BaNT Co-champions: Shaqsux and dcash4

Post #21 » by **VintaGe36** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:28 am

I'm not gonna lie, The overrating of Lebron in this game is really turning me off to things like this.

Post #22 » by **Gremz** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:44 am

I'm getting a bit that way. Maybe we should just have a random draft and declare whoever gets LeBron the winner immediately. It would save a hell of a lot of time.

Nothing personal to ShaqSux, but honestly, are we talking about how a team looks on paper, or whether they are a superior team.

Look at the pieces that would surround LeBron best and then tell me that's what we're looking at here.

Post #23 » by **CellarDoor** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:09 pm

^I gave up expecting things like that on RGM a long time ago. The same sort of thing happens on the PC board with Michael Jordan quite frequently.

I've been holding off voting on this simply because I'm not sure how I see it going.

In the end, I don't see any added advantage to having LMA roaming on D. He's not a help defender. Shaqsux would be better suited to move Diaw into the back-up SF role and Lebron as a back-up PF to match up with Dirk as Diaw is much more versatile than LMA. No one is going to stop Lebron, but Battier and AK have two very different and very potent looks to give him as well as Shaq clogging the lane. My one concern on Cash's team is that his go-to guys aren't exactly famous in good ways in the clutch, but he DOES have AI and Harris in the back-court who can get anywhere they'd like at pretty much any time and Jason Kidd doesn't have the quickness to keep up with either one. Really, BG doesn't either.

DCash in 7. It's incredibly close.

Good series guys.

Post #24 » by **CellarDoor** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:13 pm

bryant08 wrote:Tough decision, I'm going Shaqsux in 7, I don't think that Battier will be able to stop LeBron when push comes to shove. I guess I'll further show my view point here.

LeBron head to head vs. Battier (12 games):

26.3 points, 7.3 rebounds, 6.4 assists, 2.3 steals, 2.1 3PM, 47%/44%/71%

Although Battier and the Rox did win 7 of 12, that can be based just as much on the team around him, and the original lack of quality surrounding LeBron in previous years.

If anyone could hold Lebron to or below most of his averages (what you've just listed), then I'd take that in a playoff series.

That being said, there's absolutely nothing to indicate that he CAN do that to Lebron in a PO series. There-in lies the voter discrepancy.

sterncohen · Post #25 » by **sterncohen** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:43 pm

DCash has a great team, but I don't think Shaq has suddenly reversed time and become the superstar of a few years ago. Very close call, as everyone else has said, but I'll take ShaqSux in 7.

Sports Arsenal · Post #26 » by **Sports Arsenal** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:54 pm

Tied up again! 4-4.... This has been an awesome series...

No offense to Vintage but, how can you possibly mention people overrating Lebron, with the overrating Shaq that has been going on...

Post #27 » by **CellarDoor** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:57 pm

Shaq is on a team that's pretty much built for him by Cash. Dirk is a 25+ ppg scorer, so we're not talking about pounding it into Shaq every possession. Michael Redd, Dirk, and Battier are all very good shooters who can spread the floor for Shaq like no other. Shaq was getting scrubs like Rick Fox noticed for their shooting, do you really think he can't do the same for Battier even later in his career?

Now don't get me wrong, Lebron > Shaq. (And to reach back to our series, Lebron > Duncan)

The two things that are frustrating Vintage (I think) are the people who seem to be treating it as if Lebron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shaq/whoever

and the fact that people are not considering match-ups at all. Ben Gordon trying to guard Redd? or AI? Lebron is unstoppable with just about any combination of people on him, and I'm glad people can recognize that, but putting an inferior (average at best, on the right person) defender in Ben Gordon on TWO different 20ppg scorers is a weakness. Putting Kid on either of his lightning quick guards is a weakness (he's been guarding SGs all year with Terry and Barea guarding PGs). There's been countless times in multiple series where, even if the outcome was the right one, there's been a few people who have shown a complete disregard for match-ups and an unwillingness to turn on their brain long enough to vote.

/rant off

It happens in every game, I just usually deal with it.

quazi31 · Post #28 » by **quazi31** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:29 am

really tough call but dcash4 team is so good that you cant say no to im taking dcash4 in 6

Post #29 » by **dockingsched** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:45 am

All votes must be in by Tuesday night when the clock strikes midnight.

players yet to vote:

amb1ent
Mascot
nba_addict
The Sixth Man

Post #30 » by **VintaGe36** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:02 am

BG is horrible defender, Kidd is hardly a shut down player in this stage of his career, and doesn't really fit all that well with Lebron, Aldridge and Bynum is a young talented frontcourt, but they are still that, YOUNG. Come playoff time, you really think they'll be able to contain a Shaq/Dirk combo? People just keep saying "LBJ is too much, Shaqsux in 7". LBJ is a STUD, that we know, but compare the other starting positions, and you see that Dcash has an advantage all the way down. I'm not saying Dcash is far and away the better team(he's not), but people need to stop proclaiming that Lebron will dominate this series, when A. He's never played a team with defenders like Battier AND AK47 to slow him down, not to mention the combo of that with Shaq clogging the lane. People need to take these into account.

Sports Arsenal · Post #31 » by **Sports Arsenal** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:51 am

I don't know who wins this series but best supporting cast definitely goes to Vintage...

