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Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games

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Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#1 » by SD2042 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:04 am

The Grizzlies started off the preseason off against the Minnesota Timberwolves on Saturday night and came away with a comeback victory over the Wolves.


https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2020/12/12/22171886/quick-recap-memphis-grizzlies-defeat-timberwolves-nba-preseason-morant-bane
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#2 » by VCfor3 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:12 pm

Morant was a stud. Can't wait to see him again tonight. Brooks also was passing and had better shot selection. His shot wasn't falling, but it will. Bane looked good and is trying to make a case to be the interim starter with Winslow and JJJ out. Tillman looked like he is still adjusting to NBA game speed but he mentioned that in an interview and it'll just take a few games for him to get used to it.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#3 » by Whole Truth » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:52 pm

Brooks was clearly trying to be unselfish, almost to a fault. His shot wasn't falling, so it was good to see him consciously try to impact the game without forcing his. Bane had a solid all around debut on both ends, Allen looked a bit rusty but of all, I thought Melton's game stood out the most. It looked like his game is about to take a step where that new contract signed will wind up a bargain & another win for the front office.

That's a lot to take away from 1 game but there it is. Time for some confirmation.

Sorry but I'm about to rant a bit.

It annoys me ... all I hear from supposedly knowledgeable fans, is how good, valuable Kat is & how he's one of the best big men in the league ignoring his defense & the fact over a 5+yr career, his led teams have failed to make the playoffs without a Jimmy Butler. These same fans consider Jonas a Raptors throw away & bench role player, where last year was the first in his 8 yr career starting, that he missed the playoffs & it was with a young rebuilding team & partly due to key injuries in the bubble.

Here in this game we had Memphis short handed without 3J & Clarke, 2 of the top rotational big men & Kat didn't dominate the Grizzlies front court, why is that ?. I know why but it's time the league & other fans know it too.

Toronto DeRozan fans used to place blame on Jonas for DeRozan's defensive deficiencies & that degradation has stuck with him. When Raptors traded for Kawhi, Jonas was immediately moved to the bench so his starting replacement was playing with Kawhi & Green, not DeRozan. As I've stated several times before, Jonas in the handful of games he was allowed to start with Kawhi (8 GS) that 5 man starting unit was +22. I also believe Jonas was traded because he was a BC draft pick & Gasol was a Masai trade target = Masai taking more credit for the "upgrade". I mean after all Jonas was traded to a Gasol, Conley led 22 win team set to trade off Conley, where they played 10 games over 500 for 2 month till the bubble & just missed making the playoffs.

Jonas impacts the offense well beyond his efficient post game & offensive rebounding. He's an elite screener & his physicality along with his efficiency requires additional help where he creates pockets of space. The subtle nuances of his game is why Memphis were #1 in paint points & will continue to dominate the paint... but ... he's just a role player.

I mean, Jonas has put up similar numbers & rebounds on better efficiency in almost 10 less minutes than the big men being referenced as superstars but that doesn't tell me why fans think his value is worlds apart. Is it because he's slow & methodical in a league where flash = ratings ?. because Kat sure as hell isn't a good defender either.

I need a mic drop emoji. (Edit Here it is)




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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#4 » by SD2042 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:55 pm

I think after reading about the need to open more avenues to his game, it's good that DB is willing to make more upgrades to his arsenal. The more one adds to his game, the more reliable and a threat one gets against his opponent.

As for KAT, my thoughts is that as good as he is, he's more of a Robin than he is a Batman in this case. He's played for the Wolves for five seasons and has yet demonstrate the ability to take the team on his back to become better contenders. I can't say this season will be any different for KAT, Dlo, and the Wolves.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#5 » by Whole Truth » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:31 am

SD2042 wrote:I think after reading about the need to open more avenues to his game, it's good that DB is willing to make more upgrades to his arsenal. The more one adds to his game, the more reliable and a threat one gets against his opponent.

