Building a bench this offseason

[Prospect Dong]

I'm very, very happy with how the Griz have been playing this season. At the outset I said I'd be happy with anything over 35 wins, and we're on track to do that, so I'm pleased.

We are, however, riding the starters pretty hard and we've been unusually healthy. We could use a stopgap at the 2/3 - like Wafer, or maybe even WallyWorld, but ultimately I don't mind riding out this season wiht a bad bench and taking steps to improve it next offseason.

I also don't want to rely completely on the picks - both because I'd like to be able to package them to move up and because I'd like us to be able to take a flier on high risk/high reward projects rather than drafting polished players who can help right now. This team is still going to be plenty young next year.

Who should we target?

Backup 4/5:

Backup 5 is fine, in fact I think Thabeet and Gasol will probably see some more court time together next season, so I'm happy with Arthur taking the remaining minutes at the backup 4. I do think we could use a solid veteran 11th man type, ideally someone who's primarily a 4 but with the ability to play the 5 as well. And someone with at least some experience on playoff teams. He probably wouldn't see much action except in case of injuries or foul trouble for Thabeet, but could provide the kind of veteran experience and injury insurance we're lacking. If he could also give us a different look by providing 3 point range, so much the better.

Candidates: Brad Miller, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Rasho?

All pretty close to finished by next season, all might be available for the vet's min/LLE. The first two are probably better than we need for a deep-bench role, but why not give it a shot?

Backup 2/3: I can live with Sam Young filling one of these slots, and hopefully Caroll is ready to contribute a bit more, but we could really use an experienced scorer, preferably a shooter, at one or both of these slots. Ideally I'd like to blow a bit of money - full MLE perhaps- on a guy who can play minutes at the 1, 2 and 3 spots.

Candidates: I'd love to bring Mike Miller back, or maybe John Salmons or Randy Foye. There must be lots of others.

Backup pg:

Maybe Tinsley keeps shaking off the rust and ends up being able to fill this role on his own, and I'm happy with either him or Willaims as a third-stringer. But I thin a young team looking to make the playoffs with a fragile ego like Conley really needs a steady pair of hands off the bench. A couple of the combo guards above probably solve this problem as well, but if not I'd like a veteran minimum player who's a proven backup pg.

Candidates: I don't know - maybe Derek Fisher or something? I suspect Rafer Alston would cost too much. Kyle Lowry

[GrizzledGrizzFan]

Back up 4/5 - I think the Pick(s) should be used here. There are potentially a few intriguing 4's in the upcoming draft. I say go young there due to the Grizz's current depth.

Back up 2/3 - I agree with the Sam Young assessment. I'd love to see the Grizz make a run at Travis Outlaw if he's healthy/affordable. His offense off the bench is acceptable, but it's his D that would be what the doctor ordered.

Back up Point - Again, there should be draft worthy candidates (imagine just missing the playoffs ala the Bulls and scoring John Wall), although I'm not displeased with Tinsley. Derek Fisher is in LA due to a health issue with his daughter (rare retinal cancer) that all but precludes him playing in LA if he continues to play. Maybe Chris Duhon if you're not happy with Tinsley or he can't be resigned?

[Prospect Dong]

Re Outlaw - Portland fan's have been pretty clear that he's a 4 who can play some 3, and that most of his shot-creation comes against 4's, so I don't think he's what we need on the wings.

You're probably right about Fisher - Duhon would be just what I had in mind, though he'd have to continue to suck to come that cheap, and Steve Blake would be too expensive and overqualified I'd say. If we're going to spend more than the vet's min (or LLE at most) we need a guy who can backup two of our starters.

[It_Was_Typed]

Rotation for next season:
Starters: Gasol, ZBo, Rudy (?), Juice and Conley.

Bench: Haddadi, Thabeet, DA, Carroll, Old man Sam and Tinsley (?)

I'd like the front office to round out the roster with veterans and specialists this off-season. I think the team is essentially set in the front court, minus maybe one veteran big.

The perimeter will need some retooling next season. Rudy is a free agent that will command a lot of money. I suspect he'll be asking for Iguodala-like money which is about $14M a season. He doesn't deserve that type of money or trust, but that's what the market will set for him. Other than him, the Grizzlies only have Juice and Sam at the swingman spots. There's a few guys in the free agent class I like to round out the rotation. Former Grizz, Mike Miller would help a ton with his shooting and experience. I also like Travis Outlaw, Kyle Korver, Roger Mason, Kelenna Azubuike, Rasual Butler and Antoine Wright.

