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2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker

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MemphisX
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#21 » by MemphisX » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:33 am

VCfor3 wrote:
MemphisX wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:The Utah pick just took a hit, Gobert extended.

If Minnesota hand GS a top 5-10 pick in 21, the GS 24 pick will take another hit, after landing Wiseman. They will have started retooling far sooner than expected.

With the Grizz looking like a playoff team, would you offer up the 21 pick top 4 protected, Utah pick, GS pick for Simmons ?.


I love Ben Simmons and would probably not be upset about that trade but what is Ben Simmons without the ball in his hands running the show? And Ja is that guy for us. Still not sure what vet I would want to target but I prefer adding through the 2021 draft and then trading for a vet in the 2021 offseason.

I'd prefer getting one of the 2021 studs in the draft too, but if that can't happen I wonder if Brown would be better for us. I think Simmons is probably the better player, but Brown would fit what we need better.


Here is how I see it. There are at least 15 guys in this draft that would be good fits with Jaren and Ja:
1. Cade
2. Jalen Green
3. Jalen Suggs
4. Evan Mobely
5. Jonathan Kuminga
6. Scottie Barnes
7. BJ Boston
8. Ziaire Williams
9. James Bouknight
10. Moses Moody
11. Jaden Springer
12. Terrence Clark
13. Keon Johnson
14. Josh Christopher
15. Corey Kispert

Then you can use your assets to trade for a veteran, even an over paid veteran while the 2021 draft picks is groomed to be the 3rd option.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#22 » by VCfor3 » Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:12 am

MemphisX wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
MemphisX wrote:
I love Ben Simmons and would probably not be upset about that trade but what is Ben Simmons without the ball in his hands running the show? And Ja is that guy for us. Still not sure what vet I would want to target but I prefer adding through the 2021 draft and then trading for a vet in the 2021 offseason.

I'd prefer getting one of the 2021 studs in the draft too, but if that can't happen I wonder if Brown would be better for us. I think Simmons is probably the better player, but Brown would fit what we need better.


Here is how I see it. There are at least 15 guys in this draft that would be good fits with Jaren and Ja:
1. Cade
2. Jalen Green
3. Jalen Suggs
4. Evan Mobely
5. Jonathan Kuminga
6. Scottie Barnes
7. BJ Boston
8. Ziaire Williams
9. James Bouknight
10. Moses Moody
11. Jaden Springer
12. Terrence Clark
13. Keon Johnson
14. Josh Christopher
15. Corey Kispert

Then you can use your assets to trade for a veteran, even an over paid veteran while the 2021 draft picks is groomed to be the 3rd option.

How many of those guys would be better fits/3rd options than Brown or Simmons?
I have the top 5 as potentially better. I really like Barnes though and drafting him would let us keep Clarke and the additional 1sts it would take to get Brown or Simmons.

As for the rest of the guys, I like most of the list. I'm a little worried about BJ, Ziaire, and Keon but would still be happy if we end up with one of those guys given where I think we will end up picking.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#23 » by MemphisX » Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:21 am

VCfor3 wrote:
MemphisX wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:I'd prefer getting one of the 2021 studs in the draft too, but if that can't happen I wonder if Brown would be better for us. I think Simmons is probably the better player, but Brown would fit what we need better.


Here is how I see it. There are at least 15 guys in this draft that would be good fits with Jaren and Ja:
1. Cade
2. Jalen Green
3. Jalen Suggs
4. Evan Mobely
5. Jonathan Kuminga
6. Scottie Barnes
7. BJ Boston
8. Ziaire Williams
9. James Bouknight
10. Moses Moody
11. Jaden Springer
12. Terrence Clark
13. Keon Johnson
14. Josh Christopher
15. Corey Kispert

Then you can use your assets to trade for a veteran, even an over paid veteran while the 2021 draft picks is groomed to be the 3rd option.

How many of those guys would be better fits/3rd options than Brown or Simmons?
I have the top 5 as potentially better. I really like Barnes though and drafting him would let us keep Clarke and the additional 1sts it would take to get Brown or Simmons.

As for the rest of the guys, I like most of the list. I'm a little worried about BJ, Ziaire, and Keon but would still be happy if we end up with one of those guys given where I think we will end up picking.



Jaylen Brown I do not consider available for any reasonable price I would want the Grizzlies to pay. Also with Simmons vs. 2021 guys, it is a matter of salary and assets sacrificed. None might ever be as good as Simmons (All NBA at such a young age) but will Simmons be All NBA playing off of Ja and Jaren? Plus I like 7-9 years of control vs 4 years.

