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Coming in peace, and seeking MEM fans' wisdom (proposed trade w/ ATL)

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Coming in peace, and seeking MEM fans' wisdom (proposed trade w/ ATL) 

Post#1 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:24 pm

Reading MEM bloggers and taking those opinions at face value, I get the impression that some Griz fans seem "meh" about Winslow, and also "meh" about Dieng.

At least one ATL fan who claims insider intel has said that the front office has been taking calls on a Tony Snell deal, though ostensibly out of an interest to parlay Snell off to a team where his $12m salary might benefit someone's payroll management. (Snell was obtained from DET in exchange for Dewayne Dedmon, as some probably recall.)

Snell's main benefit? He's been among the most consistent 3PG% guys in the league for awhile now, hitting 40% in each of the most recent 4 seasons. Snell's main deficit? People have tried to claim he's an average defender, but practically none of the defensive metrics bear that out.

From my perspective, though, ATL's done plenty on the offensive side of the equation this off-season, and could really use one more high-regard defensive asset.

Winslow's injury history, of course, is a concern. And adding Dieng would represent a net $5m addition to the ATL payroll.

So what are your thoughts if there were to be a Snell/Winslow swap proposed? Then, Snell/Dieng? Not here to argue (as-if any of us have any say anyhow), but just to probe the thinking of a sample of MEM fans.
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Re: Coming in peace, and seeking MEM fans' wisdom (proposed trade w/ ATL) 

Post#2 » by Whole Truth » Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:49 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote: So what are your thoughts if there were to be a Snell/Winslow swap proposed? Then, Snell/Dieng? Not here to argue (as-if any of us have any say anyhow), but just to probe the thinking of a sample of MEM fans.


The trade has a younger Memphis team not yet ready to fully compete trading a 24yo big wing defender, secondary ball handler because of injury concerns for a 29yo vet, who by the time Memphis are ready to compete won't be on roster.

Let me start my response by stating what Memphis traded to land Winslow in the first place.

3 serviceable vets (Iggy, Crowder, Hill) while taking on 30m worth of dead weight salary (Johnson, Waiters) the salary saving equivalent of one very lightly protected pick or 2 solid FRP's. Where Memphis had to then waive Waiters to not have a toxic personality on roster.

In knowing what Memphis gave up, you think they will now trade him when he's about ready to suit up & play, for Snell in a straight swap ?.

To answer your post, I don't see any Memphis incentive here & think the trade is one sided in favor of Atlanta on many levels, youth, potential, fit, need etc..

For some trade dialog, offer up some pick compensation ..
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Re: Coming in peace, and seeking MEM fans' wisdom (proposed trade w/ ATL) 

Post#3 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:55 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote: So what are your thoughts if there were to be a Snell/Winslow swap proposed? Then, Snell/Dieng? Not here to argue (as-if any of us have any say anyhow), but just to probe the thinking of a sample of MEM fans.


The trade has a younger Memphis team not yet ready to fully compete trading a 24yo big wing defender, secondary ball handler because of injury concerns for a 29yo vet, who by the time Memphis are ready to compete won't be on roster.

Let me start my response by stating what Memphis traded to land Winslow in the first place.

3 serviceable vets (Iggy, Crowder, Hill) while taking on 30m worth of dead weight salary (Johnson, Waiters) the salary saving equivalent of one very lightly protected pick or 2 solid FRP's. Where Memphis had to then waive Waiters to not have a toxic personality on roster.

In knowing what Memphis gave up, you think they will now trade him when he's about ready to suit up & play, for Snell in a straight swap ?.

To answer your post, I don't see any Memphis incentive here & think the trade is one sided in favor of Atlanta on many levels, youth, potential, fit, need etc..

For some trade dialog, offer up some pick compensation ..


Well-taken.

And then, Dieng?
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Re: Coming in peace, and seeking MEM fans' wisdom (proposed trade w/ ATL) 

Post#4 » by Whole Truth » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:06 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote: Well-taken.

And then, Dieng?


