MIN-MEM rumor?

ritt0093 · Post #1 » by **ritt0093** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:29 pm

Hi everyone,

In various Timberwolves boards there has been lots of speculation that the Wolves are trying to trade for the #2 pick. (additionally the rumor continues that they would draft Thabeet). The current speculation is that MIN's package includes (but not limited to) the #6 and Kevin Love. Have you guys heard anything similar? Thanks!

GrizzledGrizzFan · Post #2 » by **GrizzledGrizzFan** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:50 pm

This is being discussed on the Memphis Grizz.com boards - however, the RealGM T'Wolves boards is the only source for info so far. Looks like there may be a fit - just have to see if the pieces are right.

Downtown · Post #3 » by **Downtown** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:14 pm

I guess it all depends on how Minnesota's new management sees things. McHale really liked Kevin Love and saw no problem playing both him and Jefferson together. But alot of new Gm's make that one big change right at the beginning to signal it's their team and their vision. Maybe the new guy really does see Thabeet as the cornerstone defensive anchor that the offensive players play around. If that is the case then I suppose it is possible that these teams once again make a big switch on draft day.

Obviously Memphis knows what Kevin Love can do. The question is whether they think getting him with the #2 pick is better than keeping the pick and going after a free agent power forward, which would cost them more.

The second question is what else would be included in a deal with the Timberwolves? Conley? Gay? What gives them the best bang for the buck? Pointguard or small forward? How do they view the #18 pick and who they can get there that might fill one of those positions? How does Minnesota see thengs?

From the Grizzlies perspective do they see Love as being as good as anything they could get with the #2? My guess is that there will be multiple offers for the #2 pick that includes a power forward. Are they going after the #6 pick as well or would it be Kevin Love and #18 for #2? If either Conley or Gay were involved how would they replace them?

I could see these teams as trade partners but there's alot of questions that need to be answered before they would feel a win/win trade is possible.

My personal feeling is that Minnesota would need either Gay or Conley as well as Thabeet to give up Love and #6. If I were the Gm and wanted Thabeet in exchange for Love I would offer up the #18 instead and go with one of the pointguards at #6.

From a Memphis standpoint I take the deal of Love and #6 for Thabeet and either Gay or Conley. I think they might want Tyreke Evans and this puts them in the running for him while also getting the power forward they need. It would be a nice tidy package.

If Minnesota said that they weren't going to give up both Love and the #6, but instead were prepared to offer the #18 along with Love then I still make the deal but only give up #2 and #27. Love is still better than anyone at #2 in my opinion. And they then move up from #27 to #18, which is a significant move up. Heck, they may still be able to move Conley and #18 to have a shot at one of the top pointguards.

I like this rumor and I think there's alot of combinations that work. But the bottom line is that Minnesota has to want Thabeet before anything is triggered. And that is something nobody outside of their inner circle knows.

dark-child · Post #4 » by **dark-child** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:40 pm

Downtown, I agree with 95% of what you just said with the one exception of including Rudy Gay in the deal regarding anything in this draft including Blake Griffith. I am not opposed to trading Rudy but would only do so to obtain a superstar. I just believe trading Rudy to obtain a rookie is taking a step back. The ideas you laid out regarding Minny are dead on. I like the idea of including Conley as it forces them to hand Mayo the reigns at the point. From an organizational stand point Hollins is in the minority regarding the future point guard - Mayo, so why delay that decision. Conley is also today better than any point guard in the draft but not necessarily will be a year or two from now. Mayo has better upside than even Conley at the position and would give the Grizz an advantage of size and strength there. If Tyreke Evans is there guy than they will make this move and let it involve the #6. If Wallace is able to get the #18 as well for the #27 than he is not the company man dufous so many believe him to be.

pumuki · Post #5 » by **pumuki** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:14 pm

dark-child wrote: If Tyreke Evans is there guy than they will make this move and let it involve the #6. If Wallace is able to get the #18 as well for the #27 than he is not the company man dufous so many believe him to be.

#2 + #27 + Conley for #6 + #18 + Love

Wow I see this deal going down on draft day, really benefits both teams, fits both rosters and both Gms have story doing deals.

Conley + Foye + Brewer + Al + Thabeet

and

Mayo + Curry/Evans/Harden + Gay + Love + Gasol

GREAT young exciting lineups !!! The deal would even make both teams bring more fans and sell more tickets !!!

BarbaGrizz · Post #6 » by **BarbaGrizz** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:16 am

pumuki wrote:
dark-child wrote: If Tyreke Evans is there guy than they will make this move and let it involve the #6. If Wallace is able to get the #18 as well for the #27 than he is not the company man dufous so many believe him to be.

#2 + #27 + Conley for #6 + #18 + Love

Wow I see this deal going down on draft day, really benefits both teams, fits both rosters and both Gms have story doing deals.

