1975; That was the year that wasn

[CellarDoor]

Pen, sorry, took your statement in your previous post to mean "post it here"

[Snakebites]

When is this due?

I'm pretty swamped for the next week or so....

[penbeast0]

I will try to keep the Standings updated in the beginning of the other thread. There was a two week window from the day we finished writeups to post your calls on the matches. So, they are due midnight EST on Sunday, July 11 --each matchup posted by then (must have some reasoning with each matchup!) counts as a win as well as the wins from other players.

THIS IS A LOT OF MATCHES TO JUDGE; please try to get some of them done early instead of making the whole thing into a marathon. I am doing them in 7 series groups when I have free time, finished the second group today.

Regular Season Standings

Kentucky Colonels 14-0 (each matchup posted by 7-11 counts as a win)
Boston Celtics 3-1
Milwaukee Bucks 3-1
New York Knicks 3-1

Denver Nuggets 2-2
Golden State Warriors 2-2
Philadephia 1-3
New York Nets 0-4

[CellarDoor]

Just want to make a quick note on the McGinnis turnovers thing...here's some notably high turnover players in the top 50 all time (raw TOs)

Artis Gilmore
Bob McAdoo
Allen Iverson
Isaiah Thomas
Jason Kidd
Bernard King
Kevin Johnson
Dwayne Wade
Dwight Howard
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal

Are McGinnis' turnovers an issue? Absolutely, but take a look at that list. His 6 assists put him in 04/05 Dwayne Wade territory (this is the version that would've made the finals minus rib injuries), above Bernard King and all the Cs. You also need to consider minutes played. Dwight's season is nowhere near the 40.5mpg, neither is Dwade's. I don't have time to check the others, but I'd wager he's top 2 or 3 in MPG. Now consider he's not going to be asked to do as much on this team, what you're likely to get is Sacto C-Webb on steroids where he can operate under a lot less pressure and make more good plays.

[Miller4ever]

Very true, but the same can be said about all players in these contests that are the #1 options and then become part of an all-star roster. Some handle it better than others.

I look more at assist/turnover ratio when I'm trying to gauge passing efficiency purely based on numbers. McGinnis is barely over 1.

Also, McGinnis is basically PF. Giving him minutes at C is acceptable, but it's like putting C-Webb or a taller Charles Barkley at C.

[CellarDoor]

Very true, but the same can be said about all players in these contests that are the #1 options and then become part of an all-star roster. Some handle it better than others.

I look more at assist/turnover ratio when I'm trying to gauge passing efficiency purely based on numbers. McGinnis is barely over 1.

Also, McGinnis is basically PF. Giving him minutes at C is acceptable, but it's like putting C-Webb or a taller Charles Barkley at C.

I didn't put him at C. At least not intentionally. Let me check this.

It should read Thurmond has all back-up minutes at C (and PF). I've actually got McGinnis at SF for a few minutes a game if I'm recalling correctly.

edit: and "barely" over 1 isn't really fair. He's nearly at 1.2. Wade got less than half an assist more turnover in 05 with Shaq and other pieces (shooters) around him. Like I said, it's not his strong point, but it's not going to be so debilitating in my opinion.

edit #2: here's my listed rotation--
Randy Smith(32)/Jim Price(32)
Jerry Sloan(32)/Bob Dandrige/Jim Price
Bob Dandridge(38)/George McGinnis
George McGinnis(40)/Nate Thurmond(26)
Kareem Abdul Jabbar(40)/Nate Thurmond
Expect Thurmond to spend 18 minutes at PF, so McGinnis gets 10 at SF.

[CellarDoor]

Pen, I'm slated at 3-1 on your standings in the OP of the other thread...I'm struggling to figure out how I'm not 2-0. Am I missing a bunch of judgments somewhere?

[penbeast0]

In each 7 series set that I did, you played two series. The first time you were matched up against the Sixers and the Knicks, the second time against Golden State and Denver. A total of 4 matchups.

