Team-Up Draft SF1: LeBron and LeBrow vs uber33

[ardee]

One member of each team should do the writeup (after discussing it via PM of course). Both may participate in arguments. Please include:

-Rotations/Depth Charts (all your players must play a minimum of 8 minutes)
-Season/FGA for each player/total FGA amount
-Add a write-up why you think you can beat your opponent and move on to the next round. You have 24 hours from this post to include a write-up, otherwise we will vote based on what is in their roster post.

-First to four votes win. Please include a reasoning why you pick one team over the other. Votes with no explanation will not be counted. Once a vote has been made, it can't be changed/deleted.

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[parsnips33]

Players:
Round 1 - 10-11 Dirk Nowitzki - 16.2 FGA
Round 2 - 05-06 Dwyane Wade - 18.8 FGA
Round 3 - 04-05 Paul Pierce - 14.9 FGA
Round 4 - 02-03 Ben Wallace - 6.0 FGA
Round 5 - 15-16 Andre Iguodala - 5.7 FGA
Round 6 - 12-13 Mike Conley - 11.8 FGA
Round 7 - 08-09 Lamar Odom - 9.0 FGA
Round 8 - 10-11 Tyson Chandler - 5.5 FGA

87.9/88.0 FGA
0.1 remaining

Rotation:
PG: Conley (36) / Wade (12)
SG: Wade (28) / Iguodala (10) / Pierce (10)
SF: Iguodala (12) / Pierce (28) / Odom (8)
PF: Nowitzki (38) / Odom (10)
C: Wallace (38) / Chandler (10)

Defensive Matchups: Wade on Lowry, Conley on Miller, Iguodala on Lebron, Wallace on Davis, Dirk on Gasol.

The idea of a one-man Lebron stopper is a myth. We've seen time and time again, the way to defend Bron is with big wings who can pressure his dribble, high level rim protection, and a team of smart defenders who can help and rotate on a moment's notice. I think our team fits the bill. Starting with rim protection, 48 minutes of Ben Wallace and Tyson Chandler speaks for itself. Nothing is coming easy inside. We will throw a combination Iguodala, Pierce, and Odom at Lebron. Even Odom as the weakest link there has the size and savvy to make Bron work. Add in Wade's elite off-ball help instincts and Dirk as another 7 footer roaming the lane and I think we have a defense perfectly suited to slow down Lebron.

As far as AD, I'm confident Wallace's defense will cause him issues. Our front court is BIG (Wallace isn't the tallest but he may play the biggest of all) and AD will not be able to punish our guys like he does the undersized 4s of today's league.

Offensively, Wade should have a huge series. All respect to Bruce Bowen, but he's on his way out of the league at this point and I don't think he's giving prime D Wade any trouble. Unless they want to throw Lebron on him, I don't think they have a single defender who can stay in front of this version of Wade. Dirk has a tougher matchup, but his offense is pretty damn resilient and the two man game with him and Wade will open up opportunities for everyone.

Up to you how you way the benches, but we clearly have a depth advantage. I think one of the great strengths of our team is just how well rounded it is.

May the best team win.

[ardee]

Starters
C: 2013 Marc Gasol (14/8/4). DPOY, All NBA 2nd.
PF: 2018 Anthony Davis (28/11/3). All NBA 1st, All Defense 1st.
SF: 2013 LeBron James (27/8/7). MVP, FMVP, All NBA 1st, All Defense 1st, 41% from 3.
SG: 2008 Bruce Bowen (6/3/1). All Defense 1st, 42% from 3.
PG: 2018 Kyle Lowry (16/6/7). All Star, 40% from 3.

Bench
C: 2009 Chris Andersen (6/6/3). 2nd in the league in blocks.
G: 2000 Reggie Miller (18/3/2). All Star, 41% from 3.
G: 2010 Kyle Korver (7/2/2). All time record 54% from 3.

