69-78 Dynasty League Playoffs (ERA OVER)

[lukekarts]

Gah, I swear if I hadn't ended up with TMAC my boys could make it to the Finals

[Snakebites]

We've had some discussions about beefing up the points a bit for second place people and final four losers, so that value may change.

[TMACFORMVP]

ROUND 2 - WRITEUP V. GREMZ

As always, facing a guy like Gremz is a tough challenge. Behind the jokes, and obvious like able nature lies a basketball historian that knows how teams should be built. Whenever you're facing one of the more knowledgeable posters, it's always going to be a challenge. This time, it's no different from past competitions, he's built a terrific team, where all I can say is, may the best team win, which my team fully intends to do so.

1.) I think in order for Gremz to win, he not only needs extraordinarily terrific offensive performances from Gilmore and Baylor, but from another third option whether it be in the starting lineup or off the bench. To put it simply, I do not see this happening.

We'll be putting Wise on Baylor, and Walton on Gilmore. I think at this point I've gone through the defensive credentials of both players with my last writeup (ABA's best all round forward, Walton's defensive sort impact on Blazers). It's also interesting to note, the chosen '69 season for Baylor, he also averaged only 15.4 PPG on .385 from the field throughout the Lakers playoff run. I also think with Van Lier being a .402 shooter, and Thurmond/Sloan being not particularly efficient, or capable of beating my team either, we have opportunities to double down, and use our quick hands with our interior and perimeter defense to further limit Baylor and Gilmore. Thurmond also adds to players in chosen seasons shooting 38% or lower in their respective post season.

Another note: In 76-77, Gilmore faced off with Walton in the playoffs. Gilmore shot only .475 from the field. I think this is another matchup, in which a prime Bill Walton will have the edge over his counterpart, even though a peak Gilmore will provide a formidable challenge that would be obviously fun to watch.

In short, I'm not sold even if Gilmore and Baylor were to get their averages (which is likely in volume considering their roles offensively) that it'd be enough to win this series. It would have to exceed their normal production, and with Wise/Walton covering each player, with Frazier, and Gus helping off their man, we're confident that we can hold them to even below their averages.

2.) Gremz main calling card is his defense, we however feel we have the execution, passing, and efficiency to overcome Gremz's stifling defense.

Code: Select all

Frazier - 23.2 PPG on .571 TS% (.512 FG%)
Brown - 23.0 PPG on .572 TS% (.498 FG%) 
Wise - 23.2 PPG on .558 TS% (.505 FG%)
Johnson - 18.2 PPG on .494 TS% (.454 FG%)
Walton - 18.6 PPG on .563 TS% (.522 FG%)
Cunningham - 26.1 PPG on .524 TS% (.469 FG%) 
Westphal - 25.2 PPG on .565 TS% (.519 FG%) - IN ONLY 31 MINS
Beaty - 22.9 PPG on .612 TS% (.555 FG%)

a.) I don't think you can really shut down Walton, his passing skill, and court vision, ability to ignite the fast break is unparalleled during his peak. Granted he's shown to have success against Gilmore in the NBA, once again, I doubt he could limit him to the point where it would have a dramatic effect on the series in the favor of Gremz.

b.) Extended use of Cunningham. I say this because, despite Gremz defensive prowess, he can be exploited with quickness, athleticism, and a jumpshot at the four spot, and Baylor's lack of defense at the three spot. We feel Cunningham does exactly this, he'll force Nate to be quick on his feet, rotate out to the perimeter, or use that quickness to create easy bucket opportunities for our other offensive players. Wise will also be able to exploit Baylor defensively, as he was an underrated offensive player as well.

c.) Our efficiency is already noted, but I'd also to expand on the greatness of guys like Frazier. He's done his thing against the best of the defenders at the highest of levels. He's one the greatest guards to have ever played the game. Westphal is also an All-NBA player that was a monstrous scorer during his prime (25 PPG in only 31 MPG), and Brown is a terrific player at creating off the dribble or hitting him the perimeter.

In short again, we have matchups which we feel we could exploit, and a sound offensive gameplan with post passing, perimeter scoring, and terrific efficiency to counter a defense like Gremz's.