As for KAT, my thoughts is that as good as he is, he's more of a Robin than he is a Batman in this case. He's played for the Wolves for five seasons and has yet demonstrate the ability to take the team on his back to become better contenders. I can't say this season will be any different for KAT, Dlo, and the Wolves.


My thoughts on Kat & players like him = volume scorers. with subpar defense. As Kat proves year in out, not a recipe for winning but inflating individual numbers.

Now I can't make that claim without backing it up..

Kat = 19 FGA - 50% FG / 41% 3PT / 79.6% FT / 60% eFG / 5.1 WS = (26 pts)

Jonas = 10 FGA - 58.5% FG / 35.2 3PT / 74% FT / 60.6% eFG / 7 WS = (15 pts)

You give Jonas 5 more attempts per game he'll average over 20pts without much if any dip in efficiency, more less the 9 more attempts per game that Kat averages. That high volume hurts his team more than it helps but it bolsters Kats individual status. Is he any better than Jonas defensively? I'd argue not. So why is he considered so much more valuable? the 3pt shooting???
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#6 » by Whole Truth » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:15 pm

Wolves/Kat's strength is supposed to be their offense, Memphis held Minnesota to 24-60 shooting & Kat to 2-12 from the field. A volume "star" with no defense that's not scoring = Memphis blowout.

Memphis/Jonas owned the paint again, Jonas putting up 22pts on 8-15 shooting, with about 4 of his attempts being fouls Minnesota got away with committing. Memphis had 7 FT's through 3 quarters while Kat got away with moving screens & running over defenders. To my earlier reference, Jonas didn't start getting to the FT line until garbage time.

Bane struggled handling & protecting the ball

Brooks did a better job in this one balancing his shot selection & decision making. 21 pts on 9-16 shooting +4 assists

Anderson has quietly been solid these last 2 games (7-10) 16/8/8 for a near trip dub. He's a hard cover at the 4 spot running the PNR with Jonas. Their chemistry formed in the bubble continues. Anderson, like Ja, is figuring out how to get the most out of Jonas. Derozan built his reputation on it, the exception being Ja & Anderson execute the drop off where DeRozan used to force a shot over 3 defenders.

Melton was once again 2-3 from the corner. If he can continue his play, he'd be the opening day SG where I originally had Banes slotted for his ability to space the court. Like what I'm seeing out of Melton in these first 2 games.

With so many solid players, what happens when 3J & WInslow return to the lineup ?.

One thing I do know is down the road if 3J prove he can play the 5, Clarke the 4, Jonas & Anderson would make a great 4/5 combo off the bench on a contender. I would love for Memphis to net that core upside wing player in this draft to solidify the young teams foundation but they're too good to be bad.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#7 » by VCfor3 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:28 pm

I'm a little mad my earlier post didn't go through, but basically I love JV and think he is underrated. It doesn't bother me much that others don't see it because our FO does. I think that even if JJJ can move to the 5, keeping JV around would be very important since he would likely be better against the big bruising centers than Jaren. Also JV as a 6th man type guy would be unfair for the opposing team especially if we can keep the rest of our strong bench unit roughly intact.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#8 » by Whole Truth » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:50 pm

VCfor3 wrote:I'm a little mad my earlier post didn't go through, but basically I love JV and think he is underrated. It doesn't bother me much that others don't see it because our FO does. I think that even if JJJ can move to the 5, keeping JV around would be very important since he would likely be better against the big bruising centers than Jaren. Also JV as a 6th man type guy would be unfair for the opposing team especially if we can keep the rest of our strong bench unit roughly intact.


Perceived value is why Kat is worth several draft picks & Jonas is considered a role player.

Matchup all their stats & tell me that's their difference in "actual" worth.

Is Kat an elite screener? is he an offensive load that wears teams down? is he an unselfish teammate? I could list several more winning traits & effect that Jonas has that Kat doesn't (Ask Jimmy) about what won't show up on a stat sheet.

That's why Jonas went to a young rebuilding team expected to finish last & almost made the playoffs if not for Covid & injury, where Kat with loftier expectations, can't make the playoffs without Butler, who at the same time was calling him out.