Rotation

C: Gasol (36) / Birdman (8) / Davis (4)
PF: Davis (34) / LeBron (14)
SF: LeBron (12) / Reggie (24) / Korver (12)
SG: Bowen (36) / Reggie (12)
PG: Lowry (36) / LeBron (12)

Offense:

We will be going to the LeBron/Davis pick and roll here. 2005 Pierce was one of the worst defensive years of his prime and even in his best defensive years he could guard LeBron, while 2016 Iggy only allowed LeBron to have the greatest ever Finals against him (Iggy keeps getting thrown out as a LeBron stopper, and while he was capable of staying with LeBron while he was younger to a certain extent, that is not true by this point of his career). With Iggy playing only 22 minutes anyway, it looks like Pierce is the primary defender. Meanwhile, I agree Wallace is an excellent man defender at the 5 but this was in a different era. He was great against the lumbering post-up centers in the early 2000s, but this is a different scenario. Davis is as dynamic as they come given his combination of skill and athleticism. Not to mention Wallace'll be forced to come out to the three-point line when Davis is setting screens, and most likely have to switch since Pierce isn't going to be physically able to fight through a LeBron/Davis screen. He isn't going to be able to stay in front of LeBron on the perimeter. If he initiates drop coverage then Pierce will get abused.

The pick and roll between these two will be unstoppable. It is worked incredibly well in 2020 when LeBron has dropped off some athletically... well at his zenith here it'll be even better. They have a ton of space to work with given Lowry, Bowen, Reggie and Korver all shoot above 40% from 3 while Marc has a very nice mid-range game and is also an excellent passer (averaged 4 apg). With Wallace being completely occupied by Davis, and Dirk basically not being a rim protector at all, LeBron gets will likely shoot 85% at the rim in this series. Our shooters will constantly be running off screens to have his defenders scrambling off-ball.

Overall, this is an offense that cannot be stopped. It gives LeBron the best roll man you could ask for against a team that has, with weak primary defenders on both, and an army of snipers including the baddest of the bad, Reggie Miller.

Defense

Marc and LeBron finished 1st and 2nd in DPoY voting in 2013. 2018 Davis was 3rd, and 2008 Bowen was 4th. It's very hard to put together a better collection of defensive talent in a game like this.

We have excellent options to guard his two best guys in Bowen on Wade and Davis on Dirk. Ben Wallace isn't contributing much on offense, so Marc will be able to help on Wade's drives and Dirk's postups as well.

I don't know what our opponent is insinuating against Bowen here... Bowen was First-Team All-Defense, 4th in DPoY voting and playing over 30 mpg for the 2nd seed in the Western Conference that year. Doesn't sound like he was "out of the league" by any stretch of the imagination. His defensive RAPM was higher in 2008 than in 2003 and his stats are all in line with 2003 as well. He will be an excellent cover for Wade.

We'll put LeBron on Pierce, whom he routinely erases in the Playoffs. Reggie will get a few minutes on Pierce too, and I don't expect too much damage done given the ball is going through Wade and Dirk mainly anyway. Lowry will be on Conley whom I think he is simply a better version of on both ends.

Overall

It quite simply comes down to us having excellent covers for his top two guys, while he has none for ours. They may tout their depth but we are better at 3 positions in the starting lineup with one being a wash (PF), and them at one (SG), and we have Reggie freaking Miller, the best player on a Finals team averaging 24 ppg on 60% TS in the Playoffs, coming off OUR bench. How's that for depth?

[Blazer50]

I feel like Ardee has too much in the front court - and really matches up well with Bowen taking on D Wade. People forget Lowry was a great defender initially and will be a solid match up for the best Conley you can throw at him. Dirks amazing - transformed the game and Anthony Davis came out the new prototype. stretch 4/5 that Dirk defined.

I have to go with Ardee in this round

[Fadeaway_J]

I think the AD factor will be key in this one. As I said in another recent matchup, AD is one of the very few bigs that I feel could defend peak Dirk relatively effectively. On the other end, having Ben as the primary AD defender is tough because while I don't doubt Ben can hang with him individually, it also makes it harder for him to be the omnipresent rim protector than uber33 needs against LeBron and Co. Any time he comes over to help, there is a real danger of a lob, dump-off, or putback for AD behind him.

Vote: LeBron and LeBron

[wackbone]

I like LeBron+AD more than Wade+Dirk, and I like their supporting casts more. I just like the talent math more with their team.