Other Random Notes: On paper, rebounding is rather close, however it's still worth noting out PF/C combo actually have a higher TRB% opposed to Gremz's frontcourt duo. 34.4 TRB% combined opposed to Walton/Johnson being at 40.8 TRB%. Factor in our backcourt also rebounds better, and Wise/Baylor being very similar at this point of their careers, we have a better rebounding edge as well (even with Cunningham/Walton on the floor).

Conclusion: I think we have matchups we can exploit offensively (Cunningham, Wise, Frazier, even Walton), while having the defense to adequately limit Gremz's offense. Rebounding, passing and other intangibles are also in our edge too. Gremz has built a fantastic team, I just think we match up favorably enough to pull out the win in a good series.

Best of luck Gremz, may the best team win.

[Snakebites]

This is one of the better matchups I’ve had the priviledge of facing. Two great teams, similar in certain aspects in terms of the manner in which they were put together, and certainly presenting their own challenges with multiple all stars in each lineup. As we will show, our team has some distinctions that will work to our advantage and ultimately sway the series. First, we we’d like to take a look at the pivotal front court matchups, were each team has a pair of Hall of Famers starting.

Chamberlain vs Kareem

First, I will speak generally. Neither of these centers really require an introduction, they are frequently in the debate as the two greatest centers (and, indeed, players) of all time. The difference here? These two players are at distinctly different stages of their careers. Kareem is at his absolute peak in this year. He is a championship winner, MVP, and already labeled as possibly the best player ever. His peak is being compared to that of PRIME Wilt Chamberlain, and in many cases favorably. This is not that Wilt.

This Wilt was reported to have bad knees and issues with quickness. It isn’t really accurate to call him a shadow of his former self. Indeed, as we’ll see (and my opponent will surely expound upon), he’s still effective in many aspects of the game, but he’s no Kareem. Offensively, the numbers bear out, while Wilt was impressively efficient, the gap in production is clear. Defensively, arguably nobody in this era matches a prime Kareem, either. Proponents will point out that Wilt some strong performances against Kareem in the season Bryant08 selected for him. Make no mistake here:

Overall, in the two selected years (71, 72), Kareem decidedly won the matchup. Let’s observe Kareem’s stats in games in the regular season:

40.2 ppg, 15.2 rpg, 5 apg, 51% from the field.

In other words, in the regular season Kareem actually performed BETTER than his godly stats in games against Wilt and the Lakers.

What about the playoffs? Keep in mind, these numbers represent the absolute BEST Wilt did against Kareem in these selected years.

Wilt - 10.8 ppg, 19.3 rpg, 3.3 apg, 45.2 FG%, 44 FT% (probably about a 6-7 block average)
Kareem - 33.7 ppg, 17.5 rpg, 4.8 apg on 45.7 FG%, 84 FT% (probably about 4-5 block average)

As you can see, Wilt made an impressive defensive stand, but Kareem had a major impact as well. He took an extremely high volume of shots in part due to the fact that Oscar Robertson was injured. This also allowed the defense to focus on him which had a negative impact on his efficiency throughout the playoffs, not just against Wilt. As a result of these various factors (in addition to Wilt’s defensive performance) the Lakers, with Hall of Famer Jerry West doing more than helping, managed to bring home the series victory. Wilt might at times force Kareem to shoot a low percentage, but looking at the overall trend in this, Wilt’s best year vs. Kareem and both the regular season and playoffs combined in each of the two years selected for these players in this game, I think its still clear who the better player was. In the previous year (Kareem’s selected year), Kareem defeated Wilt in the playoffs and posted godly numbers in the playoffs AND regular season.

So when considering Wilt’s defense, which was at times impressive against Kareem, keep some perspective in the fact that, more times than not, Kareem was still able to have BIG production numbers against his rival. We're essentially weighing a single playoff series somewhat favoring Wilt vs. two regular seasons AND a playoff series that decidedly favored the younger and more prolific Kareem.

POWER FORWARD MATCHUP:

In MVP Bob Mcadoo’s lone playoff series in the chosen year (incidentally against Hayes’ Bullets), there is no doubt he posted impressive volume numbers, helping the Braves push the series to 7 games with 38 ppg and impressive rebounding numbers as well. While these numbers are impressive in and of themselves, it is important to retain some perspective here with respect to those numbers. McAdoo’s useage was extremely high, shooting OVER 30 shots per game in that series (easily topping out at over 200 shot attempts for those 7 games). Furthermore, his TS% dropped to a marginal (if not downright mediocre) 52%, with a 48% shooting.