[CellarDoor]

I have a feeling I'm going to look like an idiot, but can you please link me directly to the post with your second 7 judgments? I'm seeing Philly/NY, but not GS/DEN...anywhere.

[Snakebites]

Yeah, I can't find it either.

[CellarDoor]

Yeah, I can't find it either.

Thank God. I thought I was going senile at 25.

[penbeast0]

I'm the elder, I get to go senile first. I wrote out a whole second set in a Word document and thought I had copied it over but apparently I hadn't. Didn't save it eiher so will redo it this weekend. Luck.

[CellarDoor]

I'm the elder, I get to go senile first. I wrote out a whole second set in a Word document and thought I had copied it over but apparently I hadn't. Didn't save it eiher so will redo it this weekend. Luck.

Ouch..

[Miller4ever]

Yay, so the fact that I'm 0-4 is not unfounded.

[penbeast0]

There . . . fixed it.

How do y'all feel we should treat players who made the 50 game mark but sat out a lot of games (20 or so)? On one hand, the injury might just have been a freakish thing and we have a game limit already; on the other, it might be chronic or the result of a player not pushing it to get back to his team.

I think it's legit to penalize players for that but each person has to judge it themselves. I will say that I believe if you have players who missed 20 games, you need to lengthen your rotation a bit to give them more rest.

[Snakebites]

I think it must be taken into account.

Teams benefited in this game from lower win totals resulting in part to injuries incurred by players, as win totals determined draft order. It seems fair to penalize for those same injuries for that reason.

[penbeast0]

I sort of try to do each one individually without thinking of what has gone before or after and working from the framework I set up. Interestingly (to me anyway), after a weak opening, Denver went on a win streak just before the break as the Celtics stumbled. After the All-Star game, the Nets finally hit a hot streak (plus they are the only other team with a home game) and Milwaukee stumbled. Meanwhile, the Knicks continue to roll.

I will say, I was surprised by some of the team choices. I thought Buffalo would have been picked to get the NBA MVP and solid players like Smith, McMillan, and Heard -- Philly surprised me, especially when Turk didn't even start Cunningham, their star (though I can see using the efficient jump shooter over the inefficient do it all guy). I also really thought Washington, the only team with two great big men, would go and Denver wouldn't despite (because?) of the best record in the game due to sheer talent; leaving Bobby Jones as one of the prime candidates for a top pick. I also thought Detroit would go as I believed Warspite would join us and they had a great pair in Lanier and Bing. I guess I look first at whether the teams had competitive bigs since I figured that for the position of scarcity.

[Snakebites]

^I came very close to selecting Detroit for the reason of starting with the competitive big. I also considered Chicago so I could add scorers to that defensive juggernaught. Either would have granted me the same pick I got with NY (though I didn't know that would be true of Chicago at the time, I thought they might wind up with a lower pick in the end).

I ultimately went with the Knicks for three reasons:

1) Frazier is the most respected player that was available to me among unselected teams, and the best player at his position (or either guard position) in the selected year.

2) I felt at least one competitive big would be available at my selection.

3) The notion of a possible Kareem/Frazier pairing.

4) With Frazier, Earl, and Red in position I would have a ready made winning culture and clear team concept with the benefit of a high pick to pad high end talent.

Given I ended up getting Lanier, taking the Knicks over the Pistons was certainly a good call.

[penbeast0]

It's working so far Snake, I have you with the best road record in the league. Of course, if you don't start posting your regular season writeups, your home record will kill you but that's true of just about everyone at the moment. LAST DAY IS SUNDAY, 7-11, HALF YOUR RECORD COMES FROM YOUR OWN POSTINGS.

[penbeast0]

Just for fun, I ran an exhibition season in whatifsports.com for the 8 teams. All the starters are 75 numbers, but for many of the reserves had to use other seasons to get under the salary cap – tried to make it as similar as possible within those restrictions. Please note also that only 6 teams can be in an exhibition league so the last two teams to draft, Boston and Denver, were in a different exhibition league with non-1975 opponents.

