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Offseason Discussion

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E S V L
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#161 » by E S V L » Fri Nov 6, 2020 2:21 am

VCfor3 wrote:
E S V L wrote:Re Clarke:

Zion?
Pascal?

Re Ja:

Simmons?
Luka?

Clarke is very good, but if you can upgrade him then you do. Clarke either is a 6th man, potentially gets some run at SF, or can be moved for a player at another position if Zion or Pascal are gotten.

Simmons I don't mind as he can be a lock down defender plus provided additional playmaking which we need (though hopefully Winslow can provide that for us since Simmons isn't an option). Luka is an MVP candidate already. With Ja and Luka you always have one on the court and then when both are on the court it forces defenses to focus in on both of them thus opening up JJJ and others for great looks. Both also are high IQ guys who make others better. I think they'd be able to make it work.


1. Clarke is highly likely a starter, isn’t he?

2. Simmons can’t shoot - how can he play alongside Ja?

3. Honestly, I love Luka. He is #2 after Ja. I want to argue against him, but I can’t go against my own feelings.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#162 » by E S V L » Fri Nov 6, 2020 2:23 am

I wonder who are the most available from all the players mentioned above?
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#163 » by VCfor3 » Fri Nov 6, 2020 4:29 am

E S V L wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
E S V L wrote:Re Clarke:

Zion?
Pascal?

Re Ja:

Simmons?
Luka?

Clarke is very good, but if you can upgrade him then you do. Clarke either is a 6th man, potentially gets some run at SF, or can be moved for a player at another position if Zion or Pascal are gotten.

Simmons I don't mind as he can be a lock down defender plus provided additional playmaking which we need (though hopefully Winslow can provide that for us since Simmons isn't an option). Luka is an MVP candidate already. With Ja and Luka you always have one on the court and then when both are on the court it forces defenses to focus in on both of them thus opening up JJJ and others for great looks. Both also are high IQ guys who make others better. I think they'd be able to make it work.


1. Clarke is highly likely a starter, isn’t he?

2. Simmons can’t shoot - how can he play alongside Ja?

3. Honestly, I love Luka. He is #2 after Ja. I want to argue against him, but I can’t go against my own feelings.

1. Yes we hope Clarke is a starter but you still can upgrade.
2. He isn't maybe the best fit for that reason, but he is a potential DPOY candidate that would really solidify things for us on that end. You also would have Ja and Simmons alternate who initiates the offense when both are on the court and would always have one on the court when the other sits. I think everyone else being able to shoot around Simmons could open stuff up for him and maybe even let him operate in the paint when Ja is initiating from the top of key. Ideally though this would keep Ja fresh throughout the game instead of him getting run down which happened in the bubble when no one else was a high level initiated and Ja started playing more minutes.
3. Like I said, I think both Luka and Ja are so good they'd make it work. Luka also is better than Ja even though I love Ja to death and think he fits our city even beyond the court so well.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#164 » by VCfor3 » Fri Nov 6, 2020 4:33 am

E S V L wrote:I wonder who are the most available from all the players mentioned above?

Huerter is probably the most available/gettable for us. Ony and Vassell would be the next most attainable I'd think.

I think you could trade the UTA pick and #40 to maybe get a pick high enough to get one of Ony or Vassell if they drop a little. I think you could also trade the UTA pick for Huerter plus some fairly small asset from Atlanta so thus see it as Hurter is more available/attainable.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#165 » by Whole Truth » Fri Nov 6, 2020 2:03 pm

Morant is not like Luka or Young, he doesn't need to dominate the ball to be effective. He won ROY, putting up 18 & 7 on a 25% usage.. where neither Luka or Young have been under 30% usage, even in their rookie seasons.

Simmons as a transition player, ball handler, unlike Luka, also operates on a 20-22% usage rate but is a versatile, big wing defender which compliments Ja better, defensively. The obvious issue being spacing ... but to be effective in transition where Ja is, you also need defensive stops, ball pressure & denial.

Addressing spacing issues.. With Simmons playing forward/front court, with 3J/Clarke instead of a slow footed Embiid. He's paired with 3J 6, 3's a game on 40% & Clarke looking like he'd be a reliable threat from the corners, where Simmons effectively becomes the defensive non shooting 5 in this position less league in that scenario.

That then draws a comparison to how Bucks utilize Giannis who gets boxed out in the playoffs as a C. What's the difference?. Giannis is the primary ball handler #1 option, where Memphis would have Ja.