It comes down to how valuable are the strengths of Simmons on a team in which you have Ja Morant?

For the same price, I would definitely prefer Brown.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#24 » by VCfor3 » Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:57 am

MemphisX wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
MemphisX wrote:
Here is how I see it. There are at least 15 guys in this draft that would be good fits with Jaren and Ja:
1. Cade
2. Jalen Green
3. Jalen Suggs
4. Evan Mobely
5. Jonathan Kuminga
6. Scottie Barnes
7. BJ Boston
8. Ziaire Williams
9. James Bouknight
10. Moses Moody
11. Jaden Springer
12. Terrence Clark
13. Keon Johnson
14. Josh Christopher
15. Corey Kispert

Then you can use your assets to trade for a veteran, even an over paid veteran while the 2021 draft picks is groomed to be the 3rd option.

How many of those guys would be better fits/3rd options than Brown or Simmons?
I have the top 5 as potentially better. I really like Barnes though and drafting him would let us keep Clarke and the additional 1sts it would take to get Brown or Simmons.

As for the rest of the guys, I like most of the list. I'm a little worried about BJ, Ziaire, and Keon but would still be happy if we end up with one of those guys given where I think we will end up picking.



Jaylen Brown I do not consider available for any reasonable price I would want the Grizzlies to pay. Also with Simmons vs. 2021 guys, it is a matter of salary and assets sacrificed. None might ever be as good as Simmons (All NBA at such a young age) but will Simmons be All NBA playing off of Ja and Jaren? Plus I like 7-9 years of control vs 4 years.

It comes down to how valuable are the strengths of Simmons on a team in which you have Ja Morant?

For the same price, I would definitely prefer Brown.

I agree that I doubt Brown will become available. Just was throwing him in in case Boston decides to move him in a Harden deal though even then I don't know if Houston would move him for even an unreasonable offer.

And for what it is worth, I think Simmons would highly elevate our regular season team but like you said I fear he and Ja could impact each other on the offensive end. Ja is decent off the ball but his magic happens with the ball in his hand. Simmons needs the ball in his hands due to the lack of a 3pt shot. He could play down low since JJJ will be out on the perimeter, but that would clog the paint for Ja drives. It would be nice to always have one on the court to initiate the offense, but it may not lead to Championship level offensive flow when it comes time to close that close game deep in the playoffs. Simmons would highly elevate our defense though as our top wing defender and likely would have a couple appearances on the all defense team. He also may help our rebounding next to JJJ.

The question is would Simmons on our team lead to a championship ceiling? If the FO thinks so then I'm all for going after him. If they think we'd fall just short then I'd rather turn to the draft in order to try and find players that would get us to where we want to go. Like you said, 7-9 years of control would be better than 4 especially if we are still searching for additional pieces. And if there is a draft I want to take stabs in it would be this one. Here's to hoping the Mitchell/Gobert problems flare up enough for them to end up with the 7th seed and lose in the play-in tournament so we get that pick.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#25 » by Whole Truth » Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:02 pm

MemphisX wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
MemphisX wrote:
Here is how I see it. There are at least 15 guys in this draft that would be good fits with Jaren and Ja:
1. Cade
2. Jalen Green
3. Jalen Suggs
4. Evan Mobely
5. Jonathan Kuminga
6. Scottie Barnes
7. BJ Boston
8. Ziaire Williams
9. James Bouknight
10. Moses Moody
11. Jaden Springer
12. Terrence Clark
13. Keon Johnson
14. Josh Christopher
15. Corey Kispert

Then you can use your assets to trade for a veteran, even an over paid veteran while the 2021 draft picks is groomed to be the 3rd option.

How many of those guys would be better fits/3rd options than Brown or Simmons?
I have the top 5 as potentially better. I really like Barnes though and drafting him would let us keep Clarke and the additional 1sts it would take to get Brown or Simmons.

As for the rest of the guys, I like most of the list. I'm a little worried about BJ, Ziaire, and Keon but would still be happy if we end up with one of those guys given where I think we will end up picking.



Jaylen Brown I do not consider available for any reasonable price I would want the Grizzlies to pay. Also with Simmons vs. 2021 guys, it is a matter of salary and assets sacrificed. None might ever be as good as Simmons (All NBA at such a young age) but will Simmons be All NBA playing off of Ja and Jaren? Plus I like 7-9 years of control vs 4 years.

