Mock Off-Season: NBA Draft and continuation of Mock Offseason part 1

[NashtyNas]

I have a few different reactions/ideas...

1. I feel the need to finish this out because all of you did a great job with this that stayed on board and put every bit as much of work into it as I did. I wouldn't want to unfair to those of you that spent time on this.

2. Having said that, I fear starting free agency and having the participation level be inconsistent leading to a free agent signing somewhere without a team that would realistically be interested even making an offer.

3. I also wonder if with the time it takes to manage this for me, if coordinating transactions on the participating level is just as difficult. Basically, by this I'm asking if every one at this point is just doing it just to finish it out or if they're doing it because it's still fun. If it's still fun for every one, I would feel way too guilty just giving up on this. If it's become something that is just time consuming at this point, I would feel way too guilty making every one finish it out.

4. I am thinking of ideas to reward those that have made it this far and would like to still do something along these lines. I would have to really iron it out. But I'm thinking of asking those who would like to participate to let me know then do the mock off-season project I do on the trade board where I mock the off-season for all 30 teams, but different than usual. The different than usual part would be basically running things through the members that would like to assist. Essentially using the United States government chain of command as an example.. I would be President of the mock off-season and the participants would be the house of representatives. They would bring ideas to me, I would bounce ideas off of them, etc. for checks and balances, but I would have the final say.

I agree with you and I won't speak for others but I'm now just doing it because I agreed to and I will stick to my word.
I thought it was fun in the beginning when people are active and interested but as we lost more and more members, it just becomes a chore because half the participants are just not committed.

I'm doing the Lottery GMAT too and that's even worse because it's the same 10 people managing 2-3 teams each meaning grudges play a factor and so on. It's just not fun in this manner, and it has nothing to do with you or any of the management - it's a lack of consistent and committed participants.

[spree8]

I'll be honest... I think the constant complaining by people about realism is a huge turn off. I made a statement in the other thread that there have been many more deals made in prior offseasons that were much larger, or had players being flipped numerous times. This has not been that unrealistic.

Where this game went wrong...

1. Waiting a whole month before starting officially. Trade talk shouldn't have been opened up that far in advance. Of course some handshake deals are going to be broken up... Nas doesn't seem to let that go easily after all this time. It's not that big of a deal and definitely not a key factor in what's wrong with these types of games.

2. Forcing people into believing that realistic=minimal moves. That's not true and even realism is subjective especially when you consider the history of previous crazy offseasons.

3. Not having fully committed gm's.

4. Having the draft drag out for a week or more... should've had time limits.

5. Cluttering the draft thread and roster page thread with trade talk. It confuses people and it's difficult to keep track of everything.

6. Waiting almost another 2 weeks or so after the draft to start free agency.



Just my two cents. I'm fine with finishing this out, but wouldn't care at all at this point if it was scrapped.

[kalenclayton]

I'm asking this honestly, and I'm posting it in both threads — do you want to just bag this? No one should be forced to run a game they don't want to be a part of anymore.

I agree and will never be participating in another game on these boards after the 2 I'm in now are done.
People are extremely flaky and do not honor their word AT ALL.
I've had multiple deals agreed upon that fall through at the last second, we've had numerous people just disappear completely and others not respond for weeks at a time.

I feel sorry for those that took the initiative to start up these games but until we get a more mature audience that can stick to their words, these will never be extremely successful. Thank you for all your efforts SportsCrazy, you were great and I'm sorry it's ended up like this.

I have a few different reactions/ideas...

1. I feel the need to finish this out because all of you did a great job with this that stayed on board and put every bit as much of work into it as I did. I wouldn't want to unfair to those of you that spent time on this.

2. Having said that, I fear starting free agency and having the participation level be inconsistent leading to a free agent signing somewhere without a team that would realistically be interested even making an offer.

3. I also wonder if with the time it takes to manage this for me, if coordinating transactions on the participating level is just as difficult. Basically, by this I'm asking if every one at this point is just doing it just to finish it out or if they're doing it because it's still fun. If it's still fun for every one, I would feel way too guilty just giving up on this. If it's become something that is just time consuming at this point, I would feel way too guilty making every one finish it out.

4. I am thinking of ideas to reward those that have made it this far and would like to still do something along these lines. I would have to really iron it out. But I'm thinking of asking those who would like to participate to let me know then do the mock off-season project I do on the trade board where I mock the off-season for all 30 teams, but different than usual. The different than usual part would be basically running things through the members that would like to assist. Essentially using the United States government chain of command as an example.. I would be President of the mock off-season and the participants would be the house of representatives. They would bring ideas to me, I would bounce ideas off of them, etc. for checks and balances, but I would have the final say.