Did I just say I prefer Jonas to Superstar Kat, yeah I did.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#9 » by VCfor3 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:40 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:I'm a little mad my earlier post didn't go through, but basically I love JV and think he is underrated. It doesn't bother me much that others don't see it because our FO does. I think that even if JJJ can move to the 5, keeping JV around would be very important since he would likely be better against the big bruising centers than Jaren. Also JV as a 6th man type guy would be unfair for the opposing team especially if we can keep the rest of our strong bench unit roughly intact.


Perceived value is why Kat is worth several draft picks & Jonas is considered a role player.

Matchup all their stats & tell me that's their difference in "actual" worth.

Is Kat an elite screener? is he an offensive load that wears teams down? is he an unselfish teammate? I could list several more winning traits & effect that Jonas has that Kat doesn't (Ask Jimmy) about what won't show up on a stat sheet.

That's why Jonas went to a young rebuilding team expected to finish last & almost made the playoffs if not for Covid & injury, where Kat with loftier expectations, can't make the playoffs without Butler, who at the same time was calling him out.

Did I just say I prefer Jonas to Superstar Kat, yeah I did.

JV also is playing his optimal role where as KAT not so much. Also KAT is still dealing with personal issues so I'd take the preseason games with a grain of salt. I think KAT can do things on offense that unlocks a lot more than JV when used correctly, but I don't see that happening in MIN. I'd still prefer KAT to JV but would not would not would not want to pay what it would take to swap the two right now. JV is awesome for our team and I'd like Ja and the others to continue to foster the culture that's been building before bringing in other star players that could negatively effect it.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#10 » by SD2042 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:18 am

KAT is dealing with a lot these days. I wonder with all the tragedies he's been through this year that he may use it as motivation to truly step his game up. Take the mantle to become the leading player for the Wolves instead of just being the leading player in stats only.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#11 » by Whole Truth » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:13 pm

VCfor3 wrote: JV also is playing his optimal role where as KAT not so much. Also KAT is still dealing with personal issues so I'd take the preseason games with a grain of salt. I think KAT can do things on offense that unlocks a lot more than JV when used correctly, but I don't see that happening in MIN. I'd still prefer KAT to JV but would not would not would not want to pay what it would take to swap the two right now. JV is awesome for our team and I'd like Ja and the others to continue to foster the culture that's been building before bringing in other star players that could negatively effect it.


I referenced the preseason games but it's not what I'm basing my post on.

Kats 5yr career.

2015-16 = 28 wins
2016-17 = 31 wins
2017-18 = 47 wins (With Butler)
2018-19 = 36 wins
2019-20 = 19 wins

.

If I were Minnesota, I would have drafted Wiseman or Okongwu & cashed in on Kats perceived value.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#12 » by VCfor3 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:52 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote: JV also is playing his optimal role where as KAT not so much. Also KAT is still dealing with personal issues so I'd take the preseason games with a grain of salt. I think KAT can do things on offense that unlocks a lot more than JV when used correctly, but I don't see that happening in MIN. I'd still prefer KAT to JV but would not would not would not want to pay what it would take to swap the two right now. JV is awesome for our team and I'd like Ja and the others to continue to foster the culture that's been building before bringing in other star players that could negatively effect it.


I referenced the preseason games but it's not what I'm basing my post on.

Kats 5yr career.

2015-16 = 28 wins
2016-17 = 31 wins
2017-18 = 47 wins (With Butler)
2018-19 = 36 wins
2019-20 = 19 wins

.

If I were Minnesota, I would have drafted Wiseman or Okongwu & cashed in on Kats perceived value.

I still say that he hasn't been set up well to win so it is hard to totally blame him on how bad the team has been. Butler is the only time he truly had another stud on the roster with him and the team was ok that year. Doesn't mean he will end up a winning player, but I don't think he is as much of a losing player as you are suggesting.