It comes down to how valuable are the strengths of Simmons on a team in which you have Ja Morant?

For the same price, I would definitely prefer Brown.


When looking at yrs of control, you need to factor in winning & development, how immediate the contribution will be because if this team is ready sooner than later, which it appears... it would be better to have a developed young player with less control than an undeveloped rookie with more control & a need to develop. It eats away at the teams window of control, especially if the player drafted doesn't pan out as expected in his development.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#26 » by Whole Truth » Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:49 pm

VCfor3 wrote: I agree that I doubt Brown will become available. Just was throwing him in in case Boston decides to move him in a Harden deal though even then I don't know if Houston would move him for even an unreasonable offer.

And for what it is worth, I think Simmons would highly elevate our regular season team but like you said I fear he and Ja could impact each other on the offensive end. Ja is decent off the ball but his magic happens with the ball in his hand. Simmons needs the ball in his hands due to the lack of a 3pt shot. He could play down low since JJJ will be out on the perimeter, but that would clog the paint for Ja drives. It would be nice to always have one on the court to initiate the offense, but it may not lead to Championship level offensive flow when it comes time to close that close game deep in the playoffs. Simmons would highly elevate our defense though as our top wing defender and likely would have a couple appearances on the all defense team. He also may help our rebounding next to JJJ.

The question is would Simmons on our team lead to a championship ceiling? If the FO thinks so then I'm all for going after him. If they think we'd fall just short then I'd rather turn to the draft in order to try and find players that would get us to where we want to go. Like you said, 7-9 years of control would be better than 4 especially if we are still searching for additional pieces. And if there is a draft I want to take stabs in it would be this one. Here's to hoping the Mitchell/Gobert problems flare up enough for them to end up with the 7th seed and lose in the play-in tournament so we get that pick.


He would clog the paint no more than Jonas. How many teams really "respect Jonas' range" even with him being a capable shooter?, they respect him as a roll man. Usually when Jonas is taking a 3, he's wide open & not overly contested.

We don't really know how Simmons will affect the offense, it's guess work to hide him as playmaker out the post. What we need to answer, is what we know Simmons will absolutely do for Memphis to potentially make the team better & that is, give Jenkins a very capable 1-5 defensive option to Jonas weakness, a big wing defender, defensive stopper & a player that can get out in transition with Ja running point. From there we can find a way to make him useful offensively playing off ball.

It needs to be factored that Philly didn't have a PG like Ja to compliment Simmons ability in transition. In Philly Simmons is a lesser version of Giannis, where it's easier to box them out as the main ball handler apposed to being a secondary threat, putting pressure on defenses with their defense & transition buckets.

Front offices make moves all the time believing they will be successful but there's only one way to find out.

Having said all that, pertaining to the risk factor. Barring injury, Simmons retains his player value regardless & can be flipped for a more specified target, draft compensation if things don't go as expected.

PS. I agree with both of you that the best option is atop this draft retaining assets & cap but the question is, is that a reality for this team without lotto luck ?
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#27 » by Whole Truth » Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:57 pm

The New York Times’ Marc Stein reported that the Celtics have been in “exploratory talks” for Harden
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#28 » by VCfor3 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:56 pm

Whole Truth wrote:The New York Times’ Marc Stein reported that the Celtics have been in “exploratory talks” for Harden

So far I have seen Portland, Denver, Miami, Boston, Toronto, and Brooklyn linked to him I think. Did I miss anyone?
Portland - Either the coach or Gm has a close relationship with Harden. Package would be CJ+
Denver - MPJ+Harris+picks as the centerpiece? Sounds like they said no to Murray+
Miami - Herro+picks with Duncan Robinson being a sticking point
Boston - Brown+
Toronto - Siakim+
Brooklyn - No official report on the offer aside from not wiling to include KD or Kyrie but it was supposed to have been most everything else
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#29 » by SD2042 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:44 am

VCfor3 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:The New York Times’ Marc Stein reported that the Celtics have been in “exploratory talks” for Harden

So far I have seen Portland, Denver, Miami, Boston, Toronto, and Brooklyn linked to him I think. Did I miss anyone?
Portland - Either the coach or Gm has a close relationship with Harden. Package would be CJ+
Denver - MPJ+Harris+picks as the centerpiece? Sounds like they said no to Murray+
Miami - Herro+picks with Duncan Robinson being a sticking point
Boston - Brown+
Toronto - Siakim+
Brooklyn - No official report on the offer aside from not wiling to include KD or Kyrie but it was supposed to have been most everything else



Another team I think could be in the conversation is the Pacers. Let's say VO, Sabonis, and two future first 2021 and 2023 lottery protected.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#30 » by Whole Truth » Thu Jan 7, 2021 3:13 am

Utah lose to the Knicks by 12 & are now 4-4, 7th seed, with Denver, Mavs, Spurs & Portland a half game behind them.