So, these numbers came with a huge number of shots at a reduced efficiency. For those thinking this series could have been a fluke, you can see similar drops in efficiency in subsequent playoff performances. While McAdoo certainly “got his” against Hayes, he didn’t seem to do so at particularly impressive efficiency. Furthermore, one should expect that, assuming Bryant08’s offense functions the way it should that McAdoo, the best offensive player but by a smaller margin, should see a marked drop in useage. Against our defense, however, it seems unlikely his efficiency will go up. Thus, he will have fewer shots at likely similar efficiency against Hayes (with some help from Kareem, Wilt’s role in the offense was somewhat diminished by this time). He may be able to put up some nice numbers, but given Hayes ALSO performs well against the average defense of McAdoo, I have a hard time imagining this being the defining matchup of the series, and there certainly isn’t going to be the same sort of gap we see at the center position in our favor.

PERIMETER MATCHUPS AND BENCH: I group these together because both teams used their first two picks to grab hall of fame big men that do so much to define their respective teams. Bob Dandridge was better than Jamal Wilkes in selected years, but both players are role players often relegated to being third or fourth options while on the court. Wilkes had some post game and a solid (if slightly bizarre) midrange jumpshot, while Dandrige was primarily a midrange player. Both will also fulfill their roles as defensive players admirably.

At the guard spot, you’ve essentially got 4 all star level players who’s impact will be felt most strongly at the offensive end. Both of my starting guards are both outstanding scorers and terrific passers/playmakers. Each have a reputation for being very unselfish as well. Monroe is the most interesting guard for either team because he combined the ability to play with other great players (evidenced by his role on the championship Knick teams in his later career) and the ability to take over games when needed, as evidenced by a rather impressive 28 ppg output in the playoffs in our selected year. I firmly believe he’s the best guard in this series.

Randy Smith was a tremendously underrated all round player. He was a terrific all round offensive player with shooting ability, great speed and athleticism, and a strong passing ability. Most unsung, however, was his defensive ability. Though he never played on any teams known for their defense, he was respected as a perimeter defender around the league.

In fact, Walt Frazier was once quoted as saying “I hate playing against that guy,” a testament to the challenge he posed to his opponents on both ends of the floor. With these two in our backcourt, we feel we mount a very strong case against any backcourt, including the one our opponents have. Wilkens is a gifted all round point guard with diverse skills, but he’ll have his hands full guarding the taller and very athletic smith. Walter Davis was an efficient scorer but didn’t bring a great deal else to the table at this stage in his career.

On the bench, I think this is a clear case of more talent (Bryant’s team) vs. more clearly defined roles (my team). Jo Jo White was certainly a great scorer and a decent passer who played a great role on some great teams, but as primarily an offensive option its not clear what he brings to the table in a lineup with not many more shots to go around once all starters are factored in. Chet Walker is in a similar boat offensively, but is more interesting given his sound defensive reputation. Though not lockdown as a defensive threat, he had a reputation for toughness that serves him well, though he was more of a combo forward during much of his career, playing in the two small forward offense with Bob Love and sometimes called upon to guard larger, tougher players, but not smaller, faster ones. He may be a tad out of place guarding some of my perimeter guys. Sanders and Smith should fulfill their roles in limited minutes, though Smith wasn’t the defender his stats might indicate, he was still solid.

My bench, on the other hand, has players brought in especially for one purpose: DEFENSE. Though our starting lineup isn’t poor defensively by any stretch (no liabilities and 4 players who played very tough defense), you can never have too much, and the scoring we bring to the table with our starters is more than sufficient and quite efficient overall as well. Hollins, Riordan, and Roundfield were all very tough All-NBA level defensive players, and each brings something else to the table that is helpful as well. Roundfield helps a bit with spacing with a nice jumpshot, Hollins gives us another playmaker to help out offensively, and Riordan gives us another jump shooter who can play either wing spot with equal fluidity. Each contributes something specific to the team and is an optimal fit in our system.

Overall, we feel we have the best player in the series and a sufficiently strong offensive and defensive attack to help us carry the day. We also feel that our teams defense, with 7 extremely strong defenders, at least one at every position, is considerably stronger overall than that of our opponents. We feel when you look at the evidence and the matchups that the only conclusion one can make is that this will be a terrific series, and one that will ultimately see us advance and our opponents meet with a dignified defeat.

