MEM trade???

[plucas]

Would memphis fans mind a trade something like: I dont think Gay & Mayo will be able to coexist together on a successful basketball team.
MEM trades: Gay, Millicic
MEM receives:Luol Deng, Jarred Bayless

[dark-child]

Before we analyze the trade, do you mind enlightening the rest of us why Mayo & Gay can not coexist? Please include in your response the number of Grizzly games you actually watched and any first hand accounts from either of the involved parties regarding their hatred for the other.

Thanks,

[GrizzledGrizzFan]

Would memphis fans mind a trade something like: I dont think Gay & Mayo will be able to coexist together on a successful basketball team.

I wholly disagree with you. Not that my opinion is better than yours, but I got to watch them quite a few times in person this year and don't agree with that assessment at all. The problems with Rudy early in the year were with Iavaroni - not Mayo.

In regards to the trade, no thanks. Don't like Deng's contract.

[360]

I don't like that trade, but I do agree that Rudy and Mayo can not coexist. I watched every single game that was aired locally and even a couple that weren't when I was able to find them online. Mayo and Gay were not a good duo, mainly because of Rudy's selfishness. He wasn't that much better under Hollins. It's like they weren't even on the same team most of the time. They did nothing to feed off of each other's games. No pick and rolls, no pick and pops...nothing. Rudy gets doubled and he will force up a bad shot instead of kicking it out to OJ. I blame this largely on the coach (both Ivy and Hollins) and then Rudy.

Rudy didn't start to play well until January. And when he did, everyone kept asking, "when are those two going to go big on the same night?" It didn't happen (atleast consistently) until April. By then it was too late. I'm not convinced that Rudy will continue to play team ball. I think it's likely that he'll revert back to his selfish, lazy, uninspired ways once the Grizzlies extend him.

Imo, it could possibly be even worse next year. I don't think Mayo will be as quiet and he will not hit the wall that he hit this year. So he's not going to go away and give Rudy the opportunity to take over after he's tired the way it happened this season.

Those two did not appear to be friends. You could tell who the friends were - Rudy, Hak, and Lowry- and then Mayo and Gasol. I don't see how anyone who watched them play this season could say different.

So yeah, I'm not sold on this Rudy and OJ core that everyone thought was so promising to start the season.

[It_Was_Typed]

I agree that Rudy and Juice can't play well together.

However, that trade is not very appealing.

[plucas]

Mayo & Gay both need the ball to be effective. Deng has a post arsenal although somewhat limited and is fine playing off ball. Although I do agree that Deng's contract isn't good at all. Bayless would give great backup relief at the 1 & 2 guard. If Chicago were to include the #26 in the trade would it be something Memphis would look into? I figured Bayless may be the selling point for Memphis covering the 1 & 2 for years to come

[GrizzledGrizzFan]

No, just not a good deal for the Grizz IMO. Whatever your opinion of Gay he's worth more than that - even adding the 26th, which in this draft isn't worth all that much.

[dookieguy]

I thought Jerryd was in POR.

[bgassassin]

I don't like that trade, but I do agree that Rudy and Mayo can not coexist. I watched every single game that was aired locally and even a couple that weren't when I was able to find them online. Mayo and Gay were not a good duo, mainly because of Rudy's selfishness. He wasn't that much better under Hollins. It's like they weren't even on the same team most of the time. They did nothing to feed off of each other's games. No pick and rolls, no pick and pops...nothing. Rudy gets doubled and he will force up a bad shot instead of kicking it out to OJ. I blame this largely on the coach (both Ivy and Hollins) and then Rudy.

Rudy didn't start to play well until January. And when he did, everyone kept asking, "when are those two going to go big on the same night?" It didn't happen (atleast consistently) until April. By then it was too late. I'm not convinced that Rudy will continue to play team ball. I think it's likely that he'll revert back to his selfish, lazy, uninspired ways once the Grizzlies extend him.

Imo, it could possibly be even worse next year. I don't think Mayo will be as quiet and he will not hit the wall that he hit this year. So he's not going to go away and give Rudy the opportunity to take over after he's tired the way it happened this season.

Those two did not appear to be friends. You could tell who the friends were - Rudy, Hak, and Lowry- and then Mayo and Gasol. I don't see how anyone who watched them play this season could say different.

So yeah, I'm not sold on this Rudy and OJ core that everyone thought was so promising to start the season.

I will always hold on to the Clippers game as proof that if Mayo is used properly, those two can play together.

[GrizzledGrizzFan]

I thought Jerryd was in POR.

The OP is putting together a larger deal, checking first to see if the Grizz will play ball or not.

[360]

I don't like that trade, but I do agree that Rudy and Mayo can not coexist. I watched every single game that was aired locally and even a couple that weren't when I was able to find them online. Mayo and Gay were not a good duo, mainly because of Rudy's selfishness. He wasn't that much better under Hollins. It's like they weren't even on the same team most of the time. They did nothing to feed off of each other's games. No pick and rolls, no pick and pops...nothing. Rudy gets doubled and he will force up a bad shot instead of kicking it out to OJ. I blame this largely on the coach (both Ivy and Hollins) and then Rudy.

