Forgotten Stars R2 - BdeRegt* vs. poopdamoop

[8on]

When I say make your case to me, I do not mean "expect me to sit there and be quiet." I may disagree with you, based on what I perceive to be the laws of physics and strengths or weaknesses of someone's game.

Pelifan, if you've come to this conclusion about the voting process in any way because of me, I do apologize. I'm sorry you're bitter because I make opinions known that you think are crazy or uninformed. That said, you've made no effort to educate me. Others have, but you haven't, if a little bit about Dwight a couple games ago. I don't regret voting, but I will leave these games if there's a certain amount of knowledge I'm supposed to have. I have no problem with that.

I have no direct qualms with you Dant. You've been a great addition to these games eve if I rarely agree with you.

You think Walton was dominant offensively? Show me. Don't scoff.

[pelifan]

When I say make your case to me, I do not mean "expect me to sit there and be quiet." I may disagree with you, based on what I perceive to be the laws of physics and strengths or weaknesses of someone's game.

Pelifan, if you've come to this conclusion about the voting process in any way because of me, I do apologize. I'm sorry you're bitter because I make opinions known that you think are crazy or uninformed. That said, you've made no effort to educate me. Others have, but you haven't, if a little bit about Dwight a couple games ago. I don't regret voting, but I will leave these games if there's a certain amount of knowledge I'm supposed to have. I have no problem with that.

I have no direct qualms with you Dant. You've been a great addition to these games eve if I rarely agree with you.

You think Walton was dominant offensively? Show me. Don't scoff.

i mean you can just do what I do which is search Bill Walton, RealGM. I'm not intelligent enough to have my own basketball opinions. I didn't grow up watching the sport. I just cop them off from the RealGM PC board and research players I don't know about.

Walton is the greatest passing bigman ever and his impact transcends box scores on both ends of the ball, he won MVP despite barely playing in 78 because he was just that good. I would say his peak is a lot like Duncan or Kidd where the stats might not look impressive but his impact clearly is. I've also read threads that suggest Artis Gilmore is overrated by ABA stats. ABA stats suggest GIlmore is a top 5 center all time when in reality he is on the losing argument vs Dwight Howard and is closer in comparison to Zo.

I mean even just looking at RealGM peak projects you can get a lot of composite opinions on the players that show up in these. You can see how much they value Walton.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1404723

[BdeRegt]

When I say make your case to me, I do not mean "expect me to sit there and be quiet." I may disagree with you, based on what I perceive to be the laws of physics and strengths or weaknesses of someone's game.

Pelifan, if you've come to this conclusion about the voting process in any way because of me, I do apologize. I'm sorry you're bitter because I make opinions known that you think are crazy or uninformed. That said, you've made no effort to educate me. Others have, but you haven't, if a little bit about Dwight a couple games ago. I don't regret voting, but I will leave these games if there's a certain amount of knowledge I'm supposed to have. I have no problem with that.

I have no direct qualms with you Dant. You've been a great addition to these games even if I rarely agree with you.

I just often feel sharing my opinion is a waste of breath that isnt going to change anyone's mind or vote. Most of my opinions arent my own, I get them from the PC board.

as for Walton vs Gilmore viewtopic.php?t=1277611

Wow, that is a really bad list in my opinion. I'd have Kareem definitely above Hakeem. Walton and Sabonis way too high in my opinion.

I'd probably have center position like this with tiers separated:

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Shaq
4. Russell
--------
5. Hakeem
--------
6. Robinson
7. Moses
8. McAdoo
9. Walton
10. Gilmore
11. Reed
12. McAdoo
13. Sabonis
---------
14. Cowens
15. Unseld
16. Ewing
------------
A bunch of people in this next tier

[pelifan]

When I say make your case to me, I do not mean "expect me to sit there and be quiet." I may disagree with you, based on what I perceive to be the laws of physics and strengths or weaknesses of someone's game.

Pelifan, if you've come to this conclusion about the voting process in any way because of me, I do apologize. I'm sorry you're bitter because I make opinions known that you think are crazy or uninformed. That said, you've made no effort to educate me. Others have, but you haven't, if a little bit about Dwight a couple games ago. I don't regret voting, but I will leave these games if there's a certain amount of knowledge I'm supposed to have. I have no problem with that.

I have no direct qualms with you Dant. You've been a great addition to these games even if I rarely agree with you.

I just often feel sharing my opinion is a waste of breath that isnt going to change anyone's mind or vote. Most of my opinions arent my own, I get them from the PC board.

as for Walton vs Gilmore viewtopic.php?t=1277611

Wow, that is a really bad list in my opinion. I'd have Kareem definitely above Hakeem. Walton and Sabonis way too high in my opinion.