Sportscrazy, I thank you for everything you've done and I've had a blast. I am willing to help with any project you set forth to do in the future and in the present. I find it extremely fun and stimulating.

I absolutely want to finish this game out if everyone else does. Why would we all want to fall out of this when we have put so much time into this. I really think that if we start free agency with everyone knowing, then it will become fun again. We can still go into it with realism as the basis for our decisions. We just have to work this out with the rosters we've made.

Now if people want to quit on this, I get it. I just think we ow it to ourselves to try. We were having a ton of fun, but then the lags came and people got bored and angry. I'm pretty sure making pitches to Free Agents will make it fun again. If you and everyone else thinks it won't be fun, then I accept that. I just think that if we get Free Agency going, then people will get back on board and start having fun again. Just my 2 cents.

[Ralnor]

Are you guys looking for 'owners' or 'gms' to finish it out? I can help you guys out.

[Mich3006]

So what's going on right now? Did we stop it, really?!

It's still fun for me...

[NashtyNas]

So what's going on right now? Did we stop it, really?!

It's still fun for me...

I think we're leaning towards finishing it out, but it's becoming a pain to have to wait weeks at a stretch for people to respond before we can take the next step. The fact that the draft lasted so long is kind of unacceptable (with no fault from anyone except certain participants).

Are you guys looking for 'owners' or 'gms' to finish it out? I can help you guys out.

Thank you for volunteering. I've taken on a 2nd team in the interim - would you like to manage the Cavaliers?

[xSABOx]

By all means let's get through free agency.. like I said this has been fun to watch people work out trades, regardless of realism... now lets do the same for free agency..

My only thing is please don't start talking sign and trades until after a player shows interest in your team...

Lets have it scheduled and everyone give the thumbs up that they're ready to go and knock it out in a few days...

Sportscrazy, idk what the plan is but maybe the same way you did it with Melo stating he's only interested in certain teams, forced it to be realistic... have that approach with free agency? Put out there who the top dogs are mostly interested in playing for OR if they're just looking for $$$/join a contender... might speed things up a bit...guys can still put their offers in if they're not interested but also gives them a heads up to move on to someone else or make a trade...

[jayjaysee]

1. Waiting a whole month before starting officially. Trade talk shouldn't have been opened up that far in advance.

4. Having the draft drag out for a week or more... should've had time limits.

6. Waiting almost another 2 weeks or so after the draft to start free agency..

Agree with everything but especially this.

I know I did more trades than probably anymore mostly because I didn't want to back out of the handshake deals I had.. Which I only had because there was a month gap.

The goal was to add a second/third scorer and defense.. So the end result is what I wanted but all the extra steps make it look unrealistic? because I didn't want to back out of deals that were agreed when there were sub10 active people. If everyone was active at the same time, a lot of the steps for me (and probably others) would have been cut out.

So either inactive, unrealistic, or back out of early agreed deals. No one should be happy!

Tldr; the idea of handshake deals should be cut out. The month waiting period should be cut out. Just accepting Draftxpress would be better than a week long draft.

[stitches]

Hey BullyKing. Any development with Dragic? I want to have the trade done before FA(which it seems is starting tomorrow), if you choose to trade him to the Jazz. Thanks in advance and sorry for pushing, but I just need to know where I stand with my PG before FA starts.

..

[Knickfan1982]

Where this game went wrong...

1. Waiting a whole month before starting officially. Trade talk shouldn't have been opened up that far in advance. Of course some handshake deals are going to be broken up... Nas doesn't seem to let that go easily after all this time. It's not that big of a deal and definitely not a key factor in what's wrong with these types of games.

I agree on this. I think that one month delay was waaaaaaaaaaay too long and I raised that issue from the beginning.

2. Forcing people into believing that realistic=minimal moves. That's not true and even realism is subjective especially when you consider the history of previous crazy offseasons.

I disagree on this. No one was forced into anything. The goal of this thing was made clear from the very beginning. For one reason or another it wasn't followed through upon. It also doesn't work if there is no enforcement. Put rules in place where a player who was traded cannot be traded again in a package deal like it is in real life or stuff like that.

3. Not having fully committed gm's.

I agree but that's always a problem with these kind of games.

4. Having the draft drag out for a week or more... should've had time limits.

5. Cluttering the draft thread and roster page thread with trade talk. It confuses people and it's difficult to keep track of everything.

