BaNT Semi-final: matchups & votes (merged)

[dockingsched]

Welcome to the BaNT semi-finals!

the writeup period for this matchup will end Saturday night when the clock strike midnight. All users may pose questions/concerns as well. After that, the voting period will begin where all participants may vote for the winner. That will end Wednesday night, when the clock strikes midnight.

* all times eastern

Vintage36

Ray Allen
Andrea Bargnani
Chauncey Billups
Nick Collison
Antonio Daniels
Eric Gordon
Nene Hilario
Emeka Okafor
Paul Pierce
Joe Smith
Jason Terry
Gerald Wallace

vs.

dcash4

Shane Battier
Mike Conley
Devin Harris
Allen Iverson
Andrei Kirilenko
Roger Mason
Andres Nocioni
Dirk Nowitzki
Greg Oden
Shaquille O'Neal
Michael Redd
Kurt Thomas

[dockingsched]

Welcome to the BaNT semi-finals!

the writeup period for this matchup will end Saturday night when the clock strike midnight. All users may pose questions/concerns as well. After that, the voting period will begin where all participants may vote for the winner. That will end Wednesday night, when the clock strikes midnight.

* all times eastern

Shaqsux

LaMarcus Aldridge
Andrew Bynum
Erick Dampier
Boris Diaw
Ben Gordon
LeBron James
Jason Kidd
Mike Miller
Joakim Noah
Travis Outlaw
J.R. Smith
Maurice Williams

vs.

CellarDoor

Bruce Bowen
Caron Butler
Chris Duhon
Tim Duncan
Brendan Haywood
Amir Johnson
Kevin Martin
Steve Nash
Mehmet Okur
Mickael Pietrus

[VintaGe36]

We all know he set this up to see who the best Trade board Moderator is....

[CellarDoor]

It doesn't matter. We all know who the best trade board poster is. I've never lost to Cash.

[CellarDoor]

First I want to say I've had some fun with this and am enjoying the competition. May the best team win.

And for what it's worth, in the event this is Shaqsux's last round, I want to commend you on doing a fantastic job after the previous GM made some serious mis-steps early in the draft.

I am projecting a depth chart for the Lebron's for my initial write-up. I will alter it if need be.

Jason Kidd/Mo Williams
Ben Gordon/JR Smith
Lebron James/Mike Miller/Travis Outlaw
Lamarcus Aldridge/Boris Diaw
Andrew Bynum/Erik Dampier/Joakim Noah

vs.

Steve Nash(38)/Chris Duhon(10)
Kevin Martin(38)/Mickael Pietrus(10)
Bruce Bowen(18)/Caron Butler(30)
Tim Duncan(38)Memhet Okur(10)/Amir Johnson
Brendan Haywood(28)/Memhet Okur(20)

Looking at these two teams two things jump out to me, Shaqsux has a ton of depth, and I think Duncan and Okur are about the best combo ever (random I know)
Shaq has surrounded Lebron with two shooters in the starting 5 (Gordon, Aldridge), he's got an anchor in the middle, and he's got solid-good defense at three positions in the starting 5 and two solid-good defensive back-ups. When I look at this team, I really see a similar build to what Mascot's Kobe-lead team used. Good job man.

Offense:
When I'm on offense I can only assume that Kidd is going to attempt to check Martin which leaves Gordon on Nash. I really feel like I have a huge advantage at guard in these scenarios for two reasons: Gordon doesn't defend Nash well. He never has for whatever reason which I've always found odd, but he gives Nash too much space and doesn't keep pursuing when Nash dribble drives and comes back out. The second reason is the Kidd v. Martin match-up. Kidd used to be a terrific all around defender, now he's a very good defender against your bruising guards (like Billups), people with KMart's combination of quickness and size can give him fits though. Also, given KMarts FTA/game, they're going to NEED that depth when he starts getting guards in foul trouble.