MJallday59 · Post #32 » by **MJallday59** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:28 am

VintaGe36 wrote:BG is horrible defender, Kidd is hardly a shut down player in this stage of his career, and doesn't really fit all that well with Lebron, Aldridge and Bynum is a young talented frontcourt, but they are still that, YOUNG. Come playoff time, you really think they'll be able to contain a Shaq/Dirk combo? People just keep saying "LBJ is too much, Shaqsux in 7". LBJ is a STUD, that we know, but compare the other starting positions, and you see that Dcash has an advantage all the way down. I'm not saying Dcash is far and away the better team(he's not), but people need to stop proclaiming that Lebron will dominate this series, when A. He's never played a team with defenders like Battier AND AK47 to slow him down, not to mention the combo of that with Shaq clogging the lane. People need to take these into account.

Hard for me to say that Dcash has the advantage all the way down.

Devin Harris vs Kidd? While Harris is playing better, he's never been a stud in playoff time

Redd vs Gordon? This matchup cancels each other out. Redd can't d up and neither can Gordon

Battier vs Lebron? If any player can slow down Lebron it's gotta be Battier. While Lebron may be overrated in this game, there is nobody on cash's team who can stop him.

Dirk vs Aldridge? Dirk no question

Shaq vs Bynum? I'd say pretty equal honestly. Just my opinion.

So it's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

Shaq vs Bynum? While Shaq has been having a great season, this matchup would be pretty close.

You're right, Lebron has never played against Battier and AK-47...and I think they slow him down a bit. But you're not taking into account the fact that Lebron has never played with a team as talented as the one shaqsux put together.

We've seen how well the Devin Harris/Dirk combo worked together in the past. And you could argue that JET is a better defender than Redd...Is Battier better than Josh Howard? Not at all...

Overall it's still a close series but I think Lebron can carry this team to a win...

Post #33 » by **dockingsched** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:36 am

eh, i don't like your reasoning. you say harris is playing better, then take a swipe at his playoff performance although he himself has been a starting pg on a finals team. then u turn around and call shaq and bynum even when bynum has never started a game in the playoffs and only played like 10 garbage minutes in his rookie year. aldridge has never played in the playoffs to boot. i don't think mowill has played significant playoff minutes either has he? yeah, taking a swipe at harris' playoff perfomance isn't a good idea if u are voting for shaqsux's roster.

i also didn't like how shaqsux made this big deal about iverson being a cancer or something. these are basically all-star teams. every single player not a top option on our teams is playing a reduced role compared to real life. its just not a legit argument, especially with a personality like shaq on my roster.

Post #34 » by **dockingsched** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:39 am

im going to pm the remaining participants. if the tie is broken by midnight eastern, then the winner will be declared. if it isn't broken, the match will be extended 24 hrs, at which point the winner will be declared.

Post #35 » by **VintaGe36** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:41 am

MJallday59 wrote:Hard for me to say that Dcash has the advantage all the way down.

Devin Harris vs Kidd? While Harris is playing better, he's never been a stud in playoff time

Redd vs Gordon? This matchup cancels each other out. Redd can't d up and neither can Gordon

Battier vs Lebron? If any player can slow down Lebron it's gotta be Battier. While Lebron may be overrated in this game, there is nobody on cash's team who can stop him.

Dirk vs Aldridge? Dirk no question

Shaq vs Bynum? I'd say pretty equal honestly. Just my opinion.

So it's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

Shaq vs Bynum? While Shaq has been having a great season, this matchup would be pretty close.

How convenient that the whole "experience over youth" plays to your logic's favor for Harris vs. Kidd, even though Harris has pretty much owned Kidd this year stats wise, than you throw that out the window for the rest of the comparisons?

Post #36 » by **dockingsched** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:07 am

voting extended 24 hrs. new deadline is wednesday night, midnight. if the match is still tied shaqsux and i have agreed that the lower seeded team wins.

Sports Arsenal · Post #37 » by **Sports Arsenal** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:35 am

Compare what Shaq is doing with the caliber of players he has around him to what Lebron is doing with the caliber of players around him

Phoenix Suns-(36-31)
C- Shaq (A great player)
PF- Amare( A great player) And has played well without Shaq
SF-Hill( A good player)
SG-Richardson (A great player) And has played well without Shaq
PG- Nash (A great player) And has played well without Shaq
Note: Having a big man who can shoot the 3 with Shaq (Diaw) didn't fare well for them.
Cleveland (54-13)
C-Z (Decent player) Plays on the same level without Lebron
PF- Varejao (Decent player) Plays much better with Lebron
SF- Lebron (Great player)
SG- Wally (Decent player) plays better with lebron
PG- Mo (Decent player) plays much much better with lebron

Sports Arsenal · Post #38 » by **Sports Arsenal** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:41 am

dcash4 wrote:voting extended 24 hrs. new deadline is wednesday night, midnight. if the match is still tied shaqsux and i have agreed that the lower seeded team wins.

What?
Who said anything about the lower seed winning?
I thought we said the higher seed

Post #39 » by **VintaGe36** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:45 am

Question, how are JRich and Hill "great" players, and Mo and Z only "decent". I'm sure the "decent" players playing with LBJ has nothing to do with that right? :roll:

Sports Arsenal · Post #40 » by **Sports Arsenal** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:53 am

VintaGe36 wrote:Question, how are JRich and Hill "great" players, and Mo and Z only "decent". I'm sure the "decent" players playing with LBJ has nothing to do with that right?

Learn to read...
I put Hill was a good player, which Im sorry if you equate good as greater than decent but they are similar to me....
Good god dude, do you really have that little of a life that you are sitting waiting for me to post so you can disect and point out every flaw in what I say and defend another man's game...
Why don't you let cash do that talking?
And in my opinion Mo Williams was only a decent player before he played with Bron.
Z in my opinion is only a decent player... He is not a great player.
J Rich is a great player in my opinion...

Now lets let cash do his talking and you can sit back and enjoy being a spectator...