Conley + Foye + Brewer + Al + Thabeet

and

Mayo + Curry/Evans/Harden + Gay + Love + Gasol

GREAT young exciting lineups !!! The deal would even make both teams bring more fans and sell more tickets !!!

I could live with this deal, specially if we end up with Tyreke at #6

john2jer · Post #7 » by **john2jer** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:37 pm

Love ~= #2
#6>Conley
#18>#27

That's a bad deal for the Wolves.

Effigy · Post #8 » by **Effigy** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:52 pm

I don't think Love is worth the 2 at all. I think it's a bad deal for Memphis, they go from possibly drafting an impact player at 2 to getting a couple of good pieces in Love and the six while losing Conley. But I do think that Memphis needs to draft Rubio, and if they aren't going to do that, then a trade makes sense, I just think this trade isn't good enough, I'm not sure I see Conley being part of it.

cpfsf · Post #9 » by **cpfsf** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:10 pm

john2jer wrote:Love ~= #2
#6>Conley
#18>#27

That's a bad deal for the Wolves.

this

GopherIt! · Post #10 » by **GopherIt!** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:18 pm

pumuki wrote:
dark-child wrote: If Tyreke Evans is there guy than they will make this move and let it involve the #6. If Wallace is able to get the #18 as well for the #27 than he is not the company man dufous so many believe him to be.

#2 + #27 + Conley for #6 + #18 + Love

Wow I see this deal going down on draft day, really benefits both teams, fits both rosters and both Gms have story doing deals.

Conley + Foye + Brewer + Al + Thabeet

and

Mayo + Curry/Evans/Harden + Gay + Love + Gasol

GREAT young exciting lineups !!! The deal would even make both teams bring more fans and sell more tickets !!!

MN wouldn't touch that. Love = #2 but most MN fans would rather keep Love.

GopherIt! · Post #11 » by **GopherIt!** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:28 pm

Bonzi wrote:I don't think Love is worth the 2 at all. I think it's a bad deal for Memphis, they go from possibly drafting an impact player at 2 to getting a couple of good pieces in Love and the six while losing Conley. But I do think that Memphis needs to draft Rubio, and if they aren't going to do that, then a trade makes sense, I just think this trade isn't good enough, I'm not sure I see Conley being part of it.

Bonzi, nothing good can come from a fan of a division rival coming in and speaking about one of MN's best players like this.

GopherIt! · Post #12 » by **GopherIt!** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:30 pm

ritt0093 wrote:Hi everyone,

In various Timberwolves boards there has been lots of speculation that the Wolves are trying to trade for the #2 pick. (additionally the rumor continues that they would draft Thabeet). The current speculation is that MIN's package includes (but not limited to) the #6 and Kevin Love. Have you guys heard anything similar? Thanks!

Correction. The current speculation is that Kahn offered the #6, #18 & #28 for the #2.

GrizzledGrizzFan · Post #13 » by **GrizzledGrizzFan** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:45 pm

GopherIt! wrote:Correction. The current speculation is that Kahn offered the #6, #18 & #28 for the #2.

Not sure that the Grizz would be interested in that package - not that it's a lowball or anything.

GopherIt! · Post #14 » by **GopherIt!** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:57 pm

GrizzledGrizzFan wrote:
GopherIt! wrote:Correction. The current speculation is that Kahn offered the #6, #18 & #28 for the #2.

Not sure that the Grizz would be interested in that package - not that it's a lowball or anything.

I feel ya. I think he is trying to cover all his bases.

I still see something like SAC and MEM trading Rubio for Hill/#23 as being more probable. I think Hill could potentially be a great fit next to Gasol for the Grizz.

GrizzledGrizzFan · Post #15 » by **GrizzledGrizzFan** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:02 pm

GopherIt! wrote:
GrizzledGrizzFan wrote:
GopherIt! wrote:Correction. The current speculation is that Kahn offered the #6, #18 & #28 for the #2.

Not sure that the Grizz would be interested in that package - not that it's a lowball or anything.

I feel ya. I think he is trying to cover all his bases.

I still see something like SAC and MEM trading Rubio for Hill/#23 as being more probable.

I honestly like the T'Wolves package better. The difference between 4 and 6 is beyond negligible. 4 & 23 < 6 & 18 & 28 - If the Grizz want Hill, he'll likely be there at 6. Personally I'd rather see Evans/Curry at 6, Hansbrough at 18. 27 & 28 could be used to move up or for vet talent (along with the Grizz's dearth of cap space and expirings)...

younggunsmn · Post #16 » by **younggunsmn** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:58 pm

GopherIt! wrote:
pumuki wrote:
dark-child wrote: If Tyreke Evans is there guy than they will make this move and let it involve the #6. If Wallace is able to get the #18 as well for the #27 than he is not the company man dufous so many believe him to be.

