Tournament of Champions 2020 (Post-Merger) - Discussion Thread

[Zion Wembanyama]

Go time

[Zion Wembanyama]

Go time

[Kiwifan]

Point Guard options were getting pretty thin, haven’t had much of a chance to research today. Kidd fits the bill as an experienced playmaker whom can run my offence, play defence and hit an open 3. Got a few FG to make a splash but not sure that there will be many options out there.

[wackbone]

Point Guard options were getting pretty thin, haven’t had much of a chance to research today. Kidd fits the bill as an experienced playmaker whom can run my offence, play defence and hit an open 3. Got a few FG to make a splash but not sure that there will be many options out there.

I think you made the right choice. There is a drop off between 2011 Kidd and most other available PG imo. There are 1-2 guys left I would prefer, but Kidd is definitely solid.

[Kiwifan]

Point Guard options were getting pretty thin, haven’t had much of a chance to research today. Kidd fits the bill as an experienced playmaker whom can run my offence, play defence and hit an open 3. Got a few FG to make a splash but not sure that there will be many options out there.

I think you made the right choice. There is a drop off between 2011 Kidd and most other available PG imo. There are 1-2 guys left I would prefer, but Kidd is definitely solid.

I wanted Billups, Lowry or Parker last round but just missed out. Perhaps should have taken Thomas instead of Bowen but I was a little worried about spacing.

[JimmyPlopper]

In this draft and in others, I am curious on a couple things:
1) Are we assuming that the 88 FGA allowance is going to be distributed among the players selected? Or can the team redistribute as needed after meeting the FGA restriction?
2) Are we assuming that percentages for shooting would broadly hold for the season selected? Or is it reasonable enough to assume players at the time who had a nice shot but didn't shoot many threes, would probably adapt well to the current era with high volume of 3PA?

[Kiwifan]

In this draft and in others, I am curious on a couple things:
1) Are we assuming that the 88 FGA allowance is going to be distributed among the players selected? Or can the team redistribute as needed after meeting the FGA restriction?
2) Are we assuming that percentages for shooting would broadly hold for the season selected? Or is it reasonable enough to assume players at the time who had a nice shot but didn't shoot many threes, would probably adapt well to the current era with high volume of 3PA?

For point two I always assume that a good shooter would shoot more threes at a similar clip. E.g there is no doubt in my mind that a player like Bird would maintain a similar percentage on more attempts if he were to play today .

[wackbone]

In this draft and in others, I am curious on a couple things:
1) Are we assuming that the 88 FGA allowance is going to be distributed among the players selected? Or can the team redistribute as needed after meeting the FGA restriction?
2) Are we assuming that percentages for shooting would broadly hold for the season selected? Or is it reasonable enough to assume players at the time who had a nice shot but didn't shoot many threes, would probably adapt well to the current era with high volume of 3PA?

1. I have never put toooooo much stock into FGA as a metric of the team, but generally I would say I take their IRL FGA amount and compare it to others on the team moreso than anything. Like a guy who averages 18 FGA is likely to take more shots than a guy averaging 14 FGA, potentially making him the number 1 option on offense. But most of the time I don't look too much into it. This is where the writeup comes into play, really. Tells the voter what the offensive gameplan is if it is unclear.

2. Yes percentages generally hold, but with the older players people make their own opinions on how that player would shoot in today's game. For example, Jerry West is widely considered to space the floor, even though he didn't have a 3 point line.

This is interesting though in the case of someone like Draymond Green, who has one outlier season of 3 point shooting. Some voters take his collective 3 point shooting prowess and judge him that way, whereas others will take that individual season as what he would shoot in our setting (if that is indeed the season chosen.)

Generally guys like Draymond and Marcus Smart, among many others, are considered streaky moreso than their percentages will tell you.

[wackbone]

In this draft and in others, I am curious on a couple things:
1) Are we assuming that the 88 FGA allowance is going to be distributed among the players selected? Or can the team redistribute as needed after meeting the FGA restriction?
2) Are we assuming that percentages for shooting would broadly hold for the season selected? Or is it reasonable enough to assume players at the time who had a nice shot but didn't shoot many threes, would probably adapt well to the current era with high volume of 3PA?

For point two I always assume that a good shooter would shoot more threes at a similar clip. E.g there is no doubt in my mind that a player like Bird would maintain a similar percentage on more attempts if he were to play today .

Yeah really depends on the player

[wackbone]

There is a PF I really want and think he would fit like an absolute glove, but I am not sure if he will make it back to me or not.

[Jordan Syndrome]

This is interesting though in the case of someone like Draymond Green, who has one outlier season of 3 point shooting. Some voters take his collective 3 point shooting prowess and judge him that way, whereas others will take that individual season as what he would shoot in our setting (if that is indeed the season chosen.)

Generally guys like Draymond and Marcus Smart, among many others, are considered streaky moreso than their percentages will tell you.

Draymond had one good year shooting the 3, 2016, and that season is unavailable. Every other season he has been below average to terrible at shooting the 3.