Simmons, Pascal & Onyeka as targets = versatility (Simmons 1-5), speed, motor & defense leading to offense. Onyeka like Simmons is a rim protector lacking range but none questioned that choice, why?. The perception that Simmons inability to shoot is the reason for Philly's downfall when they looked overmatched without him against Boston this past playoffs, If Embiid was the player everyone believes him to be !!!!... Simmons lack of spacing, is not why they lost, easily, to Boston.

When I was suggesting for Pascal to start with the Raptors during their Championship rum with the Kawhi & Green acquisition, he was not yet a reliable threat from range, it was an unknown variable. He became a threat over the course of the season. Pascal's speed was utilized to put pressure on teams in the open court off of Kawhi & Greens defensive capabilities, which Raptors didn't have with Derozan.

Memphis didn't exactly as a team space the court well this past season, to where it's a need in their early success. Post Crowder trade, teams didn't respect & sagged off of Anderson, who's not as quick, talented as Simmons. Which is why he worked on his shot & release during the shut down but he was playing at SF mainly where theoretically I have Simmons playing the 5 with Jonas, who was also helping to clog the lane, going to an effective deep bench.

Simmons, 3J/Clarke, "3&D", "3&D", Ja
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#166 » by E S V L » Fri Nov 6, 2020 3:53 pm

Assuming we sign Melton,
1. should we trade both Kyle and Grayson?
2. what should we expect in terms of return?
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#167 » by VCfor3 » Fri Nov 6, 2020 5:46 pm

E S V L wrote:Assuming we sign Melton,
1. should we trade both Kyle and Grayson?
2. what should we expect in terms of return?

I don't know if the return would be worth it this offseason. Maybe if Kyle and/or Grayson play well this season and we as a team are kinda meh then we can move them and pseudo-tank, but otherwise I don't really see a team offering much. I think Kyle needs to show he can be at least mildly effective from deep for a longer stretch than just the bubble and Allen needs to prove the bubble performance is real. Due to the cap not going up I think teams will be a bit more frugal and so will be less willing to gamble on those players unless there isn't a better option available.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#168 » by E S V L » Sun Nov 8, 2020 3:48 pm

Kyle and Grayson are both positive assets, in my view. They both can bring some positive return, though obviously not more than moderate.

Their trade though would make sense only if there is a target on the table, so we would need to consolidate assets for the right price. The target can be a current NBA player who has potential for growth or a draft prospect who our FO likes.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#169 » by SD2042 » Sun Nov 8, 2020 11:39 pm

E S V L wrote:Kyle and Grayson are both positive assets, in my view. They both can bring some positive return, though obviously not more than moderate.

Their trade though would make sense only if there is a target on the table, so we would need to consolidate assets for the right price. The target can be a current NBA player who has potential for growth or a draft prospect who our FO likes.


Let's say these two players areon the trade block. Who would the Grizzlies look to get back in return?
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#170 » by E S V L » Mon Nov 9, 2020 12:45 am

SD2042 wrote:
E S V L wrote:Kyle and Grayson are both positive assets, in my view. They both can bring some positive return, though obviously not more than moderate.

Their trade though would make sense only if there is a target on the table, so we would need to consolidate assets for the right price. The target can be a current NBA player who has potential for growth or a draft prospect who our FO likes.


Let's say these two players areon the trade block. Who would the Grizzlies look to get back in return?


#35 for Grayson
#30 for Kyle
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#171 » by Whole Truth » Mon Nov 9, 2020 2:38 pm

Patrick Williams could have promise at 7 from the Pistons

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2020/11/6/21553216/detroit-pistons-nba-draft-rumors-patrick-williams

Some scouts and executives believe Williams has a promise to the Pistons if he’s still on the board here. Detroit must like Williams’ combination of measurables, potential and youth, an ideal complementary player to any rotation. He wasn’t that productive last season, but Williams’ athleticism and two-way potential is eye-catching.

The Williams selection was made with Onyeka Okongwu, Isaac Okoro and Killian Hayes still on the board.

Are Pistons looking to trade down in the 10-14 range?.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#172 » by SD2042 » Mon Nov 9, 2020 3:50 pm

E S V L wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
E S V L wrote:Kyle and Grayson are both positive assets, in my view. They both can bring some positive return, though obviously not more than moderate.

Their trade though would make sense only if there is a target on the table, so we would need to consolidate assets for the right price. The target can be a current NBA player who has potential for growth or a draft prospect who our FO likes.


Let's say these two players aren't the trade block. Who would the Grizzlies look to get back in return?