Vote: LeBron and LeBrow

[uberhikari]

Everything else aside, it amazes me that people continue to think 2008 Bruce Bowen was an elite defender, even after Kobe completely fried him in the 2008 WCF. People really seem to believe that 36 year old, unatheletic Bruce Bowen can guard someone with all-time atheleticism and arguably the best first step in league history.

[Dr Positivity]

I'll go with the deeper team in uber33. I think their matchups on Lebron and Davis are fine. I agree with him that Bowen downgrade hurts. Birdee has the 3 worst players in the series in my opinion. Vote uber33

[euroleague]

I like Wade/Dirk better than LBJ/AD. The supporting cast on uber33 is also better. Lastly, I don't like 24 minutes of Reggie Miller against Paul Pierce.

Vote uber33

[LA Bird]

I'll just step in here and stop this nonsense about Bruce Bowen being old and washed up. The Spurs were a top 3 defense in both regular season and playoffs and Bowen was selected to first team All D for the 5th consecutive season. He wasn't just coasting on his defensive reputation either since 08 Bowen had a +3.0 DRAPM. By that metric, it is the second highest season of Bowen's career and puts him at third in the league among wing defenders for that season just barely behind Battier and Artest. uber33 can slander him all they want but 08 Bowen was very much still a top defender. One playoff series against Kobe who is not even in this matchup shouldn't change anything.

Also, Bowen is a better perimeter defender than anybody on uber33's team so they should probably worry about how to guard peak Miami LeBron first before trying to deflect and criticize Bowen's defense on Wade.

[uberhikari]

I'll just step in here and stop this nonsense about Bruce Bowen being old and washed up. The Spurs were a top 3 defense in both regular season and playoffs and Bowen was selected to first team All D for the 5th consecutive season. He wasn't just coasting on his defensive reputation either since 08 Bowen had a +3.0 DRAPM. By that metric, it is the second highest season of Bowen's career and puts him at third in the league among wing defenders for that season just barely behind Battier and Artest. uber33 can slander him all they want but 08 Bowen was very much still a top defender. One playoff series against Kobe who is not even in this matchup shouldn't change anything.

Also, Bowen is a better perimeter defender than anybody on uber33's team so they should probably worry about how to guard peak Miami LeBron first before trying to deflect and criticize Bowen's defense on Wade.

1. Kobe fried Bowen in the 2008 WCF. That's real life. We have a real life example of him trying to defend a peak wing and getting dominated. And it's at least arguable that '06 Wade > '08 Kobe. I've gone back to watch parts of that '08 WCF and Kobe was blowing by him with regularity.

2. 36 year old Bruce Bowen is not stopping or even slowing down someone like '06 Wade with peak atheleticism and arguably the best first step in NBA history. I don't know why people believe this.

3. The reason why Bowen can have that DRAPM is partially because of Duncan. DRAPM is NOT a rankings list. It's getting really irritating when people constantly use it this way. DRAPM is largely a lineup tool. It is NOT a context-less stat that just automatically tells you that player A > player B. That's not how it works.

[MadNESS]

Both teams fit together very well.
Both teams are very good defensively.
Both teams are very very deep.
Both teams can shoot it.
Both teams are difficult to defend.

I hate doing this, but I’ll go with the Lebron factor here.

Lebron and LeBrow win in a tough 7 games.

[Smash3]

LeBron and LeBrow advances

[uberhikari]

This Bruce Bowen discussion has actually made me go back to re-watch parts of the 2008 WCF. I was never a Kobe fan, but watching him play, and how good he was. Then watching him hit that game winner over Bruce Bowen. And then the interview with Craig Sager... I've got tears in my eyes. It's so hard to believe they're really gone.

[uberhikari]

Good luck LeBron + LeBrow.

[MadNESS]

This Bruce Bowen discussion has actually made me go back to re-watch parts of the 2008 WCF. I was never a Kobe fan, but watching him play, and how good he was. Then watching him hit that game winner over Bruce Bowen. And then the interview with Craig Sager... I've got tears in my eyes. It's so hard to believe they're really gone.

