How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS%

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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#61 » by RichardsRival3 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:16 pm

Blackmun wrote:
Patterns wrote:
Ming Kong! wrote:15apg

I don't believe 15apg is a big deal. The fact that he could get 15apg and still cause his team a victory is the problem.


Then you are an idiot, and I completely understand why you don't rate him higher.

darth_federer wrote:They re all great pgs who help their team win. Why are people so hang up about rankings? I think Rose is a better scorer and an athlete while Rondo is a better passer and defender. Rose has the bigger upside and could become a superstar.


Rose has no upside, what you see right now is what you get. Which is a pretty good player, don't get me wrong. But nothing about his game is going to significantly change at this point.


I guess you are an idiot as well. :lol:
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#62 » by Wavy Q » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:17 pm

this thread is hilarious
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#63 » by ocker » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:18 pm

Rondo outplays every point guard he faces about 95 percent of the time.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#64 » by G-Heel » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:55 pm

I agree Rondo isn't a top 3 PG, switch him with one of the top 5 PGs, how would their team be?

Hornets certainly won't be 9-1... CP3 in Boston? Forget Lakers and Miami, they will dominate everyone.

Jazz have some good offensive weapons, and may work, but it will still be a huge drop off from Deron leading them... On the other hand, C's will dominate with Deron.

Rondo in Phoenix will be a lottery team (well, technically they are right now, but still a big drop off imo)... Nash will help Boston greatly with his shooting and passing. Defense may drop off a little, but they would still be better than now.

Chicago? That team won't score, probably lottery... I don't know if Rose's game will fit Boston, but it certainly won't be a huge dropoff.

Thunders? huge dropoff... Westbrook on Cs will probably be a monster team.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#65 » by YFZblu » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:56 pm

G-Heel wrote:I agree Rondo isn't a top 3 PG, switch him with one of the top 5 PGs, how would their team be?

Hornets certainly won't be 9-1... CP3 in Boston? Forget Lakers and Miami, they will dominate everyone.

Jazz have some good offensive weapons, and may work, but it will still be a huge drop off from Deron leading them... On the other hand, C's will dominate with Deron.

Rondo in Phoenix will be a lottery team (well, technically they are right now, but still a big drop off imo)... Nash will help Boston greatly with his shooting and passing. Defense may drop off a little, but they would still be better than now.

Chicago? That team won't score, probably lottery... I don't know if Rose's game will fit Boston, but it certainly won't be a huge dropoff.

Thunders? huge dropoff... Westbrook on Cs will probably be a monster team.



This.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#66 » by Banks2Pierce » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:03 pm

YFZblu wrote:
His overall production is off the charts in terms of rebounding, causing disruption to an opposing offense, passing, etc...But IMO he doesn't take over a game consistently enough to be considered with Paul, Williams, Nash, Rose who literally put their respective teams on their back every night. Does Rondo even play in crunch time? Last I saw, the Celts were throwing Robinson in at that time because Rondo can't hit the easiest shot in the game, the free throw.

I really like Rondo, and his stats are bonkers....But really? On par with Nash, Paul, Williams, Rose? Absolutely not. However, I agree that anyone mentioning him in the same breath as Harris and Nelson are crazy as well. He's significantly better than those two, and it isn't close.



Disagree with you about this taking over games thing...he has taken over every game the Celtics have played this season. He's singlehandedly extending the window for the Celtics by getting the Big 3 and Shaq absolutely perfect looks. Rondo plays in every crunch time: don't talk if you don't watch the games.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#67 » by Gant » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:27 pm

Rondo is not at .480. After last night his TS% is .495. It will rise.

Every year Rondo is in the top few point guards in fg%. He'll be at the top this year too.

(This year his jumper stats have improved quite a bit if you separate those out.)


This year he has outplayed the opposing point guard every game, as you see here: http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fa ... le/11/2/27

(For some reason hoopsstats put LeBron as the opposing point guard on the Nov. 11 game, which is a mistake.)


Rondo's the most productive passer and best defender at his position. He's extending the sweet spot of the careers of Pierce, Allen, Garnett, and now Shaq.


Why the complaints?
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#68 » by beantownski » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:40 pm

Gant wrote:Rondo is not at .480. After last night his TS% is .495. It will rise.

Every year Rondo is in the top few point guards in fg%. He'll be at the top this year too.

(This year his jumper stats have improved quite a bit if you separate those out.)


This year he has outplayed the opposing point guard every game, as you see here: http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fa ... le/11/2/27

(For some reason hoopsstats put LeBron as the opposing point guard on the Nov. 11 game, which is a mistake.)