Memphis IMO actually need to consolidate in a trade. A 2 for 1 type deal. We're facing an issue of having a lot of solid players in need of playing time that might get left out.

It's why if I were to trade Winslow, I'd combine his value with Deing for potentially 30m in expiring value for a bad contract & draft consideration/s.

Would Atlanta consider (Okongwu, Snell) for (Winslow & GS 2024 top 4 pick) ?
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Re: Coming in peace, and seeking MEM fans' wisdom (proposed trade w/ ATL) 

Post#5 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:54 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote: Well-taken.

And then, Dieng?


Memphis IMO actually need to consolidate in a trade. A 2 for 1 type deal. We're facing an issue of having a lot of solid players in need of playing time that might get left out.

It's why if I were to trade Winslow, I'd combine his value with Deing for potentially 30m in expiring value for a bad contract & draft consideration/s.

Would Atlanta consider (Okongwu, Snell) for (Winslow & GS 2024 top 4 pick) ?


Don't think very many teams would consider trading their #6 pick before he ever hit the floor... right?

No, I think the only interest from ATL perspective would be to trade one year of Snell for one year of some defense-first asset.

I anticipated the Winslow reaction, though I did honestly read a MEM blogger who was adamant that the team would do better to convert that roster slot to someone who would be a whole lot more likely to play a full season. (I agree with you, though.)

Dieng for Snell, though, seems more plausible to me. Should it?
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Re: Coming in peace, and seeking MEM fans' wisdom (proposed trade w/ ATL) 

Post#6 » by Whole Truth » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:33 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote: Well-taken.

And then, Dieng?


Memphis IMO actually need to consolidate in a trade. A 2 for 1 type deal. We're facing an issue of having a lot of solid players in need of playing time that might get left out.

It's why if I were to trade Winslow, I'd combine his value with Deing for potentially 30m in expiring value for a bad contract & draft consideration/s.

Would Atlanta consider (Okongwu, Snell) for (Winslow & GS 2024 top 4 pick) ?


Don't think very many teams would consider trading their #6 pick before he ever hit the floor... right?

No, I think the only interest from ATL perspective would be to trade one year of Snell for one year of some defense-first asset.

I anticipated the Winslow reaction, though I did honestly read a MEM blogger who was adamant that the team would do better to convert that roster slot to someone who would be a whole lot more likely to play a full season. (I agree with you, though.)

Dieng for Snell, though, seems more plausible to me. Should it?


While unlikely, it's not unprecedented. I understand your point of view.

Dieng for Snell seems more fair in value but with 3J out, Dieng is currently insurance depth.

Personally, I'd like to consolidate his expiring value into a bad contact & pick/s so if a 3rd team wanted Snell for a salary dump, I'd be for it.
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Re: Coming in peace, and seeking MEM fans' wisdom (proposed trade w/ ATL) 

Post#7 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:07 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
Memphis IMO actually need to consolidate in a trade. A 2 for 1 type deal. We're facing an issue of having a lot of solid players in need of playing time that might get left out.

It's why if I were to trade Winslow, I'd combine his value with Deing for potentially 30m in expiring value for a bad contract & draft consideration/s.

Would Atlanta consider (Okongwu, Snell) for (Winslow & GS 2024 top 4 pick) ?


Don't think very many teams would consider trading their #6 pick before he ever hit the floor... right?

No, I think the only interest from ATL perspective would be to trade one year of Snell for one year of some defense-first asset.

I anticipated the Winslow reaction, though I did honestly read a MEM blogger who was adamant that the team would do better to convert that roster slot to someone who would be a whole lot more likely to play a full season. (I agree with you, though.)

Dieng for Snell, though, seems more plausible to me. Should it?


While unlikely, it's not unprecedented. I understand your point of view.

Dieng for Snell seems more fair in value but with 3J out, Dieng is currently insurance depth.

Personally, I'd like to consolidate his expiring value into a bad contact & pick/s so if a 3rd team wanted Snell for a salary dump, I'd be for it.