A back up for Conley might be needed too, depending on Tinsley. I like the veteran presence he's brought to the team, so I wouldn't mind him returning. Other guys I like are Earl Watson or Anthony Carter.

As far as the Draft is concerned, the only guys I really like are Evan Turner (Ohio State), Patrick Patterson (UK) and Greg Monroe (Georgetown). I'd be all for trading Denver and LA's picks because the team is young to being with. I just want some veterans brought in and a shooter or two.

[jman3134]

For once, I am open to trading the pick in order to receive some veteran talent in order to make an immediate push. Zach is going to be 30 pretty soon, so he won't be in this shape forever. So, if we want to form a contender, our best shot is now. First, I would like to resign Rudy Gay because of what he brings to the table. That should be our number 1 priority considering how we have gelled the second half of the season. Next, we need an upgrade at point guard and backup wings. I personally feel that Steven Hunter is alright and Darrell Arthur is still developing. Immediate help could come in the draft though in the form of a productive big man. Carroll is also still adjusting, so I would keep some of our big man depth going into next season. I would trade at least one and retool with a draft pick though. As for the backup win spots, we should keep Sam and that's about it. And I am all for trading all three of our PGs.

The reason that our team is not a contender at this point is that we do not have a superstar or a bench. This means that we can either take a superstar for minimum money in the draft and lock them up for a couple of years, or we can bait a free agent to Memphis. As hard as it is to predict a winner in the draft, I would say that we have a better shot at that than we do landing a Wade or Lebron. Thus, I feel that we should either try to trade up in the draft, or read the FA market according to interest.

In regards to the draft, I feel like there are some steals that can be had late in the second round for our bench. But, that's no matter for this thread. Since we have three picks, I feel that we should go for the homerun at each spot. With the last pick, Lance Stephenson may slip because of his questionable attitude, but I would lock him down simply because of his pure talent. Depending on who is available with the first two picks, I might trade up for an Evan Turner, or if we are really lucky John Wall. That would be like hitting the lotto, and we would probably be a contender in two years for sure. (just by that last pickup) Other acceptable picks imo would be Ed Davis or Hassan Whiteside (who I am really high on) by trade most likely. DX has us picking up Gordon Hayward, which is not a bad idea in order to grab a shooter off the bench.

Other pickups can be done for a low price either by selecting overseas vets, overseas young players, or some quality improved D League guys. First, let me say that Desmon Farmer should be in the league right now. He has a questionable reputation, but the talent is certainly there. He probably could provide some scoring off the bench right now if we were to pick him up. Then there's other serviceable guys like Curtis Stinson, Reggie Williams, Mustafa Shakur etc. Such guys will play in the league in the future, it's just a matter of who puts one in the right situation. Another pickup I would like to see is TJ Cummings from the D League.

Wings overseas that could be good include David Hawkins, Romain Sato, Ricky Paulding, Justin Cage, Pete Mickeal, Qyntel Woods, or James "Flight" White. We may want to take a look at some overseas guys we could sign for the vet min at the point guard slot and scrap Marcus Williams and Tinsley. Candidates include Aaron Miles, Omar Cook, Terrell McIntyre, or Patrick Beverley. Miles and Cook are both floor generals who understand the game and could help our team despite earning limited minutes. I would prefer Cook because he has the ability to score moreso than Miles. McIntyre has been one of the best PGs in Europe for a while and he certainly would be a key addition. Finally, Beverley has been playing good basketball on one of the top teams in Europe. His defensive presence should make him an interesting prospect down the line.

[Prospect Dong]

I'm happy to take a flier on some relative unknowns from D-League/Euroleague, or longshot draft prospects for the 12th through 15th man slots, but I don't want to rely on those kinds of guys to be primary backups again next season. I think a team with a solid veteran rotation can incorporate young, borderline NBA players much more effectively than a young, thin team like the grizzlies. I think it's time to go with the 35 year old vet who's had experience on winning teams and who can provide a stabilising influence in the locker room and perhaps a couple of turn-back-the-clock games in someone goes down at a crucial moment.

