ATL -1 Player League Playoffs (Round 2, send me your drops)

[-Kees-]

Here are the matchups:

Conference 1:

A:
JoebobLollipop (-Kidd) VS Miller4ever (-Cowens)

B:
Snakebites (-Moses) VS bastillon (-Durant)

C:
poopdamoop (-Stockton) VS TMACFORMVP (-Barry)

D:
MJallday59 (-Ray Allen) VS DavidStern (-Bird)


Conference 2:

E:
BlackIce (-Drexler) VS Warriorfan (-Magic)

F:
CellarDoor (-Wilt) VS dockingshed (-CP3)

G:
Keeslinator (-Gilmore) VS lukekarts (-Marques)

H:
GrantHill (-Pistol) VS RiotPunch (-Malone)



Start voting! Please give reasoning's if you can.

[bastillon]

Kees vs Lukearts - vote Lukearts
Luke's rebuttal sums up my thoughts pretty well. also: http://bkref.com/tiny/ImywL bottomline Dirk is one of the best defensive rebounders in playoff history and he put up 28/11 on avg as far as I know. Webber doesn't compare, a much lesser player IMO. I liked Luke's defensive strategy - let Erving get his points and stay home with the rest. the big thing is Ben Wallace being a huge liability on offense as Zo is Luke's best defender.

MJallday vs DavidStern - vote MJallday
obviously this matchup is kind of unfair bc Stern paused his best player and MJ paused his #4 pick. I've seen Stern argue that his team is like 2011 Bulls, except you don't have a defensive rebounding like they did. neither Reed or Hawk are able to dominate defensive glass and you're playing against a great team here. Rodman would help obviously but for an unknown reason you didn't write much about him. Hawk is a non factor defensively as well, so that might disturb your entire gameplan.

overall I see MJallday dominating your team offensively because you have nobody to stop Olajuwon. your bigs being undersized, Dream could disembowel them in no time as he always did with smaller defenders. I don't see a huge advantage of that magnitude on your offense. Rose vs Frazier ? Rose isn't a great playoff performer and had his issues against bigger defenders. Hawk might have dominated in the ABA but that's a different sport compared to ATL. without Bird that team is severely lacking in offensive options.

cellar vs docking - vote Docking
I don't see why dock's guys would be a liability off ball. KG is playing high post anyway, Melo has 3pt range, Baron has 3pt range, Battier has 3pt range, Mutombo will go for offensive rebounds and Wade is playing with the ball. spacing is awesome. defensively Melo guarding inefficient Hondo is a much lesser concern than Reggie staying in front of Wade. that's just a blowby in progress. but what really makes it in favor of dock's team is interior defense. of course you got some players who can shoot from the outside but that doesn't mean that KG or Mutombo won't be guarding the painted area. if anything they'll still contest Kemp/Lanier outside as midrange jumpshots are easy to closeout. Garnett has helped and recovered his entire career, why would that be an issue ? more importantly everyone else can rotate to the open guy in midrange area so I don't see it as a concern either. Dock wins based on superior defensive rebounding and far better interior defense.

poopdamoop vs TMAC - vote TMAC
I can't picture neither Lucas or Shaq help out on Jordan on the perimeter. every pick and roll can be a disaster. Lucas is a big time liability on the defensive end and Gasol could do everything he would want to. you can't really stop TMAC defensively either, but poops game plan is pretty good and you can double Shaq off of Wise or Lever. one thing poop didn't take into consideration is that Dwight is gonna foul out pretty quick vs Shaq so his defense will take a big hit. Sampson is not built to even contest Shaq's supremacy in the paint and neither is Gasol. lack of big bodies will hurt poops team enormously and with aforementioned spacing issues I'm giving the series to TMAC's team. Jordan will post great numbers but he won't have a lot of help offensively and they won't get it done defensively with only one legit post defender vs Shaq.