That said, here were the final standings and each teams statistics:


Kentucky 8-2 0.800 - - - kit5
Milwaukee 7-3 0.700 1 - - kit2
NY Knicks 6-4 0.600 2 - - kit3
Golden State 5-5 0.500 3 - - kit4
Denver 3-7 0.300 5 - - kit8
Boston 3-7 0.300 5 - - kit7
NY Nets 3-7 0.300 5 - - kit6
Philadelphia 1-9 0.100 7 - - kit1


G GS Min Pts Fg% 3pt% Ft% Oreb Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF
Kentucky
74-75 Artis Gilmore
10 10 37.9 24.6 58.8 0 60.0 4.2 13.4 2.8 3.6 0.8 2.5 2.9
74-75 Wes Unseld
10 10 37.6 8.3 49.3 21.4 76.9 4.3 15.3 5.1 1.8 1.5 1.0 1.7
74-75 Louie Dampier
10 10 35.9 19.0 53.6 33.3 84.1 0.4 2.3 8.0 2.0 1.0 0.4 1.7
74-75 Ron Boone
10 10 35.7 25.7 52.2 0.0 85.4 2.1 5.1 5.9 3.9 2.4 0.3 3.0
74-75 Wil Jones
10 10 31.3 16.0 50.8 0 70.3 2.6 7.7 3.3 2.9 1.2 0.9 3.3
83-84 Dan Issel
10 0 17.2 12.4 54.3 0.0 91.7 1.1 4.1 1.1 1.2 0.4 0.5 0.8
76-77 Dick Van Arsdale
10 0 11.9 5.9 52.2 57.1 70.0 0.3 1.3 0.9 0.5 0.0 0.3 0.7
77-78 Ted McClain
10 0 10.5 2.2 40.0 37.5 50.0 0.1 0.4 2.1 0.7 0.3 0.2 0.8
71-72 Marv Roberts
10 0 9.6 5.0 37.7 0.0 76.9 0.9 3.1 0.4 0.6 0.4 0.4 1.0
68-69 Bob Love
10 0 6.6 3.5 42.4 75.0 57.1 0.3 1.2 0.1 0.2 0.0 0.2 1.0
77-78 Bird Averitt
7 0 3.9 0.4 8.3 0.0 50.0 0.0 0.3 1.0 0.3 0.1 0.0 0.4
72-73 Ron Thomas
6 0 4.5 1.2 60.0 0.0 50.0 1.2 2.2 0.2 0.2 0.0 0.0 1.5
TOTALS 10 123.6 51.6 29.6 76.3 17.0 55.4 30.5 17.7 8.1 6.7 18.1
OPPONENTS 10 119.5 49.1 40.0 79.7 13.9 48.6 28.5 16.9 9.7 6.8 18.3

MIilwaukee
74-75 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
10 10 36.7 22.7 50.8 33.3 79.1 3.2 11.2 3.5 2.2 1.0 2.5 1.8
74-75 Bob Dandridge
10 10 36.4 20.7 50.6 33.3 74.2 1.2 5.6 3.0 1.5 0.9 0.5 3.6
74-75 George McGinnis
10 10 35.1 23.2 50.5 44.4 64.3 2.9 11.0 5.7 2.8 1.5 0.9 2.6
74-75 Randy Smith
10 10 35.0 14.3 50.4 33.3 77.3 0.8 3.5 8.1 2.0 2.0 0.0 3.6
74-75 Jerry Sloan
10 10 33.7 13.8 49.0 44.0 81.8 2.5 6.8 2.6 1.4 1.7 0.3 2.8
74-75 Jim Price
10 0 21.7 9.3 43.2 31.6 85.0 0.7 2.4 2.9 1.8 1.5 0.0 1.7
71-72 Cornell Warner
10 0 17.1 5.2 37.3 33.3 68.4 1.2 4.3 1.1 0.4 0.3 0.9 1.9
76-77 Nate Thurmond
10 0 12.2 2.5 45.8 0 100.0 2.2 6.1 1.3 0.9 0.1 1.2 1.0
75-76 Mickey Davis
8 0 4.6 2.1 40.0 0.0 83.3 0.5 0.9 0.5 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.0
76-77 Gary Brokaw
7 0 4.3 3.1 75.0 100.0 66.7 0.1 0.7 0.9 0.0 0.1 0.0 0.3
75-76 Jon McGlocklin
6 0 4.5 1.8 22.2 0.0 100.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 0.2 0.3 0.0 0.5
77-78 Kevin Restani
6 0 4.5 0.8 50.0 0 100.0 0.5 1.2 0.5 0.2 0.2 0.0 0.2
TOTALS 10 117.2 48.6 36.9 75.4 15.5 52.8 30.1 13.3 9.5 6.4 19.6
OPPONENTS 10 107.4 47.9 38.5 73.0 12.7 50.0 25.9 17.5 7.2 6.1 19.2