At SF I've went with Bowen starting. The guy can still play defense and get under your skin, he spreads the floor more for Nash, and it gives Caron a chance to operate against the back-up SF for about 10-15mpg depending on Lebron's mpg. Bowen won't be expected to score, but his addition forces Lebron to honor his shot and detracts from his help defense.

At PF is Tim Duncan. Similar to Lebron on offense, when Duncan wants to get a bucket you're not going to have a prayer of stopping him.Aldridge is at best an average defender, especially as a man defender forcing either a switch to Bynum or double teams. Unfortunately it's difficult to tell exactly how good Bynum is against Duncan since he doesn't guard him too often, but considering no one stops Duncan and hardly anyone even slows him down, I feel comfortable in saying all that switch will do is give Haywood large size advantage when finishing.

At C is Brendan Haywood. Similar to Bowen he's primarily in here to provide a defensive lift, but he's underrated on offense due to the lack of touches one gets when playing with Arenas, Butler, and Jamison. He's never someone you want to rely on for a basket, but as Vintage can attest, he's got post moves, a solid short range jumper, and works well around the hoop on offense. At best, he's someone you can't leave alone. And given the loaded nature of these teams, having someone who doesn't demand the ball is paramount.

Defense:
At guards I will use Nash on Gordon and Martin on Kidd. The thing to realize (and I'm helping my opponent here) is that Gordon is going to get his. As a Bulls fan, I can't tell you how many times he drives into two to three defenders and I'm screaming at my tv for him to pass it, then he launches a shot from the elbow and drains it. Whether he's guarded by Battier or Jameer Nelson, he's going to score. That being said, for every time he puts the ball on the floor, he's GOING to make a stupid turnover every few times too. Kidd is obviously not much of an offensive threat, but Martin eliminates any chance of posting up and shooting over him, so I don't suspect he'll be doing much other than spotting up. In which case KMart will play a loose sort of zone off of him and help onto Lebron.

At SF they've got Lebron. There's not a lot you can do here but make him work and try to frustrate him into long jumpers. I think with Bowen and Butler, another good defender, keeping up on him with Haywood AND Duncan behind him we're going to see a lesser series than most expect from Lebron. Not as bad as he was against Boston last year, but the team concept of defense on him and having two great defenders down low is the key to the formula.

At PF you've got LMA, a very solid offensive player to be sure, and with a nice jumper no less. I see him playing a role similar to big Z in this series where he's going to be screening and then running to a spot on the floor. To be honest, given our efforts to contain Lebron, which I believe will be successful, I'm willing to live with Aldridge getting free once in a while for a jumper. Do not expect a big series from him though. I would suspect he'll score right in line with his averages because when he's NOT being screened he won't get anything in Iso against TD, Haywood, or even Okur, who defends finesse bigs exceptionally well (see Ming, Yao 2007 playoffs. You know what I'm talking about Shaq!)

At C is Andrew Bynum, who's not shown the ability to do much of anything on the offensive side this year. It could be argued that that is due to lack of touches, which I will grant. But where are his touches coming from here? Bear in mind he'll almost always have either TD or Haywood on him too, neither of which can be pushed around. Look for an especially quiest series from Bynum.

Bench:
Shaq's bench vs. my real bench is in Shaq's favor, no question, but don't just look at names and assume he runs away with it. Mike Miller has been having a disappointing season to say the least, JR Smith can't get off the bench in Denver half the time, and Dampier, while solid defensively, is still not THAT great. Given that my bench guys in general are playing low minutes, the advantage will be negligible. Pietrus and Smith are fairly even and scarily similar players, except that Pietrus isn't prone to chucking. my big man rotation is pretty easily ahead of Shaq's, and Caron playing with the second unit with Miller or Smith guarding him for 10-15 minutes a night is going to be a huge advantage on my end where Duhon is a solid defender and can keep Mo in front of him.

Summary:
Instead of my philosophy with Kobe where I tried to limit his teammates, I'm going straight for Lebron whose jumpshot is still suspect. With two dominant towers in the paint stopping his drives and two above average man defenders on him as well as the team shading towards him he's going to be hard pressed to carry a team. I'll take my chances with Jason Kidd and Andrew Bynum being relied upon to score.