joebop vs Miller - vote JBL
it's incorrect that Kareem used his skyhook from far out. this preconceived notion is inconsistent with the actual results. Kareem scored a vast majority of his points in 8-12 foot area and his efficiency dropped a lot when he was pushed out of the paint. I was arguing about it a lot on realGM with tsherkin, but people still seem to think Kareem would skyhook from 18 feet consisently. I dare you to find a one game like that. all of this matchup comes down to spacing IMO. Unseld not being a scoring threat outside the paint, Hill and Moncrief being a moderate scoring threats from the midrange area, I can't see how Kareem could work in this environment. I also consider both Moncrief and Kareem (PC board for details) to be overrated defensively and I don't think Miller's team JBL's core. Monroe and Harper were good shooters, as were Pettit and Brand from 17 feet. Robinson is a nightmare on pick and roll situations whereas Kareem can't guard a pick to save his life. Miller won't agree with me and this opinion is heavily influenced by my preferences. spacing is to me vital part of efficient offense, and both Moncrief and Kareem aren't as good defensively as it has been established bc their teams played the same defense regardless of their presence on the court.

BlackIce vs Warriorfan - vote Blackice
BI's team is just a way better fit. Barkley-Russell combo compliment each other well, the rest of the team not so well but still that's a fantastic TEAM. Warriorfan has a great collection of talent without defensive anchor or spacing. easiest choice of the night. lack of your best player will do that to you.

GrantHill vs Riot - vote GrantHill
without Karl Malone that team is severely lacking in PF play. Kirilenko is actually a great matchup vs Stoudemire but he can't punish him offensively which is BIG for this matchup. with Oscar orchestrating the offense and no defender to throw at him I can't see it working. strange lineup with Baylor as SG though. West is gonna do whatever he wants to. if Mailman played this would be a blowout.

[-Kees-]

Conference 1:

A:
JoebobLollipop VS Miller4ever
LeBron will be somewhat limited by Hill checking him, and Kareem waiting for him at the basket. Millers D is also extraordinary, and will slow down JBL's team in general. Porter provides a spacer, and Hill/Moncrief can hit from mid-range to give Kareem space. Even if he does get double teams, he really can't be stopped unless he's got more than 2 guys on him, and I don't see JBL's team being able to do that.

B:
Snakebites VS bastillon
I don't see Snake's offense having any problems. Nash is top 3 passing PG all time, and Walton top 3 passing C all time, not to mention the diverse offensive game of Carter, and Dandridge too. On D, I don't see Tmac exploding with Dandridge on him, but he will score. Walton will anchor the D as one of the best all time, and prevent Duncan from taking over as well.

C:
poopdamoop VS TMACFORMVP
Tough choice here. Jordan/Shaq are the 2 greatest primes in the NBA, and it would be interesting to see these guys face off. I think both teams use most of their D to try and slow down the others star, and I think PDM does it a bit better. Dwight will lose down low, but Robertson and Jordan should get some steals too. Spacing is good too, with Ellis and Cassell, and so is defense with Robertson and Jones.

D:
MJallday59 VS DavidStern
No writeup from MJallday, although I might pick him if he got one in, might change this if he does.

Conference 2:

E:
BlackIce VS Warriorfan
Although Tiny may be better on O then Deron, and similar overall, BI still has the 2 best players on the floor in Russell and Barkely. And McHale/Parish/Tiny did win a title together, but Ainge and Bird were great spacers, and Gervin/Cunningham are not, so with a lack of the best player and not great fit, I give this to BlackIce.

F:
CellarDoor VS dockingshed
This matchup comes down to fit VS talent. I dont like dockigns fit offensively, both Wade and Melo like to have the ball, and Melo isn't what I'd call a great play maker, but it could work with Battier/Rice/KG spreading the floor, and an amazing defensive front court. Cellar has great fit, but below average front court and I'm not sure KJ is the guy you want to be doing your main attacking.

H:
GrantHill VS RiotPunch
No writeup for GH, Riot wins by default. Close if GH would've submitted a writeup.

