Vindication

[PhD Griz]

thank you james posey....

like memphisX said on the griz board, the pau trade is just another trade now...

silly turnovers....soft defense....poor rebounding effort....disappearing in the 4th quarter....missing dunks and layups.....poor free throw shooting....throwing the ball over the top of the backboard....

today is vindication day in memphis....

[GrizzledGrizzFan]

As another poster said on the Grizz boards, no it isn't. The Lakers are still in the Finals and likely wouldn't be there without Pau. We still got too little for Pau. It is and always will be a horrible, horrible trade for Memphis.

[PhD Griz]

regardless of if we got too little for Pau, it's vindication b/c he isn't as good as everyone made him up to be right after the trade was made....

he's only their 3rd or 4th best player.....

in the 2nd half of games, he might only be their 5th or 6th best player....

no one remembers who lost in the finals....

[Ant]

Indeed.

Although I still think the Grizz didn't get enough (Especially in the form of draft picks) It warms my soul to see Pau flopping, missing defensive assignments, vanishing in the 4th quarter and complaining to refs with his nappy face hair.

This is great. Couldn't happen on a larger stage.

[GrizzledGrizzFan]

I would love to have a poster of the Ganett put back dunk over a shrieking Pau from Game 1. That was a classic shot.



Or watch it here.

[jman3134]

regardless of if we got too little for Pau, it's vindication b/c he isn't as good as everyone made him up to be right after the trade was made....

he's only their 3rd or 4th best player.....

in the 2nd half of games, he might only be their 5th or 6th best player....

no one remembers who lost in the finals....

Try their second best player even if he did not look it.

There's absolutely no vindication because we received nothing for the guy who helped get the Lakers to the Finals. Even if he is playing poorly, you have to think that the Triangle is an adjustment.

Anyway, we do remember who lost in the finals because more people are watching the finals.

[Double Dribble]

But..but...but the trade worked under the trade checker!

[PhD Griz]

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Try their second best player even if he did not look it.

There's absolutely no vindication because we received nothing for the guy who helped get the Lakers to the Finals. Even if he is playing poorly, you have to think that the Triangle is an adjustment.

Anyway, we do remember who lost in the finals because more people are watching the finals.

getting out from under his ridiculous contract was good enough....

[Double Dribble]

I weep for our country. Apparently, it's "slander" to say the spanish are thin-skinned, but this is what government-controlled education gets us.

[boogiesdad]

Please limit comments to the thread topic and not disrespecting people of a foreign country.

[Double Dribble]

disrespecting people of a foreign country? oh, please.

[jman3134]

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getting out from under his ridiculous contract was good enough....

If you trade a border line allstar for nothing (and I mean absolutely nothing), there is no vindication involved. Whether or not that allstar is an underachiever, his perceived value is higher than what we got in the trade. (especially at the time) Thereby, it was a stupid move.

[Double Dribble]

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If you trade a border line allstar for nothing (and I mean absolutely nothing), there is no vindication involved. Whether or not that allstar is an underachiever, his perceived value is higher than what we got in the trade. (especially at the time) Thereby, it was a stupid move.

let's clear up this myth. Pau is not an all-star, nor is he a borderline all-star. he was an all-star. once. and he has the distinct achievement of being the only player to not score a point in a game that is nothing but a public relations/marketing tool. being an all-star doesn't guarantee a team x number of wins.

we got something in return for Pau, upcoming salary cap relief, but you just don't like what it is.

[PhD Griz]

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If you trade a border line allstar for nothing (and I mean absolutely nothing), there is no vindication involved. Whether or not that allstar is an underachiever, his perceived value is higher than what we got in the trade. (especially at the time) Thereby, it was a stupid move.

if you over pay for a $30,000 chevy tahoe by paying $60,000 dollars and want to get rid of it and all you get is financial relief instead of a $30,000 bmw.....how is that a bad deal?

yes, i wanted more from the pau deal, but it wasn't that bad of a deal....

[jman3134]

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let's clear up this myth. Pau is not an all-star, nor is he a borderline all-star. he was an all-star. once. and he has the distinct achievement of being the only player to not score a point in a game that is nothing but a public relations/marketing tool. being an all-star doesn't guarantee a team x number of wins.

we got something in return for Pau, upcoming salary cap relief, but you just don't like what it is.

I think that's a load of crap. Certainly, it does not guarantee you a certain number of wins. But, it also creates a perception where you are worth more than Kwame Brown and an end of the 1st round pick. Let's trade every top player on every team that isn't winning simply for cap relief? Not a bad idea, eh? We gave him three years, so now we can trade him for a pile of dirt simply to engage in a "rebuilding process". If we were really rebuilding we would have at least received a mid first rounder- you know someone that you can possibly add into the lineup.

Great teams are not built from the free agent market....especially in Memphis where no player seems to want to go. This is the myth you live by. Sorry, Bayless said he does not want to be drafted by Memphis. Before him Steve Francis refused to play for this team. No free agent who wants to win is going to come to the Grizzlies.