Still selling high on him probably would have been the way to go simply due to how much players were fetching this offseason. MIN could have gotten a crazy return with OKC, PHX, and NOP bidding against each other plus any other random team that threw an offer in. MIN is on the clock before Towns potentially asks out. I don't see them turning it around in time.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#13 » by Whole Truth » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:54 pm

VCfor3 wrote: I still say that he hasn't been set up well to win so it is hard to totally blame him on how bad the team has been. Butler is the only time he truly had another stud on the roster with him and the team was ok that year. Doesn't mean he will end up a winning player, but I don't think he is as much of a losing player as you are suggesting.

Still selling high on him probably would have been the way to go simply due to how much players were fetching this offseason. MIN could have gotten a crazy return with OKC, PHX, and NOP bidding against each other plus any other random team that threw an offer in. MIN is on the clock before Towns potentially asks out. I don't see them turning it around in time.


You don't think it's more damning than all his losing seasons, to have the best teammate he ever had, publicly call him out & then request a trade ?.

That one good season out of his 5yr career is IMO a greater testament to his losing seasons than anything else. In a me or him situation, A Kat led Minnesota team sunk back into the abyss, while Butler went on to prove that he's a winning player with both Philly & Miami, in his declining years.

Winning culture is a real thing & it starts with a mental makeup, which Butler more than once called the Wolves young players, Kat on.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#14 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:44 pm

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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#15 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:31 am

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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#16 » by Whole Truth » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:31 am

Atlanta defense isn't worrying about JV...

JV 20 & 13 on 9 shots, 28 mins.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#17 » by Whole Truth » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:33 am

Another good all around game for Dillon, 24/4/4 on 10-15 shooting.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#18 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:36 am

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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#19 » by VCfor3 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:30 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote: I still say that he hasn't been set up well to win so it is hard to totally blame him on how bad the team has been. Butler is the only time he truly had another stud on the roster with him and the team was ok that year. Doesn't mean he will end up a winning player, but I don't think he is as much of a losing player as you are suggesting.

Still selling high on him probably would have been the way to go simply due to how much players were fetching this offseason. MIN could have gotten a crazy return with OKC, PHX, and NOP bidding against each other plus any other random team that threw an offer in. MIN is on the clock before Towns potentially asks out. I don't see them turning it around in time.


You don't think it's more damning than all his losing seasons, to have the best teammate he ever had, publicly call him out & then request a trade ?.

That one good season out of his 5yr career is IMO a greater testament to his losing seasons than anything else. In a me or him situation, A Kat led Minnesota team sunk back into the abyss, while Butler went on to prove that he's a winning player with both Philly & Miami, in his declining years.

Winning culture is a real thing & it starts with a mental makeup, which Butler more than once called the Wolves young players, Kat on.

It is hard to have a winning culture when your team isn't equipped to win and eventually that rubs off. I think PHX is an example of that. The team eventually seemed to accept losing and so even though they were more talented on paper than teams, they would lose and kept having disappointing seasons. They are trying hard to change that culture though and Paul will hopefully be a big boost there. MIN may want to change that culture but I don't see who is actually going to make that happen. Edwards has said he doesn't love the game and doesn't watch basketball in his free time so I don't see him being the catalyst to change things. Edwards has also never played for a winning team so isn't the kind of guy that elevates others. KAT has personal issues and years of being beat down. Russell I think is kinda overrated. I'm not sure who ultimately sparks that team. Maybe a top 3 pick next draft can do something? Otherwise they are in a rough spot.

Butler also doesn't seem to make friends most places he goes which is why he is in Miami and not Philly. He has an insane work ethic and calls people out, but does so in a way that rubs others wrong. KAT needs a team that has a culture that will instill winning mentality in order to flourish. MIN ain't it. If someone with some pedigree and respect pushed KAT the right way, he may become an absolute monster. We won't know for sure though unless he actually gets into such a situation.
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Re: Memphis Grizzlies 2020-21 Preseason Games 

Post#20 » by VCfor3 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:33 pm

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Heck of a game. Shots fizzled a bit the second half for Atlanta, but it was a lot of fun. Can't wait until tomorrow for another round!

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