I'd probably have center position like this with tiers separated:

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Shaq
4. Russell
--------
5. Hakeem
--------
6. Robinson
7. Moses
8. McAdoo
9. Walton
10. Gilmore
11. Reed
12. McAdoo
13. Sabonis
---------
14. Cowens
15. Unseld
16. Ewing
------------
A bunch of people in this next tier

you have Gilmore way overrated

[BdeRegt]

I have no direct qualms with you Dant. You've been a great addition to these games even if I rarely agree with you.

I just often feel sharing my opinion is a waste of breath that isnt going to change anyone's mind or vote. Most of my opinions arent my own, I get them from the PC board.

as for Walton vs Gilmore viewtopic.php?t=1277611

Wow, that is a really bad list in my opinion. I'd have Kareem definitely above Hakeem. Walton and Sabonis way too high in my opinion.

I'd probably have center position like this with tiers separated:

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Shaq
4. Russell
--------
5. Hakeem
--------
6. Robinson
7. Moses
8. McAdoo
9. Walton
10. Gilmore
11. Reed
12. McAdoo
13. Sabonis
---------
14. Cowens
15. Unseld
16. Ewing
------------
A bunch of people in this next tier

you have Gilmore way overrated

I put a lot of weight into MVPs as my list makes obvious I think. I'd have no issue with him in the 6-15 range really. He's also one of the players where my opinion has changed the most from doing these games. I barely knew him when I started but from watching clips and studying his stats he's really grown on me.

I'm also a lot lower on the center position overall than most though and modern rules combined with teams getting smarter has made post ups an awful way to score where I don't think any of these guys will be hugely impactful more than any other.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[parsnips33]

Sorry to break up the discussion but I think I'll throw my vote in

I think I'll go with BDE despite really liking both teams. The Steph-Bird duo is the stuff of dreams (or nightmares for the other team) and I'm not as convinced that Kidd or AI are good defensive counters to Steph. I like Melo in this role and think he can make the most of it despite having a great defender in PG on him.

[GeorgeMarcus]

AI will never get his due respect in T&T games... Near perfect supporting cast in this one. The notion that he was a defensive liability is a myth. Leading the league in steals means nothing to most people, and that's fine, but he also put up better DBPM, DRTG & DWS than Chauncey Billups ever did. And yet Chauncey is widely regarded as an above average defender Other than taking risks in the passing lane, which paid off quite a bit for him, I would love to hear how Iverson was a negative on that end of the court. Stats don't back it up, my long-tenured eye test doesn't back it up, and the misconception that he would get 'bodied' as a perimeter defender is blown way out of proportion. It's not like he had to worry above PG's posting up at the 3pt line.

(Once again, not a knock one you Bde. Your team is great.)

[Snakebites]

:noway: AI will never get his due respect in T&T games... Near perfect supporting cast in this one. The notion that he was a defensive liability is a myth. Leading the league in steals means nothing to most people, and that's fine, but he also put up better DBPM, DRTG & DWS than Chauncey Billups ever did. And yet Chauncey is widely regarded as an above average defender Other than taking risks in the passing lane, which paid off quite a bit for him, I would love to hear how Iverson was a negative on that end of the court. Stats don't back it up, my long-tenured eye test doesn't back it up, and the misconception that he would get 'bodied' as a perimeter defender is blown way out of proportion. It's not like he had to worry above PG's posting up at the 3pt line.

(Once again, not a knock one you Bde. Your team is great.)

I never thought defense was the biggest knock on the guy. It was more his offensive inefficiency and apparent lack of ability to coexist with other good players.

Of course, I'm a Piston fan. My Iverson disrespect will always run deeper than most. We never really recovered from dealing for him.

[GeorgeMarcus]

:noway: AI will never get his due respect in T&T games... Near perfect supporting cast in this one. The notion that he was a defensive liability is a myth. Leading the league in steals means nothing to most people, and that's fine, but he also put up better DBPM, DRTG & DWS than Chauncey Billups ever did. And yet Chauncey is widely regarded as an above average defender Other than taking risks in the passing lane, which paid off quite a bit for him, I would love to hear how Iverson was a negative on that end of the court. Stats don't back it up, my long-tenured eye test doesn't back it up, and the misconception that he would get 'bodied' as a perimeter defender is blown way out of proportion. It's not like he had to worry above PG's posting up at the 3pt line.

(Once again, not a knock one you Bde. Your team is great.)

I never thought defense was the biggest knock on the guy. It was more his offensive inefficiency and apparent lack of ability to coexist with other good players.

Of course, I'm a Piston fan. My Iverson disrespect will always run deeper than most. We never really recovered from dealing for him.

He was lousy on the Nuggets too, but yeah, his stint in Detroit was gross. You won't ever hear me defend post-Philly Iverson. I don't buy that he was only good in the system we built for him; I buy that we capitalized on his value at the right time. He relied on his quickness/athleticism so much, and it all escaped him so quickly.

Sadly I think the trajectory of Iverson's narrative has taken a major toll on his legacy.

[Laimbeer]

Bde advances.