I agree. There should have been time limits on draft picks like there have been in every other version of this game. You don't make a certain pick by such and such time....you get the top person on the best available draft list or your preferred draft list. But part of the problem was THE LACK OF REALISM. In real life you wouldn't have bidding wars over almost every pick of the second round especially the last 3rd of the draft. The likelyhood of drafting a guy who sticks around the NBA as even a bench player let alone a Manu Ginobli type guy is so small that these heavy negotiations don't happen. There aren't 15-20 "can't miss...have to draft them before someone else does" type prospects at the last half of the second round in any 8 drafts let alone one. But it happened here and it dragged the process out unnecessarily long.

6. Waiting almost another 2 weeks or so after the draft to start free agency.

I agree.

[spree8]

Where this game went wrong...

1. Waiting a whole month before starting officially. Trade talk shouldn't have been opened up that far in advance. Of course some handshake deals are going to be broken up... Nas doesn't seem to let that go easily after all this time. It's not that big of a deal and definitely not a key factor in what's wrong with these types of games.

I agree on this. I think that one month delay was waaaaaaaaaaay too long and I raised that issue from the beginning.

2. Forcing people into believing that realistic=minimal moves. That's not true and even realism is subjective especially when you consider the history of previous crazy offseasons.

I disagree on this. No one was forced into anything. The goal of this thing was made clear from the very beginning. For one reason or another it wasn't followed through upon. It also doesn't work if there is no enforcement. Put rules in place where a player who was traded cannot be traded again in a package deal like it is in real life or stuff like that.

3. Not having fully committed gm's.

I agree but that's always a problem with these kind of games.

4. Having the draft drag out for a week or more... should've had time limits.

5. Cluttering the draft thread and roster page thread with trade talk. It confuses people and it's difficult to keep track of everything.

I agree. There should have been time limits on draft picks like there have been in every other version of this game. You don't make a certain pick by such and such time....you get the top person on the best available draft list or your preferred draft list. But part of the problem was THE LACK OF REALISM. In real life you wouldn't have bidding wars over almost every pick of the second round especially the last 3rd of the draft. The likelyhood of drafting a guy who sticks around the NBA as even a bench player let alone a Manu Ginobli type guy is so small that these heavy negotiations don't happen. There aren't 15-20 "can't miss...have to draft them before someone else does" type prospects at the last half of the second round in any 8 drafts let alone one. But it happened here and it dragged the process out unnecessarily long.

6. Waiting almost another 2 weeks or so after the draft to start free agency.

I agree.

For #2, what I'm saying is that sportscrazy said he didn't like that there were big names traded in the very beginning of the game, and then didn't like the amount of trades made because he thought they were unrealistic... my point is that expecting a game where 30 NBA teams do nothing but make minor deals over the course of an entire offseason is not necessarily realistic.

Realism is subjective... someone can't force people into believing what they feel is realistic. When you look at history, there have been offseasons that have just as many transactions as this game and have larger/crazier trades than this game. I gave examples in the other thread on this... one of those is... if this was 2007/08 and the Celtics went from being a rebuilding team to all of a sudden trading for Ray Allen and KG the way that the Pistons traded for Isaiah Thomas and LaMarcus Aldridge in this game, we'd all think it was unrealistic. Or Rasheed Wallace being traded twice back to back... or Ridnour being traded 100 times, we'd say the same thing. So who's to say what's right and what's wrong or real or not real?

As far as the rules for trading a player twice in a package, I thought it was being enforced... I know my Marc Gasol deal was submitted as 2 separate deals in order to obey the real rule... dunno about anyone else tho.

I think in the future, if anyone wants to make a game realistic in their eyes, then they should come up with 30 individual offseason goals for each team and have the gm's use that as their guideline. Otherwise, just let people do their best and wait for the judging part to start talking about realism instead of discouraging gm's halfway through the process. But shortening the time before the game starts (not 1 month) and the time of the draft (not a week or two) and free agency (also not 2 weeks) then gm's won't be bored and make more pointless trades just to keep their interest in the game or just flat out not have so much time available to make trades.

[BullyKing]

Hey BullyKing. Any development with Dragic? I want to have the trade done before FA(which it seems is starting tomorrow), if you choose to trade him to the Jazz. Thanks in advance and sorry for pushing, but I just need to know where I stand with my PG before FA starts.

..

I think we are going to pass. Exum or Lyles and one late first is not enough for us to move Dragic. If you gave me Exum and both of next year's 1sts, we'd do it.

[BullyKing]

Philadelphia is fine with you shopping around but will need to know one way or the other once free agency starts as we'll be in the market for a backup big without this trade.

I think we are in. What would it take to add Ish to this? I know youre not interested but i got to ask one more time.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Ugh, you're really trying to get me to go Full Hinkie aren't you? Let me give it some thought. I have to figure out how his 2018-19 salary would impact me.