[bryant08]

First off I want to say how awesome this matchup is with Snakebites. Plenty of little storylines especially in head-to-head matchups for some of the guys playing in the series. I think it’ll be a tight one, but I’m very confident in my team’s ability to pull out the win.

I want to start by addressing the KAJ/Wilt matchup at center. No doubt about it, Kareem is the best player in this era, he was straight up dominant. However, if you were to ask me what guys I would want defending Kareem on my team in this era, I’d have to go Nate Thurmond as my first choice, and Wilt second. I had my eye on this potential matchup the moment I drafted Wilt, and I passed on better offensive numbers for the season that defined Wilt as an elite defensive player. And the 1972 WCF is looked at as the series in which Wilt was at his absolute best defensively. We don’t have too many specific numbers from the series, but thanks to the Retro Player of the Year Threads we have information posted by some excellent contributors which is a great reference point. Credit to all those contributors, as I will be using tidbits of their information.

After a game 3 Lakers victory, Wilt said the following:

“I guess I’d say it was my best game against him in some time, but this is a team game and I had help. You can’t worry about trying to beat Milwaukee by stopping him cold, because it’s an impossible feat.”

Now in that game, Wilt blocked a total of 9 shots (6 of them apparently on KAJ), but that statement is my motto for the series. This isn’t about shutting KAJ down, this is about doing the absolute best job you can on him defensively and making him work for his points. If Kareem is going to score 30+ points I’m totally fine with that, as long as it’s on a low efficiency which Wilt has shown he’s capable of. Here’s an interesting quote from Fatal9:

Aggregate stats do hide the fact that Wilt forced Kareem into several poor shooting games. Kareem's shooting by the game was: 14/26, 18/31, 15/37, 14/33, 13/33, 16/37. Kareem averaged 33 FGA in the series, which is an outrageous amount to take against an elite defensive center like Wilt (I doubt anyone has shot over 50% in a 6-7 game playoff series where they averaged 30+ shots, especially against a defensive powerhouse).

This is from a Milwaukee Journal article soon after the WCF:

In the semifinal series with the Lakers, Abdul-Jabbar had a tremendous edge in scoring, 202-67, but was outrebounded, 116-105, and was outmuscled by a greater margin than that. He actually reached the point on occasion where he was intimidated by Chamberlain as he headed toward the basket, and who ever heard of the big Buck being intimidated?

The Lakers eliminated the Bucks in six games, and the turning point occurred, with the series tied 2-2, when Chamberlain took advantage of his tremendous advantage in weight and strength and began pushing Abdul-Jabbar around. Wilt is listed at 275 pounds but probably weighs 290, to Abdul-Jabbar’s 230.

Perhaps the best illustration of Abdul-Jabbar’s difficulties lay in his shooting averages. He shot .574 in the regular season but only .437 in the playoffs ― .405 against Thurmond and .457 against Chamberlain.

Because of the strong defensive work of his two veteran rivals, Abdul-Jabbar often was forced away from his favorite shooting positions. He took hook shots from 12 to 15 feet away instead of from 8 to 10, and sometimes he even resorted to 15 foot jump shots.

Keep It Up

As Chamberlain put it after the fifth game in Los Angeles, which the Lakers won, 115-90, “Tonight Kareem was taking jump shots. That’s something he doesn’t usually do, but I hope he keeps on doing it.”

Abdul-Jabbar took more jump shots Saturday as the Lakers ended the series with a 104-100 victory, and Bucks Coach Larry Costello said, “I don’t want Kareem taking 15 footers. You do that and you’re just not playing your game.”

But Chamberlain’s dominating presence obviously had much to do with Abdul-Jabbar’s change in tactics, and Wilt’s performance against the man who supposedly had usurped his title as king of the giants must have been one of the most satisfying of his long career.

I think my gameplan and Wilt’s capabilities to make Kareem work are illustrated well in and amongst these pieces of information. When people go back to the 1972 NBA Playoffs, they look at this series as a statement by Wilt and a defining moment in the Lakers road to the title. And I’m sure we’re all aware of the Game 6 performance by Wilt, 22/24/9 and a massive 4th quarter comeback in which he played the best defense of his career on Kareem. Jerry West called it "the greatest ball-busting performance I have ever seen."