He was the man

[ardee]

This Bruce Bowen discussion has actually made me go back to re-watch parts of the 2008 WCF. I was never a Kobe fan, but watching him play, and how good he was. Then watching him hit that game winner over Bruce Bowen. And then the interview with Craig Sager... I've got tears in my eyes. It's so hard to believe they're really gone.

You've got me in my feels now. I remember that series so well. I was a kid, my first year as a serious fan. We were down 65-45 in game 1, Kobe had 2 in the first half, then we came back and won 89-85 with Kobe scoring 25 in the second, finished with 27-9-5.

Second game we murdered them, 101-71. I can't remember being that excited until we beat the Celtics on Christmas Day later that year.

Lost game 3 because of Manu finally having a good game and every non-Kobe Laker wetting the bed. Lemme see... 103-84 Spurs I believe.

Game 4 was 93-91 Lakers. Don't remember too many other details.

Game 5 was 100-92, Kobe scored 39 and wiped them off the map. I remember this particular 3 he made in the 4th after which point the Spurs just gave up and I knew we were going to win.

And yeah I remember pretty much every score and a lot of stats from the Lakers 08-10 Playoffs off the top of my head haha. My formative basketball years.

[ardee]

This Bruce Bowen discussion has actually made me go back to re-watch parts of the 2008 WCF. I was never a Kobe fan, but watching him play, and how good he was. Then watching him hit that game winner over Bruce Bowen. And then the interview with Craig Sager... I've got tears in my eyes. It's so hard to believe they're really gone.

He was the man

[Fadeaway_J]

This Bruce Bowen discussion has actually made me go back to re-watch parts of the 2008 WCF. I was never a Kobe fan, but watching him play, and how good he was. Then watching him hit that game winner over Bruce Bowen. And then the interview with Craig Sager... I've got tears in my eyes. It's so hard to believe they're really gone.

You've got me in my feels now. I remember that series so well. I was a kid, my first year as a serious fan. We were down 65-45 in game 1, Kobe had 2 in the first half, then we came back and won 89-85 with Kobe scoring 25 in the second, finished with 27-9-5.

Second game we murdered them, 101-71. I can't remember being that excited until we beat the Celtics on Christmas Day later that year.

Lost game 3 because of Manu finally having a good game and every non-Kobe Laker wetting the bed. Lemme see... 103-84 Spurs I believe.

Game 4 was 93-91 Lakers. Don't remember too many other details.

Game 5 was 100-92, Kobe scored 39 and wiped them off the map. I remember this particular 3 he made in the 4th after which point the Spurs just gave up and I knew we were going to win.

And yeah I remember pretty much every score and a lot of stats from the Lakers 08-10 Playoffs off the top of my head haha. My formative basketball years.

My recollection is that Bowen actually defended Kobe pretty well in that series. He took away a lot of the easy stuff (layups, FTs, threes), but Kobe just murdered him with midrange jumpers.

That was such a fun season up until... You know.

[parsnips33]

This Bruce Bowen discussion has actually made me go back to re-watch parts of the 2008 WCF. I was never a Kobe fan, but watching him play, and how good he was. Then watching him hit that game winner over Bruce Bowen. And then the interview with Craig Sager... I've got tears in my eyes. It's so hard to believe they're really gone.

You've got me in my feels now. I remember that series so well. I was a kid, my first year as a serious fan. We were down 65-45 in game 1, Kobe had 2 in the first half, then we came back and won 89-85 with Kobe scoring 25 in the second, finished with 27-9-5.

Second game we murdered them, 101-71. I can't remember being that excited until we beat the Celtics on Christmas Day later that year.

Lost game 3 because of Manu finally having a good game and every non-Kobe Laker wetting the bed. Lemme see... 103-84 Spurs I believe.

Game 4 was 93-91 Lakers. Don't remember too many other details.

Game 5 was 100-92, Kobe scored 39 and wiped them off the map. I remember this particular 3 he made in the 4th after which point the Spurs just gave up and I knew we were going to win.

And yeah I remember pretty much every score and a lot of stats from the Lakers 08-10 Playoffs off the top of my head haha. My formative basketball years.

Man this is what I love about basketball