With GS & Pelicans now potentially in the playoff mix, Memphis might get lucky to net another 10-14 pick in this draft.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#31 » by VCfor3 » Thu Jan 7, 2021 4:01 am

Whole Truth wrote:Utah lose to the Knicks by 12 & are now 4-4, 7th seed, with Denver, Mavs, Spurs & Portland a half game behind them.

With GS & Pelicans now potentially in the playoff mix, Memphis might get lucky to net another 10-14 pick in this draft.

Hate it for Conley but love it for us. If it does convey, we may be able to combine that with our own pick to move up some even if we don't have lottery luck. We aren't getting Cade, but we could maybe have a shot at a solid wing prospect. Or we keep both picks and take two swings. Gives the FO options.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#32 » by Whole Truth » Thu Jan 7, 2021 12:58 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Utah lose to the Knicks by 12 & are now 4-4, 7th seed, with Denver, Mavs, Spurs & Portland a half game behind them.

With GS & Pelicans now potentially in the playoff mix, Memphis might get lucky to net another 10-14 pick in this draft.

Hate it for Conley but love it for us. If it does convey, we may be able to combine that with our own pick to move up some even if we don't have lottery luck. We aren't getting Cade, but we could maybe have a shot at a solid wing prospect. Or we keep both picks and take two swings. Gives the FO options.


I think that depends on where the Memphis pick lies & the targeted draft slot/player because there will be some solid picks in this draft in the 10-14 range where it might be better to select twice than combining to move up.

i.e. If Memphis land 5-10 range (Jalen Johnson, Scott Barnes) + 10-14 range (Terrence Clarke, Greg Brown)

With Jalen Green being my potential trade up target.

As much as I like Green, is he potentially worth 2 of Jalen/Barnes or Clarke/Brown ?.

I think I'd sooner use the 2024 GS pick to move up. There may even be a scenario where Memphis could use that Utah 21 & GS to move up in combination with having their own top 10.

I'm thinking potentially the (GS/Minnesota pick) for (Utah 12-14 + GS 2024) if Memphis like someone enough in combination with their own pick. GS trade down a few slots to regain control of their future.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#33 » by VCfor3 » Thu Jan 7, 2021 10:12 pm

Portland will turn it around, but currently they are sending us the #38 pick which has some value as well. Could be a final sweetener in one of your proposed deals Whole Truth. If moving up for the right guy, I like your idea of trading the GSW 1st back to the Warriors to move up though they may use the pick to try and give Steph one last run. Still they could do that deal to ensure their future picks are intact and use the late lottery pick we send them for a win now move.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#34 » by Whole Truth » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:24 am

After losing to the Knicks, Utah have rattled off 3 straight wins & are now sitting 2nd in the West.

Minnesota look like they're going to hand GS a 5-10 pick in this draft to pair with Wiseman to give them a 2yr jump on a potential rebuild. At this rate they will have a new core group of young players before 24.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#35 » by SD2042 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:18 pm

Whole Truth wrote:After losing to the Knicks, Utah have rattled off 3 straight wins & are now sitting 2nd in the West.

Minnesota look like they're going to hand GS a 5-10 pick in this draft to pair with Wiseman to give them a 2yr jump on a potential rebuild. At this rate they will have a new core group of young players before 24.



It looks more and more like the deal for Dlo is blowing up in the Wolves faces as expected. When teams like the Wolves do not respect the defense aspect of basketball to create winning opportunities losing games is to be expected. Especially when future picks get traded at the wrong time. And given the state of where the Wolves still stand, it's clear that trading away the pick in-spite of who it was traded for, looks to bite the Wolves at the wrong time.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#36 » by VCfor3 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:02 pm

SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:After losing to the Knicks, Utah have rattled off 3 straight wins & are now sitting 2nd in the West.