NY Knicks
74-75 Bob Lanier
10 10 37.6 20.4 51.5 33.3 81.0 3.1 12.9 5.9 3.2 0.6 2.9 3.0
74-75 Walt Frazier
10 10 36.6 20.4 49.0 50.0 88.9 1.3 6.3 5.9 3.5 2.5 0.2 2.2
74-75 Chet Walker
10 10 31.8 16.3 49.2 46.7 76.5 1.6 6.3 3.5 1.9 0.6 0.0 1.5
74-75 Earl Monroe
10 10 31.6 18.7 48.0 23.1 93.3 0.7 3.3 3.8 1.9 1.0 0.3 1.5
74-75 Maurice Lucas
10 10 30.7 12.1 55.0 100.0 71.4 2.5 10.8 3.5 2.1 1.3 0.8 2.7
74-75 Phil Chenier
10 0 23.7 14.6 53.0 33.3 76.9 0.2 1.5 2.9 1.5 1.2 1.0 1.3
73-74 Phil Jackson
10 0 21.8 9.7 56.2 25.0 93.3 1.3 4.9 1.7 1.2 0.6 1.2 2.8
76-77 Bill Bradley
10 0 13.3 4.0 45.9 40.0 100.0 0.7 2.2 2.3 1.0 0.3 0.2 1.5
73-74 Hawthorne Wingo
10 0 6.0 3.1 50.0 0.0 64.3 1.5 3.1 0.2 0.4 0.0 0.1 0.6
76-77 Mel Davis
9 0 3.2 1.4 50.0 0 71.4 0.4 1.2 0.3 0.2 0.0 0.0 0.0
72-73 John Gianelli
7 0 3.6 1.1 37.5 0.0 100.0 0.6 0.9 0.0 0.1 0.1 0.0 0.3
74-75 Dennis Bell
7 0 2.9 1.0 27.3 0.0 25.0 0.3 0.7 0.1 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.1
TOTALS 10 122.1 50.5 37.6 82.1 13.9 53.5 30.1 17.0 8.2 6.7 17.4
OPPONENTS 10 120.1 49.3 33.3 77.5 14.3 50.6 28.8 14.8 8.4 7.2 18.6

