SA shooting guards and DRPM

Post #1 » by **GeorgeMarcus** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 5:37 am

Kyle Anderson, Jonathan Simmons, and Danny Green have consistently ranked #'s 1-3 in terms of DRPM among SGs this year. So what gives? Do they somehow benefit statistically playing alongside Kawhi? Is it Pop's system? Is it an accurate measure of their defensive capabilities? Just seems crazy to me and I wonder if I'm missing something.

blabla · Post #2 » by **blabla** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:11 pm

Kawhi's ON/OFF defensive numbers are terrible this season, so it looks like he took a step back.
Simmons has an incredibly good defensive ON/OFF (-15), so his rank is not surprising
Green and Anderson get lots of blocks (1.0, 0.8 per 36, resp.) and have stellar TO numbers (1.2, 1.0)

They probably benefit from not having to facilitate too often (although their AST-to-TO ratio is also decent/good). Also, they get lots of minutes but aren't shooting a ton, so the system (to a degree) assumes they get minutes for another reason (->defense).

Last but not least, the competition at SG isn't too fierce this season, when it comes to defense

inDe_eD · Post #3 » by **inDe_eD** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:36 pm

doubleC 0725 wrote:Kyle Anderson, Jonathan Simmons, and Danny Green have consistently ranked #'s 1-3 in terms of DRPM among SGs this year. So what gives? Do they somehow benefit statistically playing alongside Kawhi? Is it Pop's system? Is it an accurate measure of their defensive capabilities? Just seems crazy to me and I wonder if I'm missing something.

San Antonio is an oddity right now. I've been "defending" Kawhi's defense all year, even though the stats say he's the worst defender on the team. I've watched every game at least once, and knew that this wasn't true, and that Kawhi was still quite excellent on D, but couldn't figure out why the stats hated him so much. Turns out, I'm not the only person perplexed by this, here's Matt Moore of CBS:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kawhi-leonard-is-so-great-at-defense-hes-actually-hurting-the-spurs/

So we've reached an impasse. We know Leonard is an elite defender. We know he's still locking up whoever he is facing. So how do we explain these numbers, the somewhat small sample size notwithstanding?
Is it possible that Leonard is, in fact, too good a defender?

His premise is that teams are quite simply removing whoever Kawhi is defending from the offense altogether, effectively turning the game into 4 on 4 on offense for the opposition, against an otherwise lousy Spurs' defensive lineup.

Check out the article, it's quite substantiated (very Zach Lowe-esque). If you don't have time to read/watch the whole thing, here's some more interesting observations:

Takeaways
This is not rocket science: "Hey, why don't we not give the ball to the guy guarded by a two-time defensive player of the year?" That's not exactly reinventing the wheel, and some of it is as simple as "some plays the guy you're defending is not involved," but it is notable. The biggest reason this stands out is because, unlike some other defenders like Draymond Green who can switch onto any frontcourt or backcourt player, or Rudy Gobert, who will always make his impact known with his shot blocking and rim protection, Leonard can't be maximized because of his teammates' limitations. From a broader league perspective, that's my biggest takeaway: If you're getting an early read on Defensive Player of the Year, Leonard is not making as much of an impact this year as other players are.

You'd think taking away one of the opponent's offensive players completely would be a blessing, but in the case of the Spurs, it almost seems that because the rest of their defenders aren't quite good enough, Leonard may be too good for his own good.

Post #4 » by **GeorgeMarcus** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:28 am

inDe_eD wrote:
doubleC 0725 wrote:Kyle Anderson, Jonathan Simmons, and Danny Green have consistently ranked #'s 1-3 in terms of DRPM among SGs this year. So what gives? Do they somehow benefit statistically playing alongside Kawhi? Is it Pop's system? Is it an accurate measure of their defensive capabilities? Just seems crazy to me and I wonder if I'm missing something.

San Antonio is an oddity right now. I've been "defending" Kawhi's defense all year, even though the stats say he's the worst defender on the team. I've watched every game at least once, and knew that this wasn't true, and that Kawhi was still quite excellent on D, but couldn't figure out why the stats hated him so much. Turns out, I'm not the only person perplexed by this, here's Matt Moore of CBS:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kawhi-leonard-is-so-great-at-defense-hes-actually-hurting-the-spurs/

So we've reached an impasse. We know Leonard is an elite defender. We know he's still locking up whoever he is facing. So how do we explain these numbers, the somewhat small sample size notwithstanding?
Is it possible that Leonard is, in fact, too good a defender?

His premise is that teams are quite simply removing whoever Kawhi is defending from the offense altogether, effectively turning the game into 4 on 4 on offense for the opposition, against an otherwise lousy Spurs' defensive lineup.

Check out the article, it's quite substantiated (very Zach Lowe-esque). If you don't have time to read/watch the whole thing, here's some more interesting observations:

Takeaways
This is not rocket science: "Hey, why don't we not give the ball to the guy guarded by a two-time defensive player of the year?" That's not exactly reinventing the wheel, and some of it is as simple as "some plays the guy you're defending is not involved," but it is notable. The biggest reason this stands out is because, unlike some other defenders like Draymond Green who can switch onto any frontcourt or backcourt player, or Rudy Gobert, who will always make his impact known with his shot blocking and rim protection, Leonard can't be maximized because of his teammates' limitations. From a broader league perspective, that's my biggest takeaway: If you're getting an early read on Defensive Player of the Year, Leonard is not making as much of an impact this year as other players are.

You'd think taking away one of the opponent's offensive players completely would be a blessing, but in the case of the Spurs, it almost seems that because the rest of their defenders aren't quite good enough, Leonard may be too good for his own good.

Really interesting stuff- thank you. I've been equally perplexed by Kawhi's stats and this is by far the best defense I've seen.

Chinook · Post #5 » by **Chinook** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:38 pm

Green and Anderson have always been good defenders, and Simmons isn't getting burned as much this year. The only awkward thing is seeing Kyle listed as a two.

Anyone with eyes should be able to see Kawhi hasn't been as good this season. The article is coming in with the idea that Kawhi's been good this year and looking to find a way to fit reality with that idea. That instantly eliminates the most obvious explanation as to why everyone has been better without him (some by huge amounts). Until teams decide to do the four-on-four thing when Kawhi is off the floor (after all, it should be just as easy if not easier to isolate Parker and Gasol when Green or Simmons is the best defender), there's almost no power to that excuse.

Those to be honest, Kawhi plays so much that it's not easy for some players to find good data showing how they play without Kawhi.