Rudy didn't start to play well until January. And when he did, everyone kept asking, "when are those two going to go big on the same night?" It didn't happen (atleast consistently) until April. By then it was too late. I'm not convinced that Rudy will continue to play team ball. I think it's likely that he'll revert back to his selfish, lazy, uninspired ways once the Grizzlies extend him.

Imo, it could possibly be even worse next year. I don't think Mayo will be as quiet and he will not hit the wall that he hit this year. So he's not going to go away and give Rudy the opportunity to take over after he's tired the way it happened this season.

Those two did not appear to be friends. You could tell who the friends were - Rudy, Hak, and Lowry- and then Mayo and Gasol. I don't see how anyone who watched them play this season could say different.

So yeah, I'm not sold on this Rudy and OJ core that everyone thought was so promising to start the season.

I will always hold on to the Clippers game as proof that if Mayo is used properly, those two can play together.

Yeah but Mayo will not be playing point for the Grizzlies; especially not under Hollins's watch. I can see Hollins blocking any trade that sends Conley away and Hollins has already stated that he doesn't even want OJ dreaming about playing point.

[bgassassin]

Probably, but the conspiracy theorist in me wants to believe that things happened in part to boost Conley's trade value if nothing else. Hollins had to say that to keep Conley focused and not "looking over his shoulder", since Mayo was going to be out on the court anyway and they had a $7M contract that would have just been sitting on the bench. Also, and I'm either "misremembering" or being too nitpicky, but Hollins only said that they want to see if Conley can be an NBA PG. "For us" was not a part of that statement.

I did find it funny that not even a week after Hollins infamous "not an option" statement (which I'm sure Tillery couldn't wait to write that), Conley goes out and once Hollins finally puts Mayo in control the point swing was amazing. Same thing happened in that first Phoenix game. A big point swing when Mayo had the ball and that was under Iavaroni. Something came to mind so I decided to look at Mayo's assists and TO numbers for that frame because I didn't remember OJ having many TOs during those times. Sure enough if you combine the two, OJ had 7asts and 1TO. But he's not an option at PG so I guess it doesn't matter.

EDIT: Also what was interesting is the amount of team assists that occurred during those times. In the Phx game, 5 of the Grizzlies 10 assists occurred in the fourth and 14 of their 30 happened after Mayo came in towards the end of the third against the Clippers.

And those point swings I mentioned briefly were a 14-point swing before losing by 5 to Phx and a 26-point swing against the Clippers.

[360]

Probably, but the conspiracy theorist in me wants to believe that things happened in part to boost Conley's trade value if nothing else. Hollins had to say that to keep Conley focused and not "looking over his shoulder", since Mayo was going to be out on the court anyway and they had a $7M contract that would have just been sitting on the bench. Also, and I'm either "misremembering" or being too nitpicky, but Hollins only said that they want to see if Conley can be an NBA PG. "For us" was not a part of that statement.

I don't know about that. I think that Hollins has a legitimate man crush on Conley. The only thing that would make me believe in the theory you posted is if I were to take Wallace's comments on how he envisioned our backcourt seriously. He said that he wanted a big backcourt that included two guys who could be interchangeable at the 1 and 2 positions. That does not describe a Mayo and Conley backcourt. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that Wallace has a tremendous amount of influence, especially not on how Hollins chooses to use our players.

I did find it funny that not even a week after Hollins infamous "not an option" statement (which I'm sure Tillery couldn't wait to write that), Conley goes out and once Hollins finally puts Mayo in control the point swing was amazing. Same thing happened in that first Phoenix game. A big point swing when Mayo had the ball and that was under Iavaroni. Something came to mind so I decided to look at Mayo's assists and TO numbers for that frame because I didn't remember OJ having many TOs during those times. Sure enough if you combine the two, OJ had 7asts and 1TO. But he's not an option at PG so I guess it doesn't matter.

EDIT: Also what was interesting is the amount of team assists that occurred during those times. In the Phx game, 5 of the Grizzlies 10 assists occurred in the fourth and 14 of their 30 happened after Mayo came in towards the end of the third against the Clippers.

And those point swings I mentioned briefly were a 14-point swing before losing by 5 to Phx and a 26-point swing against the Clippers.

You raise some good points. Mayo's role in our offense should be much greater than what it is. I wasn't for moving OJ to the point full-time. I was hoping for him to develop into a great combo guard, but the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that OJ could thrive at the pg position.

My biggest concern with Mayo at point is his ball-handling. His ball-handling is absolutely terrible for a guard of his caliber. He usually gets it right back after it gets away from him, but it's almost comical sometimes the way the ball seems to just run away from him. I think he improved as the season went on, but you can also contribute that to the fact that the ball was in his hands less as the season went on. Other than that, he has alot of good qualities that would make him a great pg. He's smart. He has great vision. He is great in the open court (much faster than he is off the dribble). He is a great outside shooter. He draws double teams. He has a leader's mentality. Plus he will have a size advantage. And despite popular belief, he is unselfish and wants to get others involved.