Side note-- What is this crap? I have to get through Wade, Kobe, and Lebron just to get to the finals? Seems sort of anti-climactic to have the finals in the first three rounds only to had TD destroy a moderator.

[dockingsched]

its going to take a good write up to convince me not to type "lebron in 7". eagerly awaiting.

[VintaGe36]

I'm 2-0 in trade contest that I compete in. GTFO

[Gremz]

I'm enjoying the argument above more than the matchups so far.

[VintaGe36]

Ask SS_Maverick(he's Jhydros or something now) about how competitions against me go.

[CellarDoor]

Really you've got to be kidding. Anyways, as I get free time today at work we'll get to it.

Edit: if you still go Lebrons in 7 I'm calling you a chicken. You just don't want to face me!!!!

[CellarDoor]

You've never ran into me in one. I'm undefeated in trade tourneys as well. When one of us competes the other seems to be judging, heh.

[CellarDoor]

Oh yeah, and as to the competition itself I have a serious question for Vintage:

What are your plans to try and contain Dirk? He's awful talented and versatile for either Nene or Okafor.

[roc]

#1knicksfan in 6

[roc]

no worries both will taste defeat.

I still am unsure who will be the runner up though...

[CellarDoor]

#1knicksfan in 6

voting period hasn't begun. And you could at least wait for him to post a write-up. Do you really think his team is miles better than mine? I'm not of the mind it's better than mine at all.

[Gremz]

Yeah well I've managed to lose first round of every Trade tournament and now BaNT. 100% strike rate.

[dockingsched]

depth chart:

harris (36) / mason (12) / conley
redd (30) / iverson (18)
battier (32) / nocioni (12) / kirlilenko (4)
nowitzki (36) / kirilenko (12)
o'neal (34) / oden (14) / thomas

defense: at pg i have one of the better pg defenders in the league matching up against their team floor leader, chauncey billups. mason will also be able to use his size to combat billups. at sg redd will defend allen, so he will not have to defend on the ball too often. at backup sg iverson will guard a similarly undersized sg. defending his best offensive threat will be the premier wing defender in the league, shane battier. guarding his two big men will be dirk and shaq, who should not have too much trouble. at backup pf i have kirilenko who can matchup against any athleticism he puts out there at the 4. at backup center i decided to go with oden, who will be able to out muscle any of his back up bigs, and matchup against his starting bigs (who's post offense won't isn't refined enough to draw too many oden fouls).

offense: my offense will probably run through some of shaq and some of dirk. my opponent simply doesn't have anyone who can matchup against dirk. everyone he has is either to small, or too slow. okafor, or nene, will get seriously exposed. shaq will give his post defenders all they can handle, and like always, the shooters surrounding them are perfect complimentary players. harris and iverson will keep the guards working all game. during bench time, oden will be able to grab rebounds at will with players like andrea bargnani or joe smith trying to box him out.

[Sports Arsenal]

Well, first I want to thank all of you guys that have helped me learn how to be successful in these games.
DCash, MJAllday,Cellar, just to name a few. I really appreciate it, it made these games a lot funner.

And here comes the part I am not so good at. The write up.


This is going to be a great match. Cellar has the best team that I have had to match up with thus far.
The lineup:

Bynum(26)/Diaw(14)/Dampier(8)/Noah(only in foul trouble situation)
Aldridge(29)/Diaw(12)/Bynum(7)Noah(only in foul trouble situation)
Lebron(39)/Mike Miller(9)/Outlaw
Ben Gordon(20)/Mike Miller(18)/JR Smith(10)
Kidd(36)/Mo Williams(12)