#2 + #27 + Conley for #6 + #18 + Love

Wow I see this deal going down on draft day, really benefits both teams, fits both rosters and both Gms have story doing deals.

Conley + Foye + Brewer + Al + Thabeet

and

Mayo + Curry/Evans/Harden + Gay + Love + Gasol

GREAT young exciting lineups !!! The deal would even make both teams bring more fans and sell more tickets !!!

MN wouldn't touch that. Love = #2 but most MN fans would rather keep Love.

GopherIt would rather keep love. Most fans on various wolves boards are in favor of love for #2 IF the pick is rubio. If the pick is thabeet opinions vary considerably.

You are right that we do not want conley, he does not fit, and the evidence in the "leaks" all point to him not being involved.

There is supposedly a "twist" to Love for #2. One possible theory is rudy gay for #6, where you could re-load with derozan. This is where as a mn fan I need a memphis perspective on if rudy's impending restricted free agency and "mesh" issues with mayo would be enough to convince the grizz to move him for an unproven guy like derozan, who as a freshman is a very similar prospect to the 19 year old rudy gay. Value-wise min would have to add something to this deal, like #18 or re-absorbing jaric's deal. If love and 6 go out, mayo or gay has to be coming back, not conley, and mayo has way too much value.

A second "twist" would be maybe moving cardinal for darko, which makes alot of sense as a short-term solution at center for us.

Lesser twists might be small caproom-related deals such as absorbing jaric, or say a small contract like craig smith's 2.7 mil or mark madsen's 2.8 mil to give us a little cap room to pull off another trade. Or a pickswap like 27 for 18 or 45+47 for 27.

Purely as players value-wise I think Love = #2, if #2 is Rubio.
Rubio's willingness to play for min or memphis and his buyout issues also detracts slightly from his value.

I think Love and Memphis fit each other perfectly. Love does not need shots to be effective, but has a very nice mid-range jumper. He is also a monster offensive rebounder, which will better suit the grizz's perimeter-oriented players better than our jefferson-centric offense.

I really do not see a better trade offer than Love straight up for 2 coming, or one that makes more sense for both teams.

Sacto is not going to throw in hawes or thompson to move up 2 spots, they also have 3, maybe 4 PG's they like to choose from. if anything they may trade down and grab holiday or flynn.

Washington at 5 is likely to trade down or out of the draft, and they have no use for thabeet or rubio and if they keep their pick they will owe 10 million in luxury tax.

Love is way better than Jordan Hill + a late first in a tradedown scenario anyway.
If you look at PF's , Love is the best option outside of blake griffin.

6,18, and 28 I don't think would do it value-wise. The grizz is one quality piece away (PF).
I think love and jefferson are the only guys that really fit what you want, and we aren't trading jefferson.

mcHale's ouster as coach and love's crybaby reaction make this scenario look likelier by the day.

bgassassin · Post #17 » by **bgassassin** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:20 am

Well like I said on the Wolves board, I have no reason to believe Rudy would be included in this kind of trade.

younggunsmn · Post #18 » by **younggunsmn** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:32 pm

Yeah, logically I can't see rudy being moved either, It is fun to dream though. There is really no other value fit for love+6 for 2+? though, because conley doesn't work from our perspective.

Listened to the johnathan givony podcast at dx of his radio interview with fox memphis, some interesting things were said. He said he would bet money that memphis doesn't draft rubio and keep him, he is that sure, and that the info filtered directly down from heisley. Said love and mayo are good friends, and love would be a great fit. Said harden or thabeet would be the pick at 2 if they keep it. But drafting harden necessitates moving conley.

Love for #2 makes alot of sense for both of our teams. Is love better than thabeet or harden for you guys though?

It_Was_Typed · Post #19 » by **It_Was_Typed** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:27 am

For the Grizzlies:

Love > Thabeet

Love > = Harden (depending on what they can get for Conley)

BrandyMcRoyFoye · Post #20 » by **BrandyMcRoyFoye** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:04 am

As a Wolves fan I would be all for moving up to #2 to draft Rubio. I would cry if we used that pick on Thabeet though.

I would much rather see the #6, #18, and #28 go than to lose Love. I can certainly see why that wouldn't interest Memphis though. A proven commodity should probably be included in a trade for the #2 pick. However, I am interested in whether there are any combinations that don't include Jefferson or Love that could get a deal done. I'm not quite sure about some of the restrictions considering last year's trade, but here's everything that you might consider an asset on Minnesota's end:

#6
#18
#28
2010 UTAH (want to say top 15 protected)
Pekovic- pf/c Euro prospect
Foye (expiring)
Brewer
Gomes
C. Smith (expiring)
Telfair
Cardinal (expiring)
M. Miller (expiring)

I realize that's a lot of quantity without much star potential. However, I am curious to know how many workable combinations there might be between these two teams.

If push comes to shove though, I would still be in favor of trading Love for #2 (Rubio)