Minnesota look like they're going to hand GS a 5-10 pick in this draft to pair with Wiseman to give them a 2yr jump on a potential rebuild. At this rate they will have a new core group of young players before 24.



It looks more and more like the deal for Dlo is blowing up in the Wolves faces as expected. When teams like the Wolves do not respect the defense aspect of basketball to create winning opportunities losing games is to be expected. Especially when future picks get traded at the wrong time. And given the state of where the Wolves still stand, it's clear that trading away the pick in-spite of who it was traded for, looks to bite the Wolves at the wrong time.

Yeah that was a bad trade from the jump. Kinda like the RW/CP swap that may now send a high lottery pick to OKC from Houston.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#37 » by SD2042 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:48 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:After losing to the Knicks, Utah have rattled off 3 straight wins & are now sitting 2nd in the West.

Minnesota look like they're going to hand GS a 5-10 pick in this draft to pair with Wiseman to give them a 2yr jump on a potential rebuild. At this rate they will have a new core group of young players before 24.



It looks more and more like the deal for Dlo is blowing up in the Wolves faces as expected. When teams like the Wolves do not respect the defense aspect of basketball to create winning opportunities losing games is to be expected. Especially when future picks get traded at the wrong time. And given the state of where the Wolves still stand, it's clear that trading away the pick in-spite of who it was traded for, looks to bite the Wolves at the wrong time.

Yeah that was a bad trade from the jump. Kinda like the RW/CP swap that may now send a high lottery pick to OKC from Houston.



Yes. Daryl Morey is a straight up gambler who at the time choose to wait hand and foot for James Harden to the point of sacrificing the team's future for it. The Rockets got conned out of future picks for a one season RW. A friend of mines has always talked about how the Rockets always have turnovers at the PG position for the last several years. That move is another proof addition to my friend's case.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#38 » by VCfor3 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:00 pm

SD2042 wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
SD2042 wrote:

It looks more and more like the deal for Dlo is blowing up in the Wolves faces as expected. When teams like the Wolves do not respect the defense aspect of basketball to create winning opportunities losing games is to be expected. Especially when future picks get traded at the wrong time. And given the state of where the Wolves still stand, it's clear that trading away the pick in-spite of who it was traded for, looks to bite the Wolves at the wrong time.

Yeah that was a bad trade from the jump. Kinda like the RW/CP swap that may now send a high lottery pick to OKC from Houston.



Yes. Daryl Morey is a straight up gambler who at the time choose to wait hand and foot for James Harden to the point of sacrificing the team's future for it. The Rockets got conned out of future picks for a one season RW. A friend of mines has always talked about how the Rockets always have turnovers at the PG position for the last several years. That move is another proof addition to my friend's case.

I feel like I saw a report saying that the owner and Harden basically forced the trade for RW and that Morey didn't want to do it. May be a reason he left.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#39 » by SD2042 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:23 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Yeah that was a bad trade from the jump. Kinda like the RW/CP swap that may now send a high lottery pick to OKC from Houston.



Yes. Daryl Morey is a straight up gambler who at the time choose to wait hand and foot for James Harden to the point of sacrificing the team's future for it. The Rockets got conned out of future picks for a one season RW. A friend of mines has always talked about how the Rockets always have turnovers at the PG position for the last several years. That move is another proof addition to my friend's case.

I feel like I saw a report saying that the owner and Harden basically forced the trade for RW and that Morey didn't want to do it. May be a reason he left.



If that's the case, then it goes to the power that today's superstars truly have. It raises an issue of is too much power is too much in terms of risking salary, chemistry and the future of the franchise when it comes t osuperstars and their demands.
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Re: 2021 Draft Discussion and Pick Tracker 

Post#40 » by VCfor3 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:25 pm

SD2042 wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
SD2042 wrote:

Yes. Daryl Morey is a straight up gambler who at the time choose to wait hand and foot for James Harden to the point of sacrificing the team's future for it. The Rockets got conned out of future picks for a one season RW. A friend of mines has always talked about how the Rockets always have turnovers at the PG position for the last several years. That move is another proof addition to my friend's case.

I feel like I saw a report saying that the owner and Harden basically forced the trade for RW and that Morey didn't want to do it. May be a reason he left.



If that's the case, then it goes to the power that today's superstars truly have. It raises an issue of is too much power is too much in terms of risking salary, chemistry and the future of the franchise when it comes t osuperstars and their demands.

I'm just happy we have Ja who seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

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