[Miller4ever]

joebop vs Miller - vote JBL
it's incorrect that Kareem used his skyhook from far out. this preconceived notion is inconsistent with the actual results. Kareem scored a vast majority of his points in 8-12 foot area and his efficiency dropped a lot when he was pushed out of the paint. I was arguing about it a lot on realGM with tsherkin, but people still seem to think Kareem would skyhook from 18 feet consisently. I dare you to find a one game like that. all of this matchup comes down to spacing IMO. Unseld not being a scoring threat outside the paint, Hill and Moncrief being a moderate scoring threats from the midrange area, I can't see how Kareem could work in this environment. I also consider both Moncrief and Kareem (PC board for details) to be overrated defensively and I don't think Miller's team JBL's core. Monroe and Harper were good shooters, as were Pettit and Brand from 17 feet. Robinson is a nightmare on pick and roll situations whereas Kareem can't guard a pick to save his life. Miller won't agree with me and this opinion is heavily influenced by my preferences. spacing is to me vital part of efficient offense, and both Moncrief and Kareem aren't as good defensively as it has been established bc their teams played the same defense regardless of their presence on the court.

I can respect that, although I didn't say 18 feet, I just figured people knew that for a post move, 10-12 is very far out.

[RiotPunch]

GrantHill vs Riot - vote GrantHill
without Karl Malone that team is severely lacking in PF play. Kirilenko is actually a great matchup vs Stoudemire but he can't punish him offensively which is BIG for this matchup. with Oscar orchestrating the offense and no defender to throw at him I can't see it working. strange lineup with Baylor as SG though. West is gonna do whatever he wants to. if Mailman played this would be a blowout.

I respect your opinion here, but why is it so vital for someone to "punish" Amar'e offensively? I have great scoring coming from both guard spots and off the bench at PF/C in Bosh and Yao. AK47 taking Stoudemire out of the game really cripples GH's offense.

No defender to throw on The Big O? Isiah Thomas was All Defensive 1st team and had a crazy amount of steals, which will really disrupt Robertson's offensive flow. Also, defense doesn't miss a beat when Rod Strickland comes off the bench and gets physical with Robertson. Don't understand where you're coming from here.

[Warriorfan]

The game is 48 minutes what happens when limited players such Eaton and Kurt Heinrich 20 min are in. The game. They would be able to build a huge lead and spacing is always credited to 40 Oct shooters over 50 Oct effective shooters.

[ThaRegul8r]

No defender to throw on The Big O? Isiah Thomas was All Defensive 1st team and had a crazy amount of steals, which will really disrupt Robertson's offensive flow.

Now, I realize I'm not a judge here, but since when was Isiah First Team All-Defense?

[bastillon]

enjoying the responses

I can respect that, although I didn't say 18 feet, I just figured people knew that for a post move, 10-12 is very far out.

I'm glad

I respect your opinion here, but why is it so vital for someone to "punish" Amar'e offensively? I have great scoring coming from both guard spots and off the bench at PF/C in Bosh and Yao. AK47 taking Stoudemire out of the game really cripples GH's offense.

No defender to throw on The Big O? Isiah Thomas was All Defensive 1st team and had a crazy amount of steals, which will really disrupt Robertson's offensive flow. Also, defense doesn't miss a beat when Rod Strickland comes off the bench and gets physical with Robertson. Don't understand where you're coming from here.

because you could punish Amare in the painted area. your scorers however aren't that efficient and they're about to see Ewing on their way to the basket. Isiah was certainly not the guy you would throw at Oscar, it'd be a complete mismatch. Oscar was a BIG point, a smaller Magic with deadly turnaround jumpshot. Isiah is too little to guard him. Jerry West couldn't guard him. Walt Frazier said he was unstoppable.

I just don't think you understand how great Oscar was. he managed to anchor the best offense in the league playing pick and rolls with Wayne Embry... who was similar talent wise to Big Baby. now he gets to play with Amare who's been the part of the best pick and roll offense in history and it would take really miraculous defensive effort to stop that duo, not from their individual matchups but from all of your team. although I see you have a good defensive team, lack of length and size will hurt you in this case IMO.

[RiotPunch]

enjoying the responses

I can respect that, although I didn't say 18 feet, I just figured people knew that for a post move, 10-12 is very far out.

I'm glad

I respect your opinion here, but why is it so vital for someone to "punish" Amar'e offensively? I have great scoring coming from both guard spots and off the bench at PF/C in Bosh and Yao. AK47 taking Stoudemire out of the game really cripples GH's offense.