Golden State
74-75 Rick Barry
10 10 39.7 31.1 51.6 42.1 95.6 1.0 4.9 6.8 3.5 2.0 0.5 2.9
74-75 Elvin Hayes
10 10 39.4 20.8 48.8 42.9 85.7 2.0 9.4 2.5 2.6 1.7 2.5 2.4
74-75 Norm Van Lier
10 10 33.3 15.2 44.7 43.8 87.1 1.4 4.6 6.6 2.2 1.8 0.2 2.2
74-75 Mike Riordan
10 10 29.8 14.4 46.9 33.3 90.9 1.1 3.2 2.5 1.2 1.2 0.0 2.6
74-75 Elmore Smith
10 10 28.2 8.4 51.4 0 45.5 2.4 9.8 1.4 1.9 1.3 3.1 2.6
74-75 Jamaal Wilkes
10 0 27.4 11.8 44.0 15.4 70.0 2.1 7.4 2.0 2.0 1.3 0.2 1.2
78-79 Clifford Ray
10 0 19.6 6.4 57.1 0.0 50.0 1.3 6.4 1.4 1.4 0.5 0.7 1.6
76-77 Butch Beard
10 0 14.0 5.2 54.3 28.6 0 1.0 2.2 1.9 0.7 0.5 0.2 2.1
77-78 Derrek Dickey
9 0 3.2 1.7 40.0 0 87.5 0.1 0.3 0.2 0.1 0.0 0.0 0.1
85-86 George T. Johnson
7 0 3.7 0.3 25.0 0 0 0.3 1.0 0.3 0.3 0.0 0.4 0.1
75-76 Jeff Mullins
6 0 3.2 1.0 33.3 66.7 0 0.0 0.0 0.2 0.2 0.0 0.0 0.0
77-78 Charles Johnson
7 0 2.6 0.9 33.3 0.0 50.0 0.4 0.6 0.3 0.1 0.0 0.0 0.1
TOTALS 10 116.2 48.6 36.1 79.5 12.9 49.3 25.8 16.0 10.3 7.7 17.9
OPPONENTS 10 117.0 49.8 25.7 79.0 15.0 55.0 28.7 18.8 8.6 6.3 17.0

Denver
74-75 Sam Lacey
10 10 39.5 10.7 40.9 33.3 92.3 1.4 13.5 6.5 2.4 1.4 1.9 3.0
74-75 Marvin Barnes
10 10 36.7 19.7 49.4 0 70.5 3.8 14.4 3.0 4.8 1.3 1.7 3.3
74-75 Ralph Simpson
10 10 36.4 21.9 53.0 33.3 68.4 1.1 3.4 5.6 5.1 2.2 0.5 3.0
74-75 Bobby Jones
10 10 36.2 15.4 65.4 0 70.0 2.3 8.2 4.3 2.2 2.0 2.3 2.1
74-75 Mack Calvin
10 10 34.2 15.7 50.4 0.0 90.6 0.2 1.9 7.8 2.8 2.6 0.1 1.6
74-75 Billy Knight
10 0 28.0 14.3 47.8 33.3 91.9 2.4 5.6 2.2 2.1 0.7 0.1 2.2
72-73 Dave Twardzik
10 0 15.8 5.0 48.8 0.0 66.7 0.3 1.0 1.4 1.3 0.6 0.2 2.1
75-76 Mike Green
10 0 15.1 7.3 48.5 50.0 88.9 1.4 4.4 0.5 0.7 0.4 1.0 1.2
74-75 Pat McFarland
6 0 4.2 2.3 38.5 0 57.1 0.0 0.5 0.2 0.5 0.3 0.0 0.0
81-82 Dave Robisch
4 0 1.3 0.5 100.0 0 0 0.0 0.8 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
78-79 Fatty Taylor
4 0 1.3 0.5 0 0 100.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
76-77 Claude Terry
4 0 1.3 0.5 0.0 0.0 100.0 0.0 0.0 0.5 0.0 0.3 0.0 0.3
TOTALS 10 112.0 50.6 29.6 78.5 12.9 53.0 31.6 21.7 11.5 7.8 18.6
OPPONENTS 10 115.5 45.9 36.8 77.1 15.9 51.2 26.5 17.5 12.6 8.7 18.6