[Double Dribble]

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I think that's a load of crap. Certainly, it does not guarantee you a certain number of wins. But, it also creates a perception where you are worth more than Kwame Brown and an end of the 1st round pick. Let's trade every top player on every team that isn't winning simply for cap relief? Not a bad idea, eh? We gave him three years, so now we can trade him for a pile of dirt simply to engage in a "rebuilding process". If we were really rebuilding we would have at least received a mid first rounder- you know someone that you can possibly add into the lineup.

it's not a load of crap; it's the truth. and don't stoop to distortions. no one is talking about trading every player simply for cap relief, and Pau has been on the team for almost 7 seasons, not 3. he was always our #1 option.

Great teams are not built from the free agent market....especially in Memphis where no player seems to want to go. This is the myth you live by. Sorry, Bayless said he does not want to be drafted by Memphis. Before him Steve Francis refused to play for this team. No free agent who wants to win is going to come to the Grizzlies.

i've never said that great teams are built from the free agent market; i've said the way to build a team is through free agency and trades, and not with the draft.

and that is EXACTLY what the grizzlies did to achieve their first winning season and their first playoff appearance. if you're waiting for the grizzlies to be a great team, then you are waiting for something that will never, ever happen.

[jman3134]

it's not a load of crap; it's the truth. and don't stoop to distortions. no one is talking about trading every player simply for cap relief, and Pau has been on the team for almost 7 seasons, not 3. he was always our #1 option.

I was referring to the years where he had the personnel to win. But, how is this a distortion? You are saying that the goal was cap relief and that we are in rebuilding mode. If so, what did that trade give us to build with besides numbers in a cap relief. Then we have to rely on overplaying players in the free agent market just so they can underachieve. Then we are bidding on the market for overhyped talent most likely.

i've never said that great teams are built from the free agent market; i've said the way to build a team is through free agency and trades, and not with the draft.

and that is EXACTLY what the grizzlies did to achieve their first winning season and their first playoff appearance. if you're waiting for the grizzlies to be a great team, then you are waiting for something that will never, ever happen.

Oh yes, and all those playoff wins to go along with our first winning season. We developed a supporting cast through the free agent market- but we always lacked a superstar. Until we get that, we are not going to win. And, it is a matter of luck and winning out by superior scouting in the draft for the small market Grizzlies. Maybe your goal is to have the Grizz in the playoffs. Mine is to have a chance at winning it all. The way to do this is through the draft. You receive talent at a low price and can tie them in with draft day deals. They receive far less than overhyped players who opt out to make more money on the free agent market. Just look at a Bobby Simmons, or some of the other noteworthy play well for one year-steal your money and rot on the bench free agents. The real winner role players who have experience and want to win are going to go to proven teams. Thus, we are not going to get the talent needed to win it all through the free agent market and everything is the luck of the draw.

[Double Dribble]

Then we have to rely on overplaying players in the free agent market just so they can underachieve.

another strawman.

i've never said that great teams are built from the free agent market; i've said the way to build a team is through free agency and trades, and not with the draft.

and that is EXACTLY what the grizzlies did to achieve their first winning season and their first playoff appearance. if you're waiting for the grizzlies to be a great team, then you are waiting for something that will never, ever happen.

Oh yes, and all those playoff wins to go along with our first winning season. We developed a supporting cast through the free agent market- but we always lacked a superstar.

you're trying to move the goalposts. did we or did we not build up the talent on the team through free agency and trades? it is a fact that we did. did we or did we not make the playoffs as a resut? it is a fact that we did.

Maybe your goal is to have the Grizz in the playoffs. Mine is to have a chance at winning it all. The way to do this is through the draft.

the odds for winning it all are slim to none. that's the way it is. there are a select few number of teams that win in any sport over any period of time. think of all the teams that have never won championships. they are very, very slim odds. if you want to rely on the draft, then you'll be happy as a pig in ****, because you are assured to be a lottery team every year.

[jman3134]

you're trying to move the goalposts. did we or did we not build up the talent on the team through free agency and trades? it is a fact that we did. did we or did we not make the playoffs as a resut? it is a fact that we did.

No, it shows that even with top free agents on our roster, without a superstar, you are not going to be able to win a playoff game.

the odds for winning it all are slim to none. that's the way it is. there are a select few number of teams that win in any sport over any period of time. think of all the teams that have never won championships. they are very, very slim odds. if you want to rely on the draft, then you'll be happy as a pig in ****, because you are assured to be a lottery team every year.

And, with our team in the location that it is in, we are not going to attract anything but local talent- if that. The odds of winning are even more slim in a small market where free agents do not flock to go to. The right free agents go to mainline markets so that they can get their names out there and play for a team with tradition. We have no tradition to fall back on. We have nothing at this point. So, what is your plan for attracting free agents? Being able to outspend other teams to attract middle of the road junk and give them hefty contracts? That's what you're saying. You're not giving me a fullproof plan to acquire the big name free agents on the market. The fact is that there is a better chance of finding a star in the lottery. You pay him less and tie him down for a few years.

Our previous playoff experience shows that we need a superstar. Until we find one, the sad truth is that there is no way we are going anywhere. But, isn't that the truth with most small franchises? Look at the Spurs. (and they had some tradition with Gervin) Before Tim Duncan, they were one of the worst teams in the league even with an aging David Robinson. But, the draft pick turned the franchise around.

[jman3134]

I'd rather be cheap and acquire less expensive talent in the lottery than overpriced talent in free agency.