Moving down to the battle of the PFs, we have another interesting matchup. Bob McAdoo and Elvin Hayes. Luckily, these two met in the playoffs and McAdoo’s MVP season and Snakebites has provided the run down for you. McAdoo took the underdog Braves to a 7th game against the Bullets although the team fell short at the last hurdle.

I’d just like to take this chance to counter Snake’s point about McAdoo’s efficiency dropping in this series. And although it’s a valid argument and Snake points out his high usage, the exact same argument can be applied to Kareem in the matchup against Wilt. Kareem took over 33 shots a game in that series and was shooting below 46%.

And although McAdoo won’t be taking 30+ shots (neither will Kareem I’d assume), I’m going to take McAdoo as far as I can go with him. This was an awesome offensive season for him and he has to be the guy for me. Being able to average 37.5/13.5 in a playoff series is impressive no matter what way you look at it. His offense can be generated in a number of ways (on the perimeter, high post) and I think he’ll benefit having an excellent floor general to work with in Lenny Wilkens. I also wanted to point out my quickness in the frontcourt, Wilt was adept at starting the fastbreak and McAdoo was a guy that loved to roam offensively, never staying in one spot.

And as much as I’d like to discuss McAdoo’s positives in this matchup, Hayes also brings some negatives to the fold. A recent thread brought up some interesting points on why Hayes isn’t looked at as highly as his stats would dictate. Some of these points included his tendency to be a black hole on offense and utilize his turnaround jumper excessively, but mainly they discussed his attitude. Hayes was an extremely strong personality and wasn’t shy about expressing his thoughts. I feel his attitude could even play a role in this series, as Kareem is looked at as much more of a quiet leader, while having someone with such poor intangibles in Hayes can create segregation in the locker room and on the court.

Here’s a bit of further information on Hayes and issues with his attitude posted by TrueLAFan:

Alex Hannum, who was a pretty good guy (and coach) called Hayes "the most despicable person I've ever met in sports" and, after the Bullets won a title, said,
“Hayes was exactly the kind of player I did not want. He's a front-runner. Put him in a situation where there's tension and he does not face it with courage. Give him a challenge and he'll always find some excuse to fold. I still believe it. Even last year, the Bullets won despite him rather than because of him."

And for some statistical backing, here are some awesome stats provided by ElGee from the RPOY thread for 74-75 (of the first round matchup between McAdoo/Hayes):

G1: 35/14 (16-28, 3-5) 5 blocks -- Hayes 20
G2: 36/6 (14-?, 8-13) -- Hayes 34/16
G3: 34/19 (13-35, 8-11) -- Hayes 30
G4: 50/21 (20-32, 11-13) -- Hayes 16
G5: 34/? (11-?, 12-13) -- Mac 2-13 FG's in 1st half. Hayes 46* (19-26, 11-13)
G6: 37/? (14-?, 9-11) -- 9 pts in final 5 min. Said he was "dead tired" after game. Hayes 29.
G7: 36/? (16-? 4-6) -- Hayes 24/9. Chenier career-high 39.

Moving down the lineup, Bob Dandridge vs. Jamaal Wilkes is a matchup in which I feel I have a slight advantage. It’ll be close, but I feel Dandridge’s experience playing on some very good teams (especially with Washington/Milwaukee) as both a 2nd/3rd option will allow him to adjust to any role he needs to play for the team to win. That's not to say Wilkes didn't excel on some very good teams either, but I think many would agree Dandridge's reputation is looked upon as better due to the extent of his contributions to those championship winning teams. Here are a few quotes on Dandridge from Bill Simmons’ book:

“All Dandridge is – a fact known to his peers for a couple of years now – is the best all-round player at his position.” – Sports Illustrated’s Curry Kirpatrick (1979)

The late Ralph Wiley wrote that while Hayes and Unseld were widely remember for winning Washington the ’78 title, “it was the sweet j of Sweet Bobby D, true aficionados recall,” calling him a “grizzled, bearded incommunicado jazz soloist” and adding that Bobby D’s “sweet j ranks with Sam Jones, Dave Bing, Lou Hudson, Jerry West and Joe Dumars.”