Rondo's the most productive passer and best defender at his position. He's extending the sweet spot of the careers of Pierce, Allen, Garnett, and now Shaq.


Why the complaints?



i don't get it either. he's a NO DOUBT top 5 pg in the league. he is the best passer in the game right now. the way he can put it on a dime with either hand amazes me.
some people just hate on everything celtics, some think a pg needs to score points, some discount everything he does because of his teammates, and some just like to hear themselves talk. that's all i can figure.....
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#69 » by AWalkerREMIX » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:44 pm

Every time someone posts something stupid like this OP did, you know he rarely watches any Celtics games. Yes, Rondo is a system player...he IS the system. Just like how everyone thought Mike D'Antoni was gonna turn Chris Duhon into Steve Nash. FAIL. These PG's are the reasons why these teams do well.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#70 » by Dirty Water » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:48 pm

Why is everyone so enamored with PPG? Play within your bounds and help your teammates. That's what winning is. That's what Rondo does. Basketball isn't teaming up everyone with the most PPG and thinking the team will somehow keep those averages up and become a super team.

People who say putting CP3 on the Celtics would make them unstoppable is just plain clueless. Sure they'd be good but you just add another ball dominating player to a team with enough players who dominate the ball... Rondo is a better fit for Celtics than CP3. There's a reason why he's putting up double the amount of assists than he did when they won the championship when Allen, Pierce and Garnett were all 3 years younger. Hmm. Interesting. There's a reason why Carlos Arroyo doesn't average 15 assists per game instantly with Lebron, Wade and Bosh on his team. He doesn't even average 2 APG. Cmon people, grow a brain.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#71 » by lukekarts » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:50 pm

BadWolf wrote:why is he arguablly the 4th best playmaker in the league?


Because he's arguably better than all but 3 point guards. I am still of the opinion CP3, Deron and Nash are better playmakers, considering the team-mates they've had success with over the past few seasons.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#72 » by Gant » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:54 pm

Something else: How come Rondo is the only player in the league that gets criticized for having talented teammates?

No one on the Lakers, Orlando, or anywhere else does (well, maybe Miami, but for a different reason).

Plus, the good folks who criticize Rondo for having great teammates, are the very same ones who say his teammates are old and over the hill when discussing any one of those guys.

You think the problem might be in the critic, and not in Rondo?
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#73 » by lukekarts » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:57 pm

Dirty Water wrote:Why is everyone so enamored with PPG? Play within your bounds and help your teammates. That's what winning is. That's what Rondo does. Basketball isn't teaming up everyone with the most PPG and thinking the team will somehow keep those averages up and become a super team.

People who say putting CP3 on the Celtics would make them unstoppable is just plain clueless. Sure they'd be good but you just add another ball dominating player to a team with enough players who dominate the ball... Rondo is a better fit for Celtics than CP3. There's a reason why he's putting up double the amount of assists than he did when they won the championship when Allen, Pierce and Garnett were all 3 years younger. Hmm. Interesting. There's a reason why Carlos Arroyo doesn't average 15 assists per game instantly with Lebron, Wade and Bosh on his team. He doesn't even average 2 APG. Cmon people, grow a brain.


I think you're half right. PPG isn't everything, and as you rightly state, Rondo doesn't have to do much scoring - and that is why he's a great fit for Boston. He is a very good passer, a good defensive player.

His scoring range is a detriment though - Rondo is constantly left alone on the perimeter, I'm sure you read the article recently where the Celtics were urging him to take more open shots. This allows the defense to collapse inside a little, and put more focus on Boston's scorers. With CP3, Deron or Nash, you create more space for the rest of the Celtics offense, as nobody will leave them to shoot open 3s.

People aren't suggesting he isn't talented, but arguing against his credentials as a top 3 point guard. His TS% doesn't tell you the whole story of course, but his lack of shooting/scoring ability is a limiting factor from him becoming a top 3 point guard.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#74 » by excision » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:03 pm

Patterns wrote:That's right. Rondo is the least efficient starting PG in the NBA.

I am sitting here thinking, why the hell do people think that he's a top 3 PG in the NBA? Hell, some people are saying that he's the best PG in the NBA.

Yes, he gets a lot of assists and he's great at that. I am not denying it. With as many finishers and ELITE shooters as Boston, Rondo is absolutely a good fit for Boston. Pierce, KG, Allen are all getting slower but they are still some of the best shooters at their positions and will go great with anyone who is good at penetrating.