[JimmyPlopper]

In this draft and in others, I am curious on a couple things:
1) Are we assuming that the 88 FGA allowance is going to be distributed among the players selected? Or can the team redistribute as needed after meeting the FGA restriction?
2) Are we assuming that percentages for shooting would broadly hold for the season selected? Or is it reasonable enough to assume players at the time who had a nice shot but didn't shoot many threes, would probably adapt well to the current era with high volume of 3PA?

1. I have never put toooooo much stock into FGA as a metric of the team, but generally I would say I take their IRL FGA amount and compare it to others on the team moreso than anything. Like a guy who averages 18 FGA is likely to take more shots than a guy averaging 14 FGA, potentially making him the number 1 option on offense. But most of the time I don't look too much into it. This is where the writeup comes into play, really. Tells the voter what the offensive gameplan is if it is unclear.

2. Yes percentages generally hold, but with the older players people make their own opinions on how that player would shoot in today's game. For example, Jerry West is widely considered to space the floor, even though he didn't have a 3 point line.

This is interesting though in the case of someone like Draymond Green, who has one outlier season of 3 point shooting. Some voters take his collective 3 point shooting prowess and judge him that way, whereas others will take that individual season as what he would shoot in our setting (if that is indeed the season chosen.)

Generally guys like Draymond and Marcus Smart, among many others, are considered streaky moreso than their percentages will tell you.

Thanks to you and Kiwi both for your responses.

The second point regarding someone like Draymond is another great question I have also had. I think people in their head will not give the player credit for having one great season because their opinion of the player is so heavily influenced by their entire body of work.

[JimmyPlopper]

This is interesting though in the case of someone like Draymond Green, who has one outlier season of 3 point shooting. Some voters take his collective 3 point shooting prowess and judge him that way, whereas others will take that individual season as what he would shoot in our setting (if that is indeed the season chosen.)

Generally guys like Draymond and Marcus Smart, among many others, are considered streaky moreso than their percentages will tell you.

Draymond had one good year shooting the 3, 2016, and that season is unavailable. Every other season he has been below average to terrible at shooting the 3.

Just as a hypothetical though, because there are other examples like that. Are we putting blinders on and trying to only think about the season selected?

[Jordan Syndrome]

This is interesting though in the case of someone like Draymond Green, who has one outlier season of 3 point shooting. Some voters take his collective 3 point shooting prowess and judge him that way, whereas others will take that individual season as what he would shoot in our setting (if that is indeed the season chosen.)

Generally guys like Draymond and Marcus Smart, among many others, are considered streaky moreso than their percentages will tell you.

Draymond had one good year shooting the 3, 2016, and that season is unavailable. Every other season he has been below average to terrible at shooting the 3.

Just as a hypothetical though, because there are other examples like that. Are we putting blinders on and trying to only think about the season selected?

Depends on the context to the situation. Can you give more details?

[JimmyPlopper]

Draymond had one good year shooting the 3, 2016, and that season is unavailable. Every other season he has been below average to terrible at shooting the 3.

Just as a hypothetical though, because there are other examples like that. Are we putting blinders on and trying to only think about the season selected?

Depends on the context to the situation. Can you give more details?

If 2016 was available for Draymond for instance: are we assuming he hits threes actually at that rate?

[LA Bird]

Point Guard options were getting pretty thin, haven’t had much of a chance to research today. Kidd fits the bill as an experienced playmaker whom can run my offence, play defence and hit an open 3. Got a few FG to make a splash but not sure that there will be many options out there.

I think you made the right choice. There is a drop off between 2011 Kidd and most other available PG imo. There are 1-2 guys left I would prefer, but Kidd is definitely solid.

2011 Kidd is by far the best FGA value and has the 3pt shot but there are 2 better point guards still available IMO. I think a scoring point guard might have been more valuable for Kiwifan's team since he has a lot of FGA to spare and his scoring at the moment is relatively weak compared to his insane defense.

[Jordan Syndrome]

Just as a hypothetical though, because there are other examples like that. Are we putting blinders on and trying to only think about the season selected?

Depends on the context to the situation. Can you give more details?

If 2016 was available for Draymond for instance: are we assuming he hits threes actually at that rate?

Draymond attempted 258 3's in the regular season and 104 in the post-season. He was streaky with 10/23 post-season games hitting 0 3's (0/29 in those 10 games from deep).

I assume over the course of a series he will hit 3's at that clip.

[Kiwifan]

Point Guard options were getting pretty thin, haven’t had much of a chance to research today. Kidd fits the bill as an experienced playmaker whom can run my offence, play defence and hit an open 3. Got a few FG to make a splash but not sure that there will be many options out there.

I think you made the right choice. There is a drop off between 2011 Kidd and most other available PG imo. There are 1-2 guys left I would prefer, but Kidd is definitely solid.

2011 Kidd is by far the best FGA value and has the 3pt shot but there are 2 better point guards still available IMO. I think a scoring point guard might have been more valuable for Kiwifan's team since he has a lot of FGA to spare and his scoring at the moment is relatively weak compared to his insane defense.

After some more research I would tend to agree , definitely need more scoring, absolutely open to PMs if anyone wants to weigh in on who that scoring should come from.

[Fadeaway_J]

Anybody going to be around for a while who can take my list?

[Zion Wembanyama]

Anybody going to be around for a while who can take my list?

Yep.