Is the trade with only Gasol a go?

I represent Miami as well who might be interested in Ish.

[stitches]

Hey BullyKing. Any development with Dragic? I want to have the trade done before FA(which it seems is starting tomorrow), if you choose to trade him to the Jazz. Thanks in advance and sorry for pushing, but I just need to know where I stand with my PG before FA starts.

..

I think we are going to pass. Exum or Lyles and one late first is not enough for us to move Dragic. If you gave me Exum and both of next year's 1sts, we'd do it.

I can attach your choice of a second rounder or I can make the first "the better of" (hell lets do both better of and a second), but I won't do 2 firsts+Exum, sorry. Thoughts?

[BullyKing]

Hey BullyKing. Any development with Dragic? I want to have the trade done before FA(which it seems is starting tomorrow), if you choose to trade him to the Jazz. Thanks in advance and sorry for pushing, but I just need to know where I stand with my PG before FA starts.

I think we are going to pass. Exum or Lyles and one late first is not enough for us to move Dragic. If you gave me Exum and both of next year's 1sts, we'd do it.

I can attach your choice of a second rounder or I can make the first "the better of" (hell lets do both better of and a second), but I won't do 2 firsts+Exum, sorry. Thoughts?

What about the better of 2018 1sts and a future lottery protected 1st?

[stitches]

I think we are going to pass. Exum or Lyles and one late first is not enough for us to move Dragic. If you gave me Exum and both of next year's 1sts, we'd do it.

I can attach your choice of a second rounder or I can make the first "the better of" (hell lets do both better of and a second), but I won't do 2 firsts+Exum, sorry. Thoughts?

What about the better of 2018 1sts and a future lottery protected 1st?

No, I'm not doing 2 firsts. I can do your choice of a first + your choice of a second.(both can be better of if we have 2 picks in that year)

[BullyKing]

I can attach your choice of a second rounder or I can make the first "the better of" (hell lets do both better of and a second), but I won't do 2 firsts+Exum, sorry. Thoughts?

What about the better of 2018 1sts and a future lottery protected 1st?

No, I'm not doing 2 firsts. I can do your choice of a first + your choice of a second.(both can be better of if we have 2 picks in that year)

Thanks but we'll pass.

[stitches]

Thanks but we'll pass.

No worries... George Hill it is then.

[Knickfan1982]

For #2, what I'm saying is that sportscrazy said he didn't like that there were big names traded in the very beginning of the game, and then didn't like the amount of trades made because he thought they were unrealistic... my point is that expecting a game where 30 NBA teams do nothing but make minor deals over the course of an entire offseason is not necessarily realistic.

Realism is subjective... someone can't force people into believing what they feel is realistic. When you look at history, there have been offseasons that have just as many transactions as this game and have larger/crazier trades than this game. I gave examples in the other thread on this... one of those is... if this was 2007/08 and the Celtics went from being a rebuilding team to all of a sudden trading for Ray Allen and KG the way that the Pistons traded for Isaiah Thomas and LaMarcus Aldridge in this game, we'd all think it was unrealistic. Or Rasheed Wallace being traded twice back to back... or Ridnour being traded 100 times, we'd say the same thing. So who's to say what's right and what's wrong or real or not real?

Realism is subjective. That is true. Personally, now that I've checked the completed trades thread I don't think 37 completed trades is a lot in one offseason considering there are only 30 teams. However, subjective as reality is we all know what the teams we controlled here would and wouldn't do in real life. We signed up for a league that was meant to be realistic. Part of the problem is that we had waaaaaaaay too much time in the beginning of the game. A month is way too long. Part of the problem was that there was no time limit on draft picks. There is no reason a 60 player draft should take almost a full week. And why were Tyrus Jones, Justin Anderson and DeAndre Bembry passed around like a joint? There is one particular trade (I won't mention) that was just downright horrible.

[DocRI]

...

...

Hey Bully,

Did you catch this post from me (I think it was late Friday night)? Please give it a look, and Happy Memorial Day!

Hey buddy same to you. i think our plans on Korkmaz depend a little bit on what we hear about his intentions for coming over this year or not. We really like him and think he has only increased in value over the last year but would still prefer he spend another year abroad developing. If he does force the issue and come over this year, we are more likely to move him.

We'll have to see what his agent (i.e. sportscrazy) says about his intentions, but like I said, I'm very interested. Would you consider Boban and a protected first rounder (protection to be negotiated)?

Requoting this since free agency will be starting soon and 'cuz I saw you picked up your conversation with the Spurs regarding the Gasol deal. Might you still be interested in dealing Korkmaz? And sports, can we get an update on his intentions? Thanks to you both!