#35 for Grayson
#30 for Kyle


With KA, I'm looking from the standpoint that with Hayward is looking to renounce his player option that KA can slide on into that slot. If so, he could fit with the Celts somewhat. The concern will be about minutes and his production to the team. It's a toss up. It could go either way.

As for GA, that may not be such a bad move. A good pick up for the Kings as GA gains more minutes and production. As the Grizzlies acquire pick 35.


Let's say these two deals were to go down. Who do you have the Grizzlies picking for those two picks?
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#173 » by SD2042 » Mon Nov 9, 2020 4:13 pm

Whole Truth wrote:Patrick Williams could have promise at 7 from the Pistons

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2020/11/6/21553216/detroit-pistons-nba-draft-rumors-patrick-williams

Some scouts and executives believe Williams has a promise to the Pistons if he’s still on the board here. Detroit must like Williams’ combination of measurables, potential and youth, an ideal complementary player to any rotation. He wasn’t that productive last season, but Williams’ athleticism and two-way potential is eye-catching.

The Williams selection was made with Onyeka Okongwu, Isaac Okoro and Killian Hayes still on the board.

Are Pistons looking to trade down in the 10-14 range?.


I've been hearing about Williams and the Pistons been linked the last few days. If they go with him then he will be another project to develop like Sekou Dombouya. Is Detroit planning to run with small ball in the future?
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#174 » by Whole Truth » Mon Nov 9, 2020 6:23 pm

SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Patrick Williams could have promise at 7 from the Pistons

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2020/11/6/21553216/detroit-pistons-nba-draft-rumors-patrick-williams

Some scouts and executives believe Williams has a promise to the Pistons if he’s still on the board here. Detroit must like Williams’ combination of measurables, potential and youth, an ideal complementary player to any rotation. He wasn’t that productive last season, but Williams’ athleticism and two-way potential is eye-catching.

The Williams selection was made with Onyeka Okongwu, Isaac Okoro and Killian Hayes still on the board.

Are Pistons looking to trade down in the 10-14 range?.


I've been hearing about Williams and the Pistons been linked the last few days. If they go with him then he will be another project to develop like Sekou Dombouya. Is Detroit planning to run with small ball in the future?


There's some redundancy in having both these young prospects/projects that are 3/4's.

7th is higher than Williams is expected to land so my assumption is some team that is interested in his potential is trying to leap frog other potential interest. If I had to guess. Spurs at 12 leaping Suns at 10.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#175 » by SD2042 » Mon Nov 9, 2020 7:04 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Patrick Williams could have promise at 7 from the Pistons

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2020/11/6/21553216/detroit-pistons-nba-draft-rumors-patrick-williams

Some scouts and executives believe Williams has a promise to the Pistons if he’s still on the board here. Detroit must like Williams’ combination of measurables, potential and youth, an ideal complementary player to any rotation. He wasn’t that productive last season, but Williams’ athleticism and two-way potential is eye-catching.

The Williams selection was made with Onyeka Okongwu, Isaac Okoro and Killian Hayes still on the board.

Are Pistons looking to trade down in the 10-14 range?.


I've been hearing about Williams and the Pistons been linked the last few days. If they go with him then he will be another project to develop like Sekou Dombouya. Is Detroit planning to run with small ball in the future?


There's some redundancy in having both these young prospects/projects that are 3/4's.

7th is higher than Williams is expected to land so my assumption is some team that is interested in his potential is trying to leap frog other potential interest. If I had to guess. Spurs at 12 leaping Suns at 10.



The Spurs are another team that has interviewed Williams in the last few weeks. My thoughts is that Williams is another prospect who's being considered by the Spurs. To what extent, I don't know. One thing is certain is that Williams will be deem a project. With the Spurs in the contunious rebuilding mode, he might have a chance to fit in with the team if that's his future destination.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#176 » by Whole Truth » Mon Nov 9, 2020 8:16 pm

SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
I've been hearing about Williams and the Pistons been linked the last few days. If they go with him then he will be another project to develop like Sekou Dombouya. Is Detroit planning to run with small ball in the future?


There's some redundancy in having both these young prospects/projects that are 3/4's.

7th is higher than Williams is expected to land so my assumption is some team that is interested in his potential is trying to leap frog other potential interest. If I had to guess. Spurs at 12 leaping Suns at 10.



The Spurs are another team that has interviewed Williams in the last few weeks. My thoughts is that Williams is another prospect who's being considered by the Spurs. To what extent, I don't know. One thing is certain is that Williams will be deem a project. With the Spurs in the contunious rebuilding mode, he might have a chance to fit in with the team if that's his future destination.


