, not hypothetical, purpose for getting TRE.

I saw it as a free salary dump at worst. Do you think Anderson can actually get a somewhat respectable 3pt shot?


He has already got it. I am surprised you haven’t noticed.

A salary dump? For what? We are a PO team and Kyle is a legit NBA wing.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#102 » by SD2042 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:41 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
E S V L wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Culver was really bad last year. I don't think I want to eat Horford for him.


I actually like this return as I am high on Culver.

On a side note, no way Simmons might be traded for this return.


The Minnesota/Philly/OKC part of the trade was lifted from the Minnesota/Philly boards.

The only part of the trade concept that's mine, is inserting Memphis to satisfy OKC's need/demand to not want to take on salary in moving Paul.



With Culver, defensively he's decent with the potential to get much better. Offensively is where I'm having my issues with him. I respect that his first season in the league was very underwhelming. Keep in mind the Wolves aren't the best team at developing talent. My concerns is that will Culver will develop a better sense of consistency to better himself in the long run on offense. Maybe with the right development team, he may have a chance. I'm not all the way convice he would be the player the Grizzlies should take a chance on right now.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#103 » by E S V L » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:11 pm

Culver has a wing size, BBIQ, and talent. With all of these, there is usually a small chance that it won’t end up in something good.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#104 » by Whole Truth » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:20 pm

From the Minnesota board to get a sense of the top pick value & in turn the GS pick.

Insider - NBASupes latest post on Hawksquawk:

"I've been told Minny has up to 12 teams who have given them offers for 1st overall. I was told Indy was by far the most interested but was declined as they only want to move one of Turner or Sabonis and that's it. Minny would like Warren and one of them. Indy is willing to trade Warren/Oladipo but Minny wants assurance on Dipo which will not happen and Indy sees Warren as a main piece.

Minny wants a pick swap with a top 8 team and a 2021 lightly protected 1st like Atlanta got from Dallas. I was told, no one was interested. Minny offered Atlanta the pick for a pick swap and Hunter and was quickly declined and they did the same for Kevin H and was quickly declined as Atlanta had no interest in trading anyone in their core. Atlanta did counter with Bruno and #6 and was declined. As of right now, i am told a sitting offer of 1st/James Johnson for #6 and OKC 1st 2022 is the standing offer. They tired the same with NY. Wanted Robinson/#8 for #1 and was declined. NY offered 8/27 for 1st overall as a standing offer.

Most of the teams who have made a standing offer with Minny are drafting outside of the top 10 and are playoff level teams. I was told that the target of that pick varies. I was told, none of the offers are really that attractive and that Minny is hoping a team will fall in love with a prospect and move up as we get closer to the draft. He thinks they will try to go back to Indy to really do a deal as Indy has the best package on the open market. I asked if Minny does just move back, which deal do they like more, ATL or NY. He said he doesn't know but he thinks Atlanta willingness to take on money could swing the pendulum to Atlanta.

He is confident CP3 will end up either in Philly or New York and even more confident NY will get a PG in the draft, via trade or FA. This is why NY isn't hard on moving up to get Ball. They have options. I did asked what would Atlanta do if they landed #1, and he said they will likely flip it. There are some extremely attractive rentals on the open market and this might make Atlanta think about getting one of them considering where they want to go as an org without trading a core piece. No, Giannis is not available, FYI."
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#105 » by Whole Truth » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:39 pm

1, Minny wants a pick swap with a top 8 team and a 2021 lightly protected 1st like Atlanta got from Dallas but the teams top 8 aren't interested in adding the lightly protected FRP.

Top 8 interest, I think Minnesota are looking to trade down for one of Onyeka or Vassell.

2, Sitting offer of 1st/James Johnson for #6 and OKC 1st 2022

OKC 2022 is top 14 protected. Memphis Utah pick has potentially better value top 6 protected 2022, when Utah have to find answers for Gobert & Ingles expiring, 2 key starters.

3, Both Knicks & Hawks turned down a starter (Robinson/Hunter) or (future lightly protected 1st) & pick swap top 8.

I ask does Minnesota need to stay in the draft to move the pick?. Their top preference was 2yrs of Turner & Olidipo giving the nod on an extension.

4, Atlanta willingness to take on money could swing the pendulum to Atlanta.