Moving on to the backcourts, I feel Snakebites has got an interesting pair of guards that can both score and have tremendous versatility. Smith did a lot of things well, but I feel my more traditional combination of a true PG and a scoring SG gives me an advantage. Snake mentioned that all Walter Davis could do in his rookie year was score and not much else. And score he did, averaging 24 points off 53% shooting. My team is constructed such that Davis is going to have a pretty comfortable role. Operating off screens and scoring from mid range are two areas which Davis really excels at and I don’t see him having a problem shooting over the top over either Monroe/Smith (both of whom he has 3 inches on). Smith was also known as a very good transition scorer, who got up and down the floor extremely quick (which continues the theme of a fast tempo amongst my lineup).

I also feel that although Smith/Monroe is a very versatile backcourt, not having a floor general to slow things down and execute effectively in the half court in crunch time is a concern. Not only that, but these were two guards who were more focused on scoring and ultimately, offensive sets have to be executed such that the ball gets to Kareem as effectively as possible (which I believe my defense can disrupt). To me, having a natural PG with a big like Kareem is just an added bonus, it creates that sense of synergy.

I’m also very confident in Lenny Wilkens defending his position. Here’s a small mention of Wilkens from TrueLAFan when looking at players who would’ve made All Defensive Teams had they have been in place prior to 1969:

And Lenny Wilkins over Hal (Greer), too, in earlier years...Lenny's rep was as much for D as playmaking.

From an intangibles perspective, I also love Wilkens and his Brooklyn toughness. An attitude like that transcends through the entire lineup.

Looking at the benches, I was criticized for my bench players potentially having a hard time adjusting but I strongly believe this isn’t the case. Jo Jo White’s role is to come in and be assertive both from a playmaking and scoring perspective. We all know he’s capable in clutch situations and brings plenty of experience. Chet Walker can bring some scoring and solid man defense, while Satch Sanders is strictly there for defensive purposes (as well as his 8 Championship rings). Smith’s role is simply to be the garbage man, block shots and rebound the ball on both ends. My opponent has a solid defensive bench, but ultimately the bench won’t win this matchup. I could go into further detail about each individual player on my team and my opponents to try and prove that I have an advantage, but I feel the talent levels are similar and we will both get what we want of our benches. Snake wants defense and I want versatility, so that I can reach to my bench when I need Sanders for a key defensive play or Smith when one of my bigs is in foul trouble. Or I could need a clutch basket and look to White/Walker due to a matchup.

All in all I apologize for this essay of a writeup. But its length is indicative of the significance of this matchup. I feel I've constructed this roster very well, maintaining balance and a winning mentality which I believe will lead my squad to a Championship in this era.

[TMACFORMVP]

I don't know what to do.. the deadline was noon today. I don't really want to say we can start voting, because Gremz is my opponent, but at the very least judging can begin for the series with Snake versus bryant. I hope we can get in all the votes by Saturday, so we can move to the Finals and hopefully end that by the start of the week.

The sooner ya'll vote, the sooner we get to draft order, and the sooner to next era. Let's get er done.

[Miller4ever]

I give bryant the nod because although there's an efficiency difference in super-prime Kareem against post-prime Wilt, I think Wilt has enough gas to hold his own and the construction for the rest of team is more solid than Snake's. There's going to be a lot of disagreement, but I think after the premier matchup, bryant holds an advantage.

I will withhold on Gremz/TMAC because he's got timezone crap to worry about. I'll give him roughly 24 hours.

[Gremz]

Im sorry guys, most of all TMAC. As some of you know my mum has been ill and I've been kind of distracted with that all this week. Unfortunately that is priority and as a result I have no time for other things currently. I ad hoped to get a quick one done yesterday but to no avail.

I'll probably still be unavailable for a few more days yet.

[Miller4ever]

Best wishes to your mom.

I'll get in judgement on that matchup as best I can using his previous rotation.

[Snakebites]

Yeah. In times like this a game like this must necessarily take a backseat. Take whatever time you need, and best wishes.

I'll do something similar to what Miller is doing.

[TMACFORMVP]

^^
Yeah, let's do this.

And it's no problem Gremz, a crapload of things come before doing a writeup for a game, ESPECIALLY family. Take as much time as you need. Everyone can vote based on your last writeup.

[BlackIce]

Sorry to hear that Gremz, everything ends up ok with your Mom. You gotta prioritize everyone understands that I think. No easy way to transition to voting here.