Offense:
With all repects granted. Cellars write up was very inaccurate. His defense doesn't have the capability to contain Lebron. Bowen WAS a great defender. Butler is a decent to possibly good defender. Kevin Martin coming off of Kidd will be a mistake, Cellars coaching staff will quickly recognize that and Lebron will be left back at single coverage. At any effect, no tandem of defense short of Battier+Artest is going to hold Lebron. Lebron will get his. We will be running the ball which will be very hard for Duncan to handle. Neither Duncan or Haywood will be able to come out and guard Diaw behind the arc (currently shooting 44% from behind the arc with Charlotte). However Okur can come out to guard Diaw. This team is probably the most capable team in the competition for running the pick and roll. Which will be vital when we slow it down for a half court game. Lebron is surrounded with people capable of shooting the 3 with a high percentage. See: Diaw, Gordon, Miller, MoWilliams, JR Smith. Surrounding Lebron with shooters is the most successful way to run a team with Lebrons skill set. Kidd develops most plays from behind the arc. Kevin Martin will struggle as most do in slowing his play making skills because of the space that they give Kidd while behind the arc. Duncan and Haywood occupy too much of the same space. Anytime they are on the court we will be able to pop up jumpers without anyone to contest it.

Summary: Lebron will get his. Bynum+Aldridge will be succesful against Duncan+Haywood due to similar styles of play. Kidd will continue to be a stellar floor general with one of the most dynamic players of all time. The versatility of this team and the army of shooters around Lebron is going to make the difference in this series.


Defense:
Kidd will man Nash and really hinder his game, Nash struggles seriously against bigger, bulkier guards. While both are crafty veterans, Kidd laying on Nash the whole game is going to wear the canadian out. Also Nash playing 38mpg, compared to his career 31mpg we feel will work to our advantage. The combination of a stronger guard for 7 minutes more than he is used to, will hinder his game. While Haywood and Duncan are both in the game I feel like this is where we will have our greatest advantage to guarding Duncan. Haywood is an offensive liability who makes most of his points off of garbage put backs. Bowen does not stretch your offense Cellar, he is an offensive liability in this type of game. 3ppg is hardly something we will focus any energy on. As normal, we will play alot of rotation type defense, or zoning.

Summary: While this is a good team that I am facing, the offense is limited when it comes to styles of play. When I can't defend something with speed, I have the capability to defend with size, or to play a zone style defense.

Bench: Lets face it, It really doesn't matter who is there at tip off, if they are only playing 18 minutes and there back up is playing 30 minutes. The sheer fact that my opponent had to say "Don't just look at the names, and assume he runs away with it" should catch your eye. My bench is much stronger than my opponents. See: All Star PG playing back up vs. Chris Duhon

Cellar, Okur+Duncan best combo ever? Seriously bro? I like the attempt though.

All and all, Cellar you have put together a great team again. Hopefully, we don't see a back to back champ though. J/K ... may the best team win... Good luck bro.

[CellarDoor]

Well, first I want to thank all of you guys that have helped me learn how to be successful in these games.
DCash, MJAllday,Cellar, just to name a few. I really appreciate it, it made these games a lot funner.

Not a problem. Always like to talk basketball.

Offense:
With all repects granted. Cellars write up was very inaccurate. His defense doesn't have the capability to contain Lebron. Bowen WAS a great defender. Butler is a decent to possibly good defender. Kevin Martin coming off of Kidd will be a mistake, Cellars coaching staff will quickly recognize that and Lebron will be left back at single coverage. At any effect, no tandem of defense short of Battier+Artest is going to hold Lebron. Lebron will get his. We will be running the ball which will be very hard for Duncan to handle. Neither Duncan or Haywood will be able to come out and guard Diaw behind the arc (currently shooting 44% from behind the arc with Charlotte). However Okur can come out to guard Diaw. This team is probably the most capable team in the competition for running the pick and roll. Which will be vital when we slow it down for a half court game. Lebron is surrounded with people capable of shooting the 3 with a high percentage. See: Diaw, Gordon, Miller, MoWilliams, JR Smith. Surrounding Lebron with shooters is the most successful way to run a team with Lebrons skill set. Kidd develops most plays from behind the arc. Kevin Martin will struggle as most do in slowing his play making skills because of the space that they give Kidd while behind the arc. Duncan and Haywood occupy too much of the same space. Anytime they are on the court we will be able to pop up jumpers without anyone to contest it.