What possibilities exist if Memphis can land GS 17m TPE to take on Johnson?. or have GS take Johnson on in a packages deal for #2

5, Confident CP3 will end up either in Philly or New York.

For Philly to land CP3, OKC won't want Horford or Harris. What potential assets could Memphis land for offering up their expiring value contracts like Dieng for Phillies dead weight or to meet OKC's financial need to shed salary ....(Give me OKC/Houston 2024 & Philly lightly protected FRP to facilitate the salary dump for OKC).

OKC's owner was already financially conscious in their decisions & he's probably the hardest hit by the Covid pandemic ... Memphis can save him considerable money taking on salary in this deal for pick assets.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#106 » by Whole Truth » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:40 am

Per Sports Illustrated's Jeremy Woo, the Mavs are shopping the 18th overall pick "in hopes of landing immediate rotation help."

Woo noted they will avoid taking on long-term money" in a potential deal.

Based on their interest to be players for Giannis.

If Mavs were interested, would Memphis consider dealing Winslow for #18 ?.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#107 » by SD2042 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:50 am

E S V L wrote:Culver has a wing size, BBIQ, and talent. With all of these, there is usually a small chance that it won’t end up in something good.


I'm not doubting his BBIQ. Culver sounds like a smart kid. and he's solid on defense. It's just his offense that concerns me a bit. I hope he works on his game more as his career goes further. Regardless if he gets traded here or playing somewhere else.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#108 » by E S V L » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:31 am

SD2042 wrote:
E S V L wrote:Culver has a wing size, BBIQ, and talent. With all of these, there is usually a small chance that it won’t end up in something good.


I'm not doubting his BBIQ. Culver sounds like a smart kid. and he's solid on defense. It's just his offense that concerns me a bit. I hope he works on his game more as his career goes further. Regardless if he gets traded here or playing somewhere else.


Which part of his offence concerns you the most?
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#109 » by SD2042 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:48 am

E S V L wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
E S V L wrote:Culver has a wing size, BBIQ, and talent. With all of these, there is usually a small chance that it won’t end up in something good.


I'm not doubting his BBIQ. Culver sounds like a smart kid. and he's solid on defense. It's just his offense that concerns me a bit. I hope he works on his game more as his career goes further. Regardless if he gets traded here or playing somewhere else.


Which part of his offence concerns you the most?



His shooting mechanics is not great. When Culver goes into his shooting motion, he tends to set up from below the hip and launches it towards the basket. He's not shooting the ball naturally to the point of giving his shot the opportunity to go through the progression of going into the basket. This is leading to his questionable stats from the field such as his 3PT shooting(29%) and free throw shooting(46%). Albeit this is his rookie season, he already had question marks concerning his offense consistency coming into the 2019 NBA Draft. Unless he continues to work on his offense and change his shooting mechanics and foundation, his issues on offense will hinder him for the seeable future.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#110 » by VCfor3 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:31 pm

The Rockets may go full tear down with Morey gone. Think they hope to have a new young team ready to try for the playoffs by the time their owed picks come due from the CP/RW swap.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#111 » by Whole Truth » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:26 pm

VCfor3 wrote:The Rockets may go full tear down with Morey gone. Think they hope to have a new young team ready to try for the playoffs by the time their owed picks come due from the CP/RW swap.


Depending on the cost I'd have PJ Tucker as a S&T target. (Could Memphis S&T Josh or Melton for a S&T Tucker?).

His versatility as a defender Memphis can use him anywhere from 2-5. He'll bring a physicality, toughness & heart in leadership, I think this young team needs in it's veteran leadership & he's money from the corners.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#112 » by E S V L » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:06 pm

What about Tobias Harris for Brooks and Dieng as a basis? We add elite scoring/shooting. The guy fits well along either Justise, Kyle, Clarke. Good veteran presence. I am aware of his contract, but it looks manageable - we would be able to keep our core anyway. Thoughts?
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#113 » by VCfor3 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:20 pm

E S V L wrote:What about Tobias Harris for Brooks and Dieng as a basis? We add elite scoring/shooting. The guy fits well along either Justise, Kyle, Clarke. Good veteran presence. I am aware of his contract, but it looks manageable - we would be able to keep our core anyway. Thoughts?