No defender to throw on The Big O? Isiah Thomas was All Defensive 1st team and had a crazy amount of steals, which will really disrupt Robertson's offensive flow. Also, defense doesn't miss a beat when Rod Strickland comes off the bench and gets physical with Robertson. Don't understand where you're coming from here.

because you could punish Amare in the painted area. your scorers however aren't that efficient and they're about to see Ewing on their way to the basket. Isiah was certainly not the guy you would throw at Oscar, it'd be a complete mismatch. Oscar was a BIG point, a smaller Magic with deadly turnaround jumpshot. Isiah is too little to guard him. Jerry West couldn't guard him. Walt Frazier said he was unstoppable.

I just don't think you understand how great Oscar was. he managed to anchor the best offense in the league playing pick and rolls with Wayne Embry... who was similar talent wise to Big Baby. now he gets to play with Amare who's been the part of the best pick and roll offense in history and it would take really miraculous defensive effort to stop that duo, not from their individual matchups but from all of your team. although I see you have a good defensive team, lack of length and size will hurt you in this case IMO.

Don't tell me I don't understand Oscar. I am a Milwaukee native and he was a part of our greatest team ever along with Lew Alcindor. You're entitled to your opinions, I just think Isiah would really annoy Robertson with his pesky swipe at the ball defense as well as dominate Oscar on the offensive end just as much with his far superior quickness.

Now, I realize I'm not a judge here, but since when was Isiah First Team All-Defense?

Meant All-NBA 1st team, not defensive. My bad.

[Miller4ever]

You're from Milwaukee? Have you heard of the Green Hay Stackers?

[RiotPunch]

There's actually a bar in Green Bay called the Hay Stack. But yeah, our green and gold is having quite the season, it's been a very fun ride since 2 games before the playoffs last year until now.

[-Kees-]

There's actually a bar in Green Bay called the Hay Stack. But yeah, our green and gold is having quite the season, it's been a very fun ride since 2 games before the playoffs last year until now.

Beat my Eagles because of ONE play

[Miller4ever]

My team is the bizarro Packers. We are called the Dolts, or something like that.

[Miller4ever]

In conference 1 I got TMAC and default winner, and I'll hold off on the other matchup because I will be facing whoever wins.

In conference 2 I got BlackIce, Cellar, luke, and Riot. I think that the team that Riot put together has better spacing and a better bench, while being able to compete in the other areas. I don't think Big O, as much as I love him, can really squash Isiah so easily.

[Warriorfan]

At Kees


'BlackIce VS Warriorfan
Although Tiny may be better on O then Deron, and similar overall, BI still has the 2 best players on the floor in Russell and Barkely. And McHale/Parish/Tiny did win a title together, but Ainge and Bird were great spacers, and Gervin/Cunningham are not, so with a lack of the best player and not great fit, I give this to BlackIce.


FYI Ainge was not on that Championship team with Tiny. Bird was not at that pt a great outside shooter. under 20% from three pt and only one a game . Under 50% as a shooter.


And another FYI for everyone when comparing older players and newer one the three pt shot is over a foot closer now then it was before 95. So the pct were universally lower. So a 30% shooter then is equivelent to a 40% shooter now.

[Miller4ever]

They moved it back out after '97.

[bastillon]

yeah "FYI" line was shortened in 94-97. or 95-97 ?

[lorak]

yeah "FYI" line was shortened in 94-97. or 95-97 ?

From 1994/95 to 1996/97. Three seasons when Kerr, Legler and Schrempf (!) set 3P% records

[Warriorfan]

Conference 1:

A:
JoebobLollipop VS Miller4ever


B:
Snakebites VS bastillon
Bastillion wins the matchups deeper team.


C:
poopdamoop VS TMACFORMVP
I pick poop his team has better offensive efficientcy If you win the PG and C matchup easily you win the game usually.Don't know who Wise is as a player.

D:
MJallday59 VS DavidStern
DavidStern

Conference 2:

E:
BlackIce VS Warriorfan
Abstain
F:
CellarDoor VS dockingshed
CellarDoor Has more all around talent and wins the matchups.

G
Kees vs Lukearts
Lukearts easily wins better all around players and better fit.



H:
GrantHill VS RiotPunch
Riotpunch

[Warriorfan]

For those who don't know older players of who Gervin was. Comparible player Durant. Point is Durant has to try to reach Gervin's level. So I guess Gervin is a spacer if you consider Durant one.

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssport ... 4/31581344