So...nobody but Artest+Battier can stop Lebron...I guess the 36% Lebron shot against Boston in the ECF last year was a mirage...? Bowen is still very much a good defender. I'm not trying to purport he's the best anymore, but he's very good in limited minutes (like...20), Caron Butler is as good a defender as Pierce, especially when he's not the focal point of an offense like he's had to do this year. As to running the ball being hard for Duncan, you're right. All those years where the Suns killed them in the playoffs. Wait, that's backwards.
As for Diaw, are you really trying to break down a defensive argument with a 14mpg back-up who will, oh by the way, be matched up specifically WITH Okur?
--semi-side note-- how do you intend to play Lebron/Kidd off the ball? Both have always been completely ball dominant.

Ugh...Duncan and Haywood operating too much in the same space? Right, that worked horribly for Duncan and Robinson on defense too...

Summary: Lebron will get his. Bynum+Aldridge will be succesful against Duncan+Haywood due to similar styles of play. Kidd will continue to be a stellar floor general with one of the most dynamic players of all time. The versatility of this team and the army of shooters around Lebron is going to make the difference in this series.

Lebron will get his points, yes, but I maintain that with two excellent defenders guarding the paint and two above average defenders playing him he's going to be much more inefficient than you'd like him to be.

Defense:
Kidd will man Nash and really hinder his game, Nash struggles seriously against bigger, bulkier guards. While both are crafty veterans, Kidd laying on Nash the whole game is going to wear the canadian out. Also Nash playing 38mpg, compared to his career 31mpg we feel will work to our advantage. The combination of a stronger guard for 7 minutes more than he is used to, will hinder his game. While Haywood and Duncan are both in the game I feel like this is where we will have our greatest advantage to guarding Duncan. Haywood is an offensive liability who makes most of his points off of garbage put backs. Bowen does not stretch your offense Cellar, he is an offensive liability in this type of game. 3ppg is hardly something we will focus any energy on. As normal, we will play alot of rotation type defense, or zoning.

If you play a rotating zone, this series will be a lot shorter than I thought.

Nash struggled when defended by big PGs? Did you look at any stats for that? Against Dallas and Denver, (Kidd and Billups) Nash is averaging a double double on over 50% shooting...
And you completely left out your SG defense...probably because as a Bulls fan I know first hand if you try and play Gordon on Martin you're going to get shredded. Not switching Kidd and Gordon on D will be the biggest misstep of the tourney as you're playing into BOTH guard's strengths there.

By the way, Nash averages over 36mpg in the POs including his first years in Phoenix in the 90s where he played sparingly in the POs. You think he can't handle 38mpg?

Haywood is most certainly not a liability on offense. He's able to handle passes and finish around the basket and even has some post moves. The reason you don't see high point totals is because he plays with this guy...you might've heard of him. Arenas? Also with AJ and Butler. Playing with three 20ppg scorers will hinder your own point totals in a hurry. As for Bowen not stretching an offense and referencing his 3ppg. He's playing limited minutes in order to BE SAVED FOR THE PLAYOFFS right now, so yeah, he's not scoring much. Also: Steve Kerr never once averaged over 10ppg, maybe not even 9ppg, I guess he can't stretch an offense either?

Bench: Lets face it, It really doesn't matter who is there at tip off, if they are only playing 18 minutes and there back up is playing 30 minutes. The sheer fact that my opponent had to say "Don't just look at the names, and assume he runs away with it" should catch your eye. My bench is much stronger than my opponents. See: All Star PG playing back up vs. Chris Duhon

Oh please. I said you've got the advantage, but when you're trying to play it as a large advantage when my TRUE bench players are getting a total of 38 minutes you're not getting that advantage very often. And it's quite obvious that Bowen isn't my starter caliber character, so cherry picking one example out of my lineup isn't going to bolster an argument.

[CellarDoor]

No write-up vintage? White flag time?