Of it_was_typed's list of possible FA swingmen I like Kyle Korver, Roger Mason, Kelenna Azubuike and Rasual Butler - though I fear Buike will be out of our price range if GS fans are to be believed. Anthony Morrow is another (smaller) shooter who is worth a look but probably fits in the same category. Maybe Nate Robinson? Though it sounds like he doesn't want to be here. Or Sergio Rodrigez?

As far as moving up the draft, unless Melo stays out a long time our combination of picks (13, 22 and 30 as things stand) look a lot like what Houston used to move up to #7 to take Griffin. That didn't exactly work out, and these things are very draft specific, but that's exactly the sort of move I'd consider. OR bundling one or more of the picks with Jaric's expiring (next season) for another proven player.

[Downtown]

As far as the draft goes there are some interesting names that could be looked at for Memphis.

Al-Farouq Aminu as insurance if the Grizzlies don't re-sign Gay(or use him in a sign and trade for a pointguard such as Devin Harris).

Patrick Patterson as the possible heir to Zach Randolph if the Grizzlies don't want to re-sign him(although they should try to get Randolph re-signed at a more reasonable price after next season).

With their lower picks there's pointguards such Armon Johnson. A combo power forward/center such as Charles Garcia. A swingman, combo guard/forward such as Paul George. Lot's of possibilities.

But of course we're talking about a veteran or two instead of rookies. There's plenty around the league but the good bench/role players that are reasonably priced are quite valueable. So unless it's a team in a certain situation that needs to move a player for whatever reason getting the perfect veteran fit is tough.

I agree that maybe they will have to look at trading down in the draft if they want to add that solid depth. As for right now I don't see them changing the good chemistry they have found so I don't expect anything big by this season's trade deadline.

[It_Was_Typed]

I'd like the Grizz to package Steven Hunter (or Marcus Williams?) and one of the later draft picks for some help before the trade deadline.

I'm sure there will be a team that wants to clear some cap space.

[jman3134]

My idea would not be to rely on these guys as the primary backups. I listed a lot of names because there are a lot of options imo. I was thinking that we sign some relatively proven guys and bring in these relatively unknown/inexperienced NBA players and see how they fit in with the team dynamic. If they can outplay some "veteran" backups, why not fit them into the rotation? I'm just going on the assumption that there are better players out there who are just not in the right situation currently who could come in and provide immediate, inexpensive help.

The problem with our team is that we should be evaluated as a veteran team because we are looking to keep our current chemistry while upgrading certain parts. That means Zach Randolph and Rudy Gay get fat contracts this summer just so we can stay on our current track. This leaves room for very few "proven" veterans. I mean we could sign some extremely old players as lockerroom guys, but that will not wholly effect our performance on the floor because we probably would not give them much PT.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will a contender Grizzlies team. When you look at the top teams in the league, you see that they were built off of unknown players. Rajon Rondo wasn't a lottery pick. Glen Davis and Leon Powe were both late second rounders. Shannon Brown was in the D League for a while and now is a solid rotation player. Anthony Parker spent most of his career overseas, and the NBA missed out on his prime.

The best players are not always playing in the NBA. Some are on the bench because of politics. Others have questionable attitudes and are stuck in the D League. And some were passed on early and have developed themselves into NBA-caliber rotation players. The goal is to mix the known with the unknown in order to hedge your bets. That means signing Rasual Butler in the offseason for decent money, while also picking up Desmon Farmer and seeing how they fair in practice. This is what contenders do, and we should operate like one. Where was Roger Mason Jr. at the beginning of his career? Fringe NBA. Suddenly San Antonio gives the guy a shot and now he is considered a proven veteran. My point is that these lines are very much blurred and talent evaluation is the key to succeeding in the league.

In regards to the draft, I would not want Aminu on Memphis because he is not a pure SF like Gay. His handle is no where near there yet. Charles Garcia is a nice option for the late 1st, even though he is raw and turnover prone at this point. If he has the willingness to work, he could be a steal though. George has a lot of upside- I will give you that.

As for Greg Monroe: he should succeed at the NBA level, but I do wonder whether or not he will fit in with out offense.

[jman3134]

I'd like the Grizz to package Steven Hunter (or Marcus Williams?) and one of the later draft picks for some help before the trade deadline.

I'm sure there will be a team that wants to clear some cap space.