Hollins has said that he didn't plan on OJ playing in Summer League, but what do you think about him playing in summer league and testing out his pg skills?

[bgassassin]

I don't know about that. I think that Hollins has a legitimate man crush on Conley. The only thing that would make me believe in the theory you posted is if I were to take Wallace's comments on how he envisioned our backcourt seriously. He said that he wanted a big backcourt that included two guys who could be interchangeable at the 1 and 2 positions. That does not describe a Mayo and Conley backcourt. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that Wallace has a tremendous amount of influence, especially not on how Hollins chooses to use our players.

That's why it will be funny if we end up with Evans. That fits more in to Wallace's idea of his preferred backcourt. I think Wallace backed off of his earlier statements due to what Hollins said to try to show some kind of "harmony". Deep down I think he still looks at Mayo as another Billups.

You raise some good points. Mayo's role in our offense should be much greater than what it is. I wasn't for moving OJ to the point full-time. I was hoping for him to develop into a great combo guard, but the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that OJ could thrive at the pg position.

My biggest concern with Mayo at point is his ball-handling. His ball-handling is absolutely terrible for a guard of his caliber. He usually gets it right back after it gets away from him, but it's almost comical sometimes the way the ball seems to just run away from him. I think he improved as the season went on, but you can also contribute that to the fact that the ball was in his hands less as the season went on. Other than that, he has alot of good qualities that would make him a great pg. He's smart. He has great vision. He is great in the open court (much faster than he is off the dribble). He is a great outside shooter. He draws double teams. He has a leader's mentality. Plus he will have a size advantage. And despite popular belief, he is unselfish and wants to get others involved.

Hollins has said that he didn't plan on OJ playing in Summer League, but what do you think about him playing in summer league and testing out his pg skills?

I must have missed where Hollins said this. Was it in an article or something? That would suck if that happened because your question was the main reason why I was looking forward to the Summer League. I won't care much at all if OJ isn't there and not getting PG time.

I think OJ's talent would be maximized at PG. That Billups article on ESPN mentions things that are eerily similar to what we see with Mayo right now.

IMO the biggest issue with OJ's dribbling is that he had a tendency of leaning too much on drives putting his foot or the defender's foot in the way, combined with an average arm length. If his arms were longer, he could get away with it IMO. For comparison sake look these pre-draft measurements. Mayo was 6'4.25 with a 6'6 wingspan. Conley was 6'0.75 with a 6'5.75 wingspan. Mayo had a three and a half inch height advantage, but only a quarter of an inch difference in wingspan. To be honest, that was my first time looking at that comparison even though I felt that Mayo's arms and leaning were the cause of dribbling off his/another's foot. Mayo will have to learn to compensate for his "shorter" arms on drives. However we have also seen where he's made complex crossovers look easy and they have occurred primarily when he was not doing much leaning if any.

You know, Mayo's vision gets a bad rap from some of the Conley supporters. Mayo sees things very well, however he still has to get adjusted to the speed of NBA players and the game. Passes that got through in high school and college are picked off or deflected because NBA players are better experienced and better athletes. That to me is just a timing issue that I believe he will overcome. And I fully agree with your other points.

I personally expect Mayo to hone his PG skills this summer and hope it doesn't take four to five years like it did with Billups to realize where he needs to be played at.

[360]

Here is the article bg.
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/apr/12/los-angeles-lakers-top-memphis-grizzlies-92-75/

Here is the quote.

Suffice it to say, Mayo has earned the right to skip summer league action in July when the Griz play at Las Vegas.

“I wasn’t counting on him playing summer league,” Griz coach Lionel Hollins said. “My plan is to have our core guys come out and spend the week with us in Las Vegas and get some individual work and just be together.”


And yeah, I would love an Evans/Mayo backcourt.

[bgassassin]

Yeah, I looked right over that. I can understand from a rest standpoint, but he still needs every chance he can to work on his game in live situations.

[It_Was_Typed]

Juice at PG sounds enticing, but he's a natural SG in my eyes.

Best thing for him would be to become like Brandon Roy/Joe Johnson and run PG in spots.

[MaceCase]

Juice at PG sounds enticing, but he's a natural SG in my eyes.

Best thing for him would be to become like Brandon Roy/Joe Johnson and run PG in spots.

Funny you mention Joe, I was just throwing out an idea of a Joe, future 1st for OJ, Darko, lakers pick idea. Nothing serious just want thoughts from Grizz fans yay or nay, no need to be hurtful of my feelings

[GrizzledGrizzFan]

No thanks - not at this time at least.

[DaVoiceMaster]

I'm still waiting to see why Portland gives up Bayless?!?!?!?!