I'd want them to add pretty significant compensation due to his albatross of a contract. That would kill our cap sheet for a while and since I don't think he is worth it (though he is good) I'd want to be paid for helping them out of a bind. His last year will overlap with JJJ's extension I believe so we may have tax problems that year potentially.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#114 » by E S V L » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:36 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
E S V L wrote:What about Tobias Harris for Brooks and Dieng as a basis? We add elite scoring/shooting. The guy fits well along either Justise, Kyle, Clarke. Good veteran presence. I am aware of his contract, but it looks manageable - we would be able to keep our core anyway. Thoughts?

I'd want them to add pretty significant compensation due to his albatross of a contract. That would kill our cap sheet for a while and since I don't think he is worth it (though he is good) I'd want to be paid for helping them out of a bind. His last year will overlap with JJJ's extension I believe so we may have tax problems that year potentially.


Look at this as though it is a free agent signing: which FA we will be able to sign instead? Anyone better than Harris?
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#115 » by VCfor3 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:16 pm

E S V L wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
E S V L wrote:What about Tobias Harris for Brooks and Dieng as a basis? We add elite scoring/shooting. The guy fits well along either Justise, Kyle, Clarke. Good veteran presence. I am aware of his contract, but it looks manageable - we would be able to keep our core anyway. Thoughts?

I'd want them to add pretty significant compensation due to his albatross of a contract. That would kill our cap sheet for a while and since I don't think he is worth it (though he is good) I'd want to be paid for helping them out of a bind. His last year will overlap with JJJ's extension I believe so we may have tax problems that year potentially.


Look at this as though it is a free agent signing: which FA we will be able to sign instead? Anyone better than Harris?

His best position is power forward which is where JJJ is. We can slot him in at SF but he just doesn't do quite as well there. Off the top of my head someone like Hield may be a better option since he has a chance to be one of the best 3pt shooters in the league any given season with Ja setting him up. I'd be worried about him and Ja defensively, but Hield's contract is descending and I think will retain its value better. Hield is not getting along well with Walton/SAC and probably wants out so could be had for cheap/cap space potentially. As for free agents, you probably could get Hayward for less/a better contract and I think he may fit our team better if he can come back from his injury looking healthy. He was playing well this season. Josh Richardson would likely be a lot cheaper and could play a position we need more even though Harris is better. Otto Porter Jr would be significantly cheaper and if he can get healthy may actually be the better player. The problem is his health, but you may get a great deal because of that. RFAs I'd consider throwing a sizeable contract at and dare the other team to match would be players like Markannaan, Josh Hart, John Collins, Zach Collins, Josh Hart, Gary Trent, Duncan Robinson, and maybe a max at OG while TOR is trying to sign Giannis. Those guys are either better or would be cheaper and all younger/fit the timeline better than Harris. We may even have enough cap left over for a salary dump+assets and then use said assets to turn one of the above offer sheets into a S&T so that the other team doesn't match.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#116 » by SD2042 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:10 am

VCfor3 wrote:The Rockets may go full tear down with Morey gone. Think they hope to have a new young team ready to try for the playoffs by the time their owed picks come due from the CP/RW swap.



I'm not too sure if rebuilding is the best option. At least for right now. Sure they are in freefall with both MDA and Morey now gone. Sometimes, in freefall, you have to be mindful of making rash moves. The worst time to make an impulsive move is during freefall. I would tweak around the roster to support Harden at least for this upcoming season. If the future moves the new GM makes doesn't work, (nor I expect it to work) then look to rebuild the Rockets in 21/22 offseason and go from there.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#117 » by VCfor3 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:58 pm

Someone I forgot to throw in as a possible 2021 target is Jonathan Isaac. Super big risk given his injury history, but that may depress his market enough that you can get him for a decent price while Orlando/whoever is hesitant to match. Him plus JJJ if JJJ can figure things out to be consistently elite defensively could anchor a championship level defense. Just need that wing stopper (hoping Winslow can fill that role).
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#118 » by VCfor3 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:13 pm

The Athletic is doing a top 125 players ranking and this is where they are at so far. Interesting to see where they think some of our guys are even though there are plenty of players on the list I'd personally have in a different category (I'd have Westbrook lower for example. LOL at OPJ and Wall even though they are ignoring injuries).