New York NEts
74-75 Julius Erving
10 10 38.9 24.9 54.8 53.8 76.6 2.7 11.5 6.1 3.6 2.2 2.4 3.1
74-75 Moses Malone
10 10 35.9 17.6 59.1 0 55.3 4.3 13.4 1.3 4.4 1.3 1.5 2.9
74-75 Charlie Scott
10 10 32.2 18.1 48.6 36.4 76.1 0.6 3.5 5.5 3.0 1.0 0.4 2.7
74-75 Larry Kenon
10 10 32.0 14.1 53.2 0 74.2 2.8 10.6 1.3 2.8 0.9 0.2 2.4
74-75 Gail Goodrich
10 10 28.5 16.5 50.4 44.0 78.3 1.0 2.1 5.5 1.6 0.9 0.0 2.0
74-75 Billy Paultz
10 0 25.7 10.3 48.8 0.0 73.1 1.2 6.6 1.3 0.9 0.8 1.4 2.0
76-77 Dave Bing
10 0 18.9 7.8 47.8 28.6 66.7 0.8 1.6 3.0 1.7 0.9 0.2 1.2
81-82 Brian Taylor
10 0 16.3 6.8 54.0 44.4 76.9 0.4 1.6 4.0 0.9 0.8 0.1 1.5
79-80 John Williamson
10 0 7.6 2.7 36.7 0.0 100.0 0.2 0.7 0.5 0.8 0.0 0.0 0.8
74-75 Billy Schaeffer
5 0 6.2 2.0 28.6 0.0 40.0 0.0 0.4 0.4 0.6 0.0 0.0 1.0
74-75 Ed Manning
6 0 3.2 0.5 33.3 0 50.0 0.0 0.5 0.0 0.0 0.2 0.0 0.3
73-74 Bill Melchionni
5 0 3.4 1.2 50.0 100.0 100.0 0.0 0.2 0.6 0.4 0.2 0.0 0.0
TOTALS 10 120.7 51.5 40.3 71.5 14.0 52.2 29.0 20.2 9.0 6.2 19.3
OPPONENTS 10 127.3 50.3 43.9 79.3 16.1 53.1 29.3 16.0 10.5 6.9 19.9

Philadelphia
74-75 Nate Archibald
10 10 38.0 22.4 48.3 37.5 81.1 0.6 2.1 9.8 3.0 1.7 0.3 2.5
74-75 Bob McAdoo
10 10 37.6 24.4 51.3 25.0 77.6 2.7 11.9 2.6 3.0 0.7 1.8 2.8
74-75 Caldwell Jones
10 10 33.6 14.6 55.6 0.0 76.2 2.9 11.3 2.2 1.4 0.6 2.2 2.7
74-75 Fred Carter
10 10 30.7 13.4 48.2 60.0 81.8 0.5 4.0 4.6 1.8 1.1 0.0 2.3
74-75 Rudy Tomjanovich
10 10 26.8 14.2 55.5 50.0 84.2 1.8 4.4 2.4 1.3 1.0 0.5 1.6
67-68 Billy Cunningham
10 0 21.0 12.2 43.2 42.9 74.2 2.4 5.8 1.9 2.3 1.2 1.0 1.8
78-79 Doug Collins
10 0 16.0 7.2 49.2 33.3 77.8 0.5 1.1 1.6 0.8 0.6 0.0 0.9
75-76 Clyde Lee
10 0 11.1 1.9 38.1 0.0 100.0 0.8 3.0 0.4 0.3 0.1 0.3 1.0
74-75 Allan Bristow
10 0 10.2 4.2 45.9 100.0 87.5 0.9 2.8 1.2 0.8 0.3 0.0 1.0
74-75 Don Smith
8 0 8.1 4.1 31.7 36.4 100.0 0.5 0.9 1.1 0.9 0.3 0.0 0.4
75-76 Leroy Ellis
10 0 6.1 1.5 50.0 33.3 0.0 0.5 2.2 0.4 0.3 0.2 0.1 0.6
75-76 Freddie Boyd
10 0 4.8 1.3 38.5 33.3 100.0 0.0 0.2 1.2 0.3 0.2 0.0 0.7
TOTALS 10 120.6 48.9 38.3 79.1 14.0 49.5 29.2 16.0 7.9 6.2 18.2
OPPONENTS 10 129.1 53.0 37.9 74.9 15.3 55.4 33.5 16.2 8.6 6.6 17.5

Again, just for fun . . .