Do you think that we should go full steam towards a playoff birth this season by changing our roster soon? While this would be nice and give us some experience, I do not know how I feel about facing the Lakers in the first round and likely getting eliminated because we have no bench. I'm not saying give up on a playoff appearance. I just feel that we should probably make some moves in the offseason rather than making trades so early. We could very well make the playoffs this year with our current roster in place. But, is one bench player the difference between a first round playoff victory and an elimination this season? I don't see it.

[It_Was_Typed]

I think Monroe would be fine in the offense. He's a very good passer, has a decent post game and can step out to shoot a mid-range jumper. I have some concerns with his lack of explosion and a go to move, but he's a good prospect. Reminds me a bit of Pau actually.

[It_Was_Typed]

I'd like the Grizz to package Steven Hunter (or Marcus Williams?) and one of the later draft picks for some help before the trade deadline.

I'm sure there will be a team that wants to clear some cap space.

Do you think that we should go full steam towards a playoff birth this season by changing our roster soon? While this would be nice and give us some experience, I do not know how I feel about facing the Lakers in the first round and likely getting eliminated because we have no bench. I'm not saying give up on a playoff appearance. I just feel that we should probably make some moves in the offseason rather than making trades so early. We could very well make the playoffs this year with our current roster in place. But, is one bench player the difference between a first round playoff victory and an elimination this season? I don't see it.

I've come to terms that the Grizz have an extremely slim chance of making the playoffs, but if there's a chance then why not? I don't want the team to add a cap killer or anything, but if it's for a player that contract ends by 2011 (like John Salmons) I say go for it. Steven Hunter won't be a member of this team next season and to be quite frank, late first round picks tend to be crapshoots. Of course there are steals every once in awhile, but I guess that's why they should deal one of the picks, not both.

That experience the kids will gain in the post season (let alone the tight race for the last seed) would be valuable going forward.

[jman3134]

It's a good point, but yeah, I was under the assumption that a solid veteran would come at the expense of our cap. A guy like Nate could have come in because of his documented problems with the Knicks coaching staff, but he decided not to. Other than that, I was assuming we're paying top dollar. (although Salmons would be nice)

[daddyfivestar]

LA is not keeping Farmar under his rookie option, so he would be a great backup / somebody to push Conley. He's probably affordable for the LLE (2m) or portion of the MLE (3 ?). LA may hope to re-up him for less (making 1.95) so those $$, plus greater opportunity for playing time, would probably get it done.

[It_Was_Typed]

I hate that fool Ears.

He needs to go away from LA and definitely not Memphis. Doesn't play any defense and chucks horrible shots.

[joe.linnen]

Grizzles
SF:Gay/Carroll
PF:Randolph/Arthur
C:Gasol/Thabeet/Haddidi
SG:Mayo/Young
PG:Conley/Williams

I want Haddidi to more burn he was putting up like 16ppg and 16rpg with his national team. I really don't know to anything about Carroll, Young, or Arthur but I say go after player Brad Miller, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Rasho Nesterovic, Randy Foye, Mike Miller, or John Salmons

Back up Power Forwards
Brad Miller- I think he would command the whole MLE
Ben Wallace- can be had for cheap
Joe Smith-can be had for cheap


Back up Small Forwards
Mike Miller-already played in Memphis, but might command the ful MLE


Back up Guards
John Salmons-great off the bench, but might command the whole MLE
Randy Foye-can play either guard spot and can be had for cheap too

I say got after Joe Smith or Ben Wallace, John Salmons, and Randy Foye

Grizzles
SF:Gay/Salmons/Carroll
PF:Randolph/Smith/Arthur
C:Gasol/Thabeet/Haddidi
SG:Mayo/Foye/Young
PG:Conley/Williams

this team would be able to stay about 500 and will compete for the last 3 spots in the playoffs

[It_Was_Typed]

Damn, there's a story on wiretap that the Grizz were after Outlaw before he got injured.

Wouldn't mind swapping Steven Hunter for him, even if he won't be back until March.

[vanjulio]

Damn, there's a story on wiretap that the Grizz were after Outlaw before he got injured.

Wouldn't mind swapping Steven Hunter for him, even if he won't be back until March.

Steven Hunter for Outlaw? They'd have to be very desperate for luxury tax as before they would not trade Conley for Outlaw last season.

[jman3134]

That'll be the day.^

We would definitely have to include more than that.

[It_Was_Typed]

Throw in one of those first rounders.