Pretty surprising, though, to me anyway, how much legitimate NBA bench talent has been left unsigned out of free agency, and among those, there are some decently productive bigs like a John Henson or (just in the last day or two) Noah Vonleh.

In fact, if ATL keeps Snell--and there's no reason right now to think they won't--I'm anticipating their next move might be to sign one of those, and let go of the 4th PG on the roster once both Rondo and Dunn get back to full health.

But the point being, if MEM dealt Dieng for Snell, not only would they have subtracted $5m from the payroll, they could fairly reasonably go get someone who provides some adequate depth in the front court.
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Re: Coming in peace, and seeking MEM fans' wisdom (proposed trade w/ ATL) 

Post#8 » by VCfor3 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:54 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote: :D

Feel free to reach out anytime! I think the great thing about these boards is that you can see how other team's fans feel about players and their value.

As for the deals, I think Memphis will hold onto Winslow unless there is clear positive value coming back for the reasons Whole Truth said. Memphis gave up a decent bit for him and in theory he fits what we need if he can ever get healthy. We also can decline the TO for next season if he no longer becomes worth the investment so we aren't worried about future financial implications if we hold onto him.

With Dieng, I again agree with Whole Truth and his point about us kinda needing big depth with the JJJ injury but I could still see us potentially doing the deal. We like Dieng as a great locker room guy and he is a solid player who just happens to be woefully overpaid. That said, if the cap savings were something our FO felt would help them in future deals this season then it is reasonable. I don't know much about Snell but he seems like an okay locker room guy and moving Dieng would give Tillman and Jontay Porter some playing time. We would basically be doing a soft tank move, but with this draft it could be worth it as long as it doesn't upset the rest of the team. I can't see Memphis offering any additional value though so I don't think the deal would be worth it for Atlanta. Dieng would either not play for more money than Snell or would cut into Onyeka's minutes which I guess may help you get to the playoffs this year but would be terrible for his development.
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Re: Coming in peace, and seeking MEM fans' wisdom (proposed trade w/ ATL) 

Post#9 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:56 am

VCfor3 wrote:
_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote: :D

Feel free to reach out anytime! I think the great thing about these boards is that you can see how other team's fans feel about players and their value.

As for the deals, I think Memphis will hold onto Winslow unless there is clear positive value coming back for the reasons Whole Truth said. Memphis gave up a decent bit for him and in theory he fits what we need if he can ever get healthy. We also can decline the TO for next season if he no longer becomes worth the investment so we aren't worried about future financial implications if we hold onto him.

With Dieng, I again agree with Whole Truth and his point about us kinda needing big depth with the JJJ injury but I could still see us potentially doing the deal. We like Dieng as a great locker room guy and he is a solid player who just happens to be woefully overpaid. That said, if the cap savings were something our FO felt would help them in future deals this season then it is reasonable. I don't know much about Snell but he seems like an okay locker room guy and moving Dieng would give Tillman and Jontay Porter some playing time. We would basically be doing a soft tank move, but with this draft it could be worth it as long as it doesn't upset the rest of the team. I can't see Memphis offering any additional value though so I don't think the deal would be worth it for Atlanta. Dieng would either not play for more money than Snell or would cut into Onyeka's minutes which I guess may help you get to the playoffs this year but would be terrible for his development.


Appreciate the congenial spirit.

From an ATL perspective, it will be interesting to see now that the tanking phase is explicitly understood as past history whether King Kong will get significant minutes. Up until now, it was just an innate thing--rookies had to play, and it was by design. Many head coaches, though, in a playoff-goal paradigm purposely attempt to bring a rookie along slowly--Pierce's predecessor Budenholzer was one of those.

My opinion is that, in a world where a Dieng/Snell trade happened, indeed Dieng would absorb some significant minutes. And that he would be especially important in playoff series, given his senior veteran status. Snell is about the same age, of course, but I feel like we've got enough on the wings, whereas Capela is our one and only 25+ at the 5, barring any decision to try Gallo there--which I know sounds a little weird, but won't be surprised if it's given a shot.
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