Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion

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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#201 » by Snakebites » Fri Feb 28, 2025 1:00 am

flaco wrote:
ReggiesKnicks wrote:
flaco wrote:Sure, but it would go through the roof if you give him a 3 as well.


Sure and CP3 would be the GOAT at 6'6".

Apples and oranges. Can't teach size. Can definitely teach shooting, especially since we know for a fact he was a terrific shooter from mid/long 2pt range and the FT line.

I get selecting a modern star over an unproven shooter from the 80s. It's when I selected Andrew f@cking Wiggins over HOFer George Gervin that I realized there's something wrong in the way we judge players.

Elvin Hayes is a top 10 PF of all time, at the very least. Honest question: Did anybody consider drafting him?

Elvin Hayes has issues beyond being an "old head" though.

He was a major ball stopper, and inefficient despite being predominantly a low post guy. Hard to picture him fitting well on a team in these games. Bob McAdoo who is from the same era gets a decent amount of run in these because his game more clearly translates to the modern era.
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#202 » by flaco » Fri Feb 28, 2025 1:04 am

Snakebites wrote:
flaco wrote:
ReggiesKnicks wrote:
Sure and CP3 would be the GOAT at 6'6".

Apples and oranges. Can't teach size. Can definitely teach shooting, especially since we know for a fact he was a terrific shooter from mid/long 2pt range and the FT line.

I get selecting a modern star over an unproven shooter from the 80s. It's when I selected Andrew f@cking Wiggins over HOFer George Gervin that I realized there's something wrong in the way we judge players.

Elvin Hayes is a top 10 PF of all time, at the very least. Honest question: Did anybody consider drafting him?

Elvin Hayes has issues beyond being an "old head" though.

He was a major ball stopper, and inefficient despite being predominantly a low post guy. Hard to picture him fitting well on a team in these games. Bob McAdoo who is from the same era gets a decent amount of run in these because his game more clearly translates to the modern era.

Fair enough. I'm fairly low on his game too. The talent is undeniable though. I guess he would have been a Center in today's game unless he were paired with a legit high volume stretch 5 like BroLo or KAT.
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#203 » by JimmyPlopper » Fri Feb 28, 2025 1:10 am

Jack Sikma also has a pretty efficient 1989 season that doesn't often get used
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#204 » by flaco » Fri Feb 28, 2025 1:17 am

JimmyPlopper wrote:I think Adrian Dantley should get more love in our league (and I'm equally to blame). He was excellent at drawing fouls and hitting foul shots at a high rate. Super sixth man type.

Unfortunately, he's a suspect defender. Can't justify both limited spacing and questionable defense. I'd argue Butler offers a similar offensive package (far better facilitator, worse scorer) while also being a superior 2-way player. Not to mention, he's conisderably cheaper as well.
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#205 » by Snakebites » Fri Feb 28, 2025 1:19 am

JimmyPlopper wrote:Jack Sikma also has a pretty efficient 1989 season that doesn't often get used

That's another guy. He played much of his career post 3 point line but nobody was shooting them.

I definitely think he'd have had a 3 point range in the modern NBA, even in his earlier seasons.

There is an issue here- only so many FGA to go around. Even if you can argue some of these guys would transfer better than we give them credit for, but are you going to start taking them OVER modern players?

We already have inefficient modern guys who rarely get picked for this reason.
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#206 » by flaco » Fri Feb 28, 2025 1:35 am

Snakebites wrote:
JimmyPlopper wrote:Jack Sikma also has a pretty efficient 1989 season that doesn't often get used

That's another guy. He played much of his career post 3 point line but nobody was shooting them.

I definitely think he'd have had a 3 point range in the modern NBA, even in his earlier seasons.

There is an issue here- only so many FGA to go around. Even if you can argue some of these guys would transfer better than we give them credit for, but are you going to start taking them OVER modern players?

We already have inefficient modern guys who rarely get picked for this reason.

I'd take him over modern stiffs like Ayton, Vucevic, Nurkic, Valanciunas, etc, but these guys hardly ever get selected anyway. If I could choose between Sikma and a modern stretch 5, I'd probably go with the modern player. Not saying the modern player is necessarily better, just that I'm more familiar with his game.

Was watching Shaq talk about all-time great Centers. Was surprised to hear Sikma's name in the same convo with DRob and Robert Parish. Especially coming from Shaq who generally favors old school bruisers over stretch bigs.

go at 5:17 for the Sikma reference
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#207 » by Dr Positivity » Fri Feb 28, 2025 1:49 am

The season where Sikma shoots 3s and costs 10 FGA he is slightly old for me to feel great about it, the younger one is like the early 2010s Marc Gasol of this time but I wouldn't want him playing against Shaq as much as Gasol.
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#208 » by ReggiesKnicks » Fri Feb 28, 2025 2:01 am

flaco wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
JimmyPlopper wrote:Jack Sikma also has a pretty efficient 1989 season that doesn't often get used

That's another guy. He played much of his career post 3 point line but nobody was shooting them.