The tools are all there to mold an all around player & none do it better than the Spurs

Kawhi 6'7" 225 in his first college season averaged 20% from 3, 72% from the stripe. 29% in year 2, 75% from the stripe.

Williams 6'8" 225 in his rookie year averaged 32% from 3 & shot 83% from the stripe.

As the youngest player in the draft, he has the size, length, motor & wide ranging offensive skillset to mold into a good 2 way player. Problem is, not many teams are as good as Spurs at developing raw young talent.

Doesn't hurt he said to have a team first attitude & good work ethic.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#177 » by SD2042 » Mon Nov 9, 2020 10:35 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
There's some redundancy in having both these young prospects/projects that are 3/4's.

7th is higher than Williams is expected to land so my assumption is some team that is interested in his potential is trying to leap frog other potential interest. If I had to guess. Spurs at 12 leaping Suns at 10.



The Spurs are another team that has interviewed Williams in the last few weeks. My thoughts is that Williams is another prospect who's being considered by the Spurs. To what extent, I don't know. One thing is certain is that Williams will be deem a project. With the Spurs in the contunious rebuilding mode, he might have a chance to fit in with the team if that's his future destination.


The tools are all there to mold an all around player & none do it better than the Spurs

Kawhi 6'7" 225 in his first college season averaged 20% from 3, 72% from the stripe. 29% in year 2, 75% from the stripe.

Williams 6'8" 225 in his rookie year averaged 32% from 3 & shot 83% from the stripe.

As the youngest player in the draft, he has the size, length, motor & wide ranging offensive skillset to mold into a good 2 way player. Problem is, not many teams are as good as Spurs at developing raw young talent.

Doesn't hurt he said to have a team first attitude & good work ethic.


A good work ethic and attitude goes a long way with the Spurs organization as they do right by their players. Another guy I think could fit them is Jalen Smith of Maryland. His athleticism and his ability to be a two-way player at the center position would be a great ideal pick for the Spurs. It's been a long while since they had a dynamic center in SA.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#178 » by E S V L » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:43 am

SD2042 wrote:
E S V L wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
Let's say these two players aren't the trade block. Who would the Grizzlies look to get back in return?


#35 for Grayson
#30 for Kyle


With KA, I'm looking from the standpoint that with Hayward is looking to renounce his player option that KA can slide on into that slot. If so, he could fit with the Celts somewhat. The concern will be about minutes and his production to the team. It's a toss up. It could go either way.

As for GA, that may not be such a bad move. A good pick up for the Kings as GA gains more minutes and production. As the Grizzlies acquire pick 35.


Let's say these two deals were to go down. Who do you have the Grizzlies picking for those two picks?


Woodard
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#179 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:33 pm

SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
SD2042 wrote:

The Spurs are another team that has interviewed Williams in the last few weeks. My thoughts is that Williams is another prospect who's being considered by the Spurs. To what extent, I don't know. One thing is certain is that Williams will be deem a project. With the Spurs in the contunious rebuilding mode, he might have a chance to fit in with the team if that's his future destination.


The tools are all there to mold an all around player & none do it better than the Spurs

Kawhi 6'7" 225 in his first college season averaged 20% from 3, 72% from the stripe. 29% in year 2, 75% from the stripe.

Williams 6'8" 225 in his rookie year averaged 32% from 3 & shot 83% from the stripe.

As the youngest player in the draft, he has the size, length, motor & wide ranging offensive skillset to mold into a good 2 way player. Problem is, not many teams are as good as Spurs at developing raw young talent.

Doesn't hurt he said to have a team first attitude & good work ethic.


A good work ethic and attitude goes a long way with the Spurs organization as they do right by their players. Another guy I think could fit them is Jalen Smith of Maryland. His athleticism and his ability to be a two-way player at the center position would be a great ideal pick for the Spurs. It's been a long while since they had a dynamic center in SA.


You don't think Peoltl can potentially be that for them?.
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Re: Offseason Discussion 

Post#180 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:37 pm

Givony, Schmitz and Pelton all think LaMelo is far better than anyone in this draft class. Other teams do too.

Givony: if you talk to the teams in the top ten, they are very excited about LaMelo. I’m hearing some of the offers to Minnesota, and they’re pretty good, relative to what you think is a bad #1 pick, and it doesn’t sound like they are going to make that move. So far, they are rebuffing those offers, and there’s going to be a second meeting with LaMelo. I expect he’ll have to get on the basketball court and show some stuff, but that might be enough for them to say,”we’re not trading the pick, and we’re committing to him.”

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