Bryant08 vs. Snakebites

I think this battle is won and lost in the frontcourt. Monroe is an elite scorer but Walter Davis is underrated and I give the nod to bryant in the pg battle. Wilt in 72 did a good job against Kareem, still Kareem at his apex is one of the best players ever. He'll get his, but I question whether it will be on his normal godly efficiency and shot attempts. I have a lot of respect for this version of Wilt.

Mcadoo vs Hayes is interesting. I read both writeups a few times, and although Snake makes a great case that Mcadoo needed more touches and shot attempts but as Bryant says "Being able to average 37.5/13.5 in a playoff series is impressive no matter what way you look at it." I agree. Then again Hayes is better defensively and no push over on offense.

Back to Monroe I think he does damage in this series and Snake got great value for him. Eghh.

I vote Bryant08 by a hair. This was the toughest matchup I've every had to vote on. GREAT job to both teams and GL to Bryant next round.

[BlackIce]

TMac vs Gremz

First off, Gremz has some nasty interior defense. Gilmore/Thurmond will make it a tough series for Walton. I think Walton will have some trouble but Walton on Gilmore and Wise on Baylor really slow down Gremz's team ultimately leading to..

Voting for TMac

[Warspite]

TMac: Im not a believer in Thurmond at PF. Hes just not a great fit. the limited range of the 2 bigs just stifles the flow.

Bryant: I love the McAdoo/Wilt combo and Lenny is the ideal leader/PG for this team. Im just not a believer in that KAJ is going to outplay Wilt as much as Mc Adoo does Hayes. Asking Hayes to play really good def on McAdoo means your going to have to give more youches to Hayes on the other end to keep him happy and the dispargement in EFF from Wilt to Hayes becomes a factor regardless of the reduced roles.

[Miller4ever]

Gremz has a great team, but I've learned after having Thurmond at PF a few times now that that doesn't fly, and for good reason. I'm going to go with TMAC.

[bryant08]

Despite Gremz's awesome defense across the board, I have a hard time believing his team will be able to execute on both ends at a level which high enough to make up for the difference in talent between these two teams. TMAC's team is very strong on the defensive end too, with Wise/Walton/Frazier, and I feel that Frazier/Walton duo will be key in getting him the win in this matchup.

[Baller 24]

Sorry for not voting last time around...

Snakebites v. bryant08

I like and dislike both frontcourts. Love Kareem and Wilt but no so much McAdoo or Hayes...though I think McAdoo is a better compliment to this version of Wilt than Hayes is with Kareem. I agree with Snake that Kareem is the best player in the series but there's a little double standard when we criticize McAdoo's 37/13 on high volume/lower efficiency when it applies to in the same thing in the Kareem/Wilt matchup. The perimeter is a really interesting matchup, with each player providing similar roles (Dandridge/Wilkes as defensive wings that can shoot it from mid range, and Monroe/Davis as scorers). I personally like Dandridge more but Monroe more than his counterpart...I don't have a problem with Snakebites two guard lineup but Im not sure about the fit...seems like Monroe/Smith are more offensive/scoring minded while Hayes needs his touches in the frontcourt too..I'd maybe wonder if more a distributing PG would better serve the team. I think Wilkens is real underrated and does this better as a lead sort guard for bryant's team. I think Snakebites talent is better but I don't think it fits as well as bryant's team. The benches don't give me an edge either way, I like how both compliment each others..Snakes being defensive minded and bryant's being more offensively versatile and talented.

This is a real tough matchup IMO. Since I gotta make a decision, I don't know if bryant's team is that inferior in talent that it makes up his better flow/build. For that, I guess I'll go with bryant08

Gremz v. TMAC

As others have noted in this series, Thurmond was a risk at PF. I don't know if that loses him in the series but I also do think he needs more an offensive punch and with TMAC having adequate defensive options to limit such offensive punches or outbursts with an offense more potent..I think in the end TMAC's team can outscore him to win the series. I'll go with TMAC

[TMACFORMVP]

Would like to have voted (or would I?), but I think the votes are substantial enough that we can wrap up voting. Finals writeups will be due Monday.

[Warspite]

Would like to have voted (or would I?), but I think the votes are substantial enough that we can wrap up voting. Finals writeups will be due Monday.

The draft lottery show before the Finals would be a ratings boom.

[SamBone]

sorry guys for not voting, been out mostly the past 2 days.

Gremz, I hope all is well my man! Good luck