Image

Ja 3C (Ahead of Fox and tied with Zion, Porzingis, Young, and Brown)
JJJ 4B (Tied with Collins and Turner)
Clarke 5A (Tied with Herro)
JV 5A
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#119 » by Whole Truth » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:38 pm

I've had Memphis trading in to this draft @ 1 or 2 thinking Onyeka would be gone top 5. Recent report claims Deni impressed the Warriors to where they might take him as high as 2, if not in a trade down to 4 with the Bulls.

Potential top 4 of this draft - Edwards, Deni, Wiseman, Ball, with Cavs reported to like Toppin & Detroit making their pick available...

I'm thinking Memphis could trade in at 6 & have either Onyeka or Vassell to choose from where Detroit reportedly want a more proven young asset, maybe some cap relief & or multiple assets.

Memphis S&T Josh or Melton with the GS 24 top4 pick to Detroit for #6 & a dead weight filler.

Memphis could beef up the trade package by adding one of Winslow or Anderson, maybe even Deing's expiring to take on more dead weight salary?..

Would Memphis consider taking on Blake's 2yrs 36m for the 6th pick, assuming he'd pick up his player option in 22 ?.

Memphis trade - (Dieng 17m 1yr, Winslow 15m 1yr + 15m PO, Melton S&T) for (Blake 36n 1yr + PO, #6)

Assuming there's no way Blake declines his PO in 22. Memphis are buying the 6th pick for 18-20m savings roughly. Where If Injured, Memphis could use player insurance to cover his financial hit.

Detroit get a young wing, 2 defensive wings & can decline Winslow to save 38m in 2022 for the 6th pick, Memphis keep their future FRP's for taking on a large contract but short 2yr financial hit.. It may be a financial overpay for the 6th pick but I believe in short term sacrifice for long term gain.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#120 » by VCfor3 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:59 pm

Was just kinda looking around at some various young guys and noting their stats (Pts, Reb, Ast, and Stocks are per 100 possessions). Sorry the spacing gets ruined when posted. Hit "quote" and I think you can see it spaced out.

    Position Name Pts Reb Ast Stocks OBPM DBPM BPM VORP eFG 3pt% PER WS Age
    SG/SF Jaylen Brown 28.9 6.8 2.2 2.1 1 -0.2 0.8 1.4 55.4 38.2 16.9 4.9 23-364
    SF Mikal Bridges 15.5 6.8 3 3.5 -0.6 1.5 0.8 1.5 58.3 36.1 12.9 4.8 24-053
    SF OG Anunoby 16.9 8.4 2.5 3.2 -0.8 1.9 1.2 1.7 58.4 39 13.2 5.7 23-097
    C Myles Turner 19.9 10.8 1.9 4.7 -1 1.1 0.1 1 53 34.4 14.8 4.2 24-212
    SG Zach Lavine 35.3 6.7 5.9 2.6 3.2 -0.8 2.4 2.4 52.6 38 19.4 4 25-226
    SG/SF. Duncan Robinson 22.2 5.2 2.3 1.2 1.5 -1 0.5 1.3 66.7 44.6 13.1 5.3 26-183
    PF John Collins 30.3 14.2 2.1 3.4 3.7 -0.6 3.1 1.7 63.2 40.1 23.5 4.9 23-029

I like the idea of trying to find a way to get John Collins and OG if the opportunity presents itself. My hope is that Atlanta balks at a contract extension in the range Collins wants and so we can either trade for him, offer him a very large contract next offseason and hope Atlanta doesn't match, or aim for a S&T and send Atlanta a 1st or something. OG will be harder to get. If he ends up in part of a trade package then maybe we can find a way to insert ourselves and snag him. Otherwise we can try to offer him a very large deal next offseason and hope Toronto doesn't match (though I think they will) or maybe see if they have interest in a S&T which seems unlikely unless they feel they can't afford him for whatever reason.

Ja/Tyus
Winslow?/Melton
OG/Brooks
Collins/Clarke
JJJ/JV

That's a heck of a team. Our bench would arguably be the best in the league. Collins can help with JJJ's rebounding problem. JJJ provides the rim protection while OG looks down the best opposing wing. Winslow can defend 1-4. Ja and Collins are not total liabilities on defense but also aren't studs. I think the others can cover for them though. OG, Collins, and JJJ can light it up from deep with Ja setting them up. Winslow hopefully finds his shot and provides secondary playmaking. I know we probably have to include at least one of those players in a S&T due to cap constraints and that team would get expensive when Ja and JJJ need extensions, but I think we could have a real shot at contending with that lineup.

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