I definitely think he'd have had a 3 point range in the modern NBA, even in his earlier seasons.

There is an issue here- only so many FGA to go around. Even if you can argue some of these guys would transfer better than we give them credit for, but are you going to start taking them OVER modern players?

We already have inefficient modern guys who rarely get picked for this reason.

I'd take him over modern stiffs like Ayton, Vucevic, Nurkic, Valanciunas, etc, but these guys hardly ever get selected anyway. If I could choose between Sikma and a modern stretch 5, I'd probably go with the modern player. Not saying the modern player is necessarily better, just that I'm more familiar with his game.

Was watching Shaq talk about all-time great Centers. Was surprised to hear Sikma's name in the same convo with DRob and Robert Parish. Especially coming from Shaq who generally favors old school bruisers over stretch bigs.

go at 5:17 for the Sikma reference
;t=7s


He revolutionized the reverse pivot. Much of the 1990s face-up bigs utilized this--Hakeem, Shaq, DRob, KMalone to name a few.

In fact, watching a lot of Pacers games growing up, Rik Smits utilized this same reverse pivot a lot. In fact, Rik Smits was one of the first players I remember who would reverse pivot into quick shot fake to get the defender shifting baseline and then go to work.

Another player who was historically underrated but also fits the bill as a 3P shooting Center in the current age. We only have Play-By-Play data for his final 4 seasons but it paints him as a terrific shooter--47% from long-2 and 77% from the FT Line. At 7' 4", he would get his shot off over anyone, even easier than Brook Lopez. Lopez is a career 39% shooter from long-2.

It also goes to show you how misleading FG% is. Rik Smits was a sub-50% FG% shooter his final 4 seasons, but shot less than 15% of his shots at the Rim. Talk about providing spacing--a Center who rarely shoots at the Rim is incredibly valuable.

It's actually hilarious to think about how the answers to all the evolution in the NBA was staring us right in the face. My 1998 Pacers were one of the best teams to never win a title. They took the Bulls to 7 games and, had Jordan played like he did in the Finals against them, they would have easily won the series against the Bulls. But the starting line-up for the Pacers were all +10 or better Net-Rtg. They had Mullin, Reggie and Smits all providing incredibly valuable spacing around a playmaker (Mark Jackson) which allowed them to play two center line-ups to bolster their defense (they finished Top 5 in both Ortg and Drtg for the season).

Still bummed about us not winning a title with Reggie.
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#209 » by durantbird » Fri Feb 28, 2025 2:21 pm

ReggiesKnicks wrote:

migya wrote:

Stan wrote:


Please finish your roster pages by 4pm EDT today. Then we will start playoffs
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#210 » by durantbird » Sat Mar 1, 2025 7:51 am

There were 10 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

MadNess
uberhikari
JimmyPlopper
Fadeaway_J
ReggiesKnicks
durantbird
Dr Positivity
migya
flaco
Larry_Russell
IP: 46.210.143.123
Timestamp: 2025-03-01 07:50:21 UTC


Playin

MadNess vs uberhikari
JimmyPlopper vs Fadeaway_J
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#211 » by migya » Sun Mar 2, 2025 1:32 am

I like the new voting system, using the poll. Is there a way of knowing who voted for who or at least knowing the name of those who voted? That would ensure transparency and that noone who is not in a participant voting.
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#212 » by Fadeaway_J » Sun Mar 2, 2025 11:57 am

migya wrote:I like the new voting system, using the poll. Is there a way of knowing who voted for who or at least knowing the name of those who voted? That would ensure transparency and that noone who is not in a participant voting.

There isn't, but non-participants have never been barred from voting anyway.
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#213 » by durantbird » Mon Mar 3, 2025 1:13 pm

List Randomizer
There were 8 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

uberhikari
ReggiesKnicks
Dr Positivity
flaco
JimmyPlopper
Larry_Russell
migya
durantbird
IP: 46.210.149.229
Timestamp: 2025-03-03 13:10:57 UTC


uberhikari vs ReggiesKnicks
Dr Positivity vs flaco
JimmyPlopper vs Larry_Russell
migya vs durantbird
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#214 » by migya » Mon Mar 3, 2025 2:36 pm

Where is the poll in my matchup? Can't see it
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#215 » by Fadeaway_J » Mon Mar 3, 2025 3:19 pm

migya wrote:Where is the poll in my matchup? Can't see it

It will be added when the writeups are posted.
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Re: Not Loyal, No Journeyman Draft (Post Merger) - Discussion 

Post#216 » by durantbird » Wed Mar 5, 2025 12:34 pm

There were 4 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

Dr Positivity
ReggiesKnicks
durantbird
JimmyPlopper
IP: 2a06:c701:44f9:8e00:15de:9feb:6595:17e2
Timestamp: 2025-03-05 12:33:39 UTC


Dr Positivity vs ReggiesKnicks
durantbird vs JimmyPlopper

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