It's not like Rondo and the Celtics are invincible. They are very beatable and they often lose BECAUSE of Rondo.

For those who think that he's a top 3 PG in the NBA or even the best, do you honestly think that Chris Paul wouldn't be able to do the same in Boston? If CP3 was playing in Boston, Boston would completely destroy the league. Or Deron? Westbrook? Nash? Harris? Nelson? Hell, I even think Devin Harris would be better for the Celtics.

Rondo is a system player. He's blessed by elite shooters in Allen, Pierce, and KG. Not many PGs get those kinds of options on the wing to pass to.

Let's not forget that Rondo was terrible in the USA camp. I was worried that he would make the team because I knew he'd stink it up in the international game where shooting is a must. He would have hurt team USA.

Rondo is a top 10 PG in the NBA. He's not top 3, not top 5. He certainly isn't anywhere near the best. If he's the best PG in the NBA, this "golden age" for PGs is sad.


Other than the Lakers, not a single team has been less 'beatable' over the past few years, so I don't know where you got that from. This year, they're sitting atop the Eastern Conference and second in the NBA overall, beating quality teams in the process (the same cannot be said for San Antonio and the Lakers). As for Rondo, he is the reason they have been so dominant. Other than being unquestionably the best defensive point-guard in the NBA, you would know that he what makes the Celtic's incredibly efficient offense run so smoothly, and that he impacts the game in such a large varierty of ways. He has already proven that he can be an efficient and effective scorer in last year's playoffs. This season he's just focusing on his passing and is dominating that facet of the game in a way that has not been seen since Magic Johnson. And while I agree he may not have surpassed Paul and Williams, to say he is not a top 3 point guard in the NBA is simply ludicrous.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#75 » by Gant » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:04 pm

lukekarts wrote:
Dirty Water wrote:Why is everyone so enamored with PPG? Play within your bounds and help your teammates. That's what winning is. That's what Rondo does. Basketball isn't teaming up everyone with the most PPG and thinking the team will somehow keep those averages up and become a super team.

People who say putting CP3 on the Celtics would make them unstoppable is just plain clueless. Sure they'd be good but you just add another ball dominating player to a team with enough players who dominate the ball... Rondo is a better fit for Celtics than CP3. There's a reason why he's putting up double the amount of assists than he did when they won the championship when Allen, Pierce and Garnett were all 3 years younger. Hmm. Interesting. There's a reason why Carlos Arroyo doesn't average 15 assists per game instantly with Lebron, Wade and Bosh on his team. He doesn't even average 2 APG. Cmon people, grow a brain.


His scoring range is a detriment though - Rondo is constantly left alone on the perimeter, I'm sure you read the article recently where the Celtics were urging him to take more open shots. This allows the defense to collapse inside a little, and put more focus on Boston's scorers.


But that's a myth. It's not true. Boston routinely scores inside. Rondo just drives and scores or dishes if you give him space. The defense doesn't effectively collapse on the Celtics. The Boston scorers are THE most efficient in the league, shooting 50.7 %.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#76 » by AWalkerREMIX » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:13 pm

Dirty Water wrote:Why is everyone so enamored with PPG? Play within your bounds and help your teammates. That's what winning is. That's what Rondo does. Basketball isn't teaming up everyone with the most PPG and thinking the team will somehow keep those averages up and become a super team.

People who say putting CP3 on the Celtics would be them unstoppable is just plain clueless. Sure they'd be good but you just add another ball dominating player to a team with enough players who dominate the ball... Rondo is a better fit for Celtics than CP3. There's a reason why he's putting up double the amount of assists than he did when they won the championship when Allen, Pierce and Garnett were all 3 years younger. Hmm. Interesting. There's a reason why Carlos Arroyo doesn't average 15 assists per game instantly with Lebron, Wade and Bosh on his team. He doesn't even average 2 APG. Cmon people, grow a brain.

Yeah, exactly. How many times have people said "anyone could average Rondo's numbers while passing the ball to 3 Hall of Famers!" Clearly not. How can anyone averaging 15 apg not be considered the best PG in the game? I know that all of these combo-position players have gotten some "fans" confused over the years, but there are positions on the court for a reason. The point guard is meant to run the offense and distribute the ball. Rondo IS one of the top 2 PG in the league at running an offense. As a bonus, Rondo is also the best defensive PG in the league. I'm not sure how that doesn't make him top 3.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#77 » by AWalkerREMIX » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:15 pm

lukekarts wrote:
BadWolf wrote:why is he arguablly the 4th best playmaker in the league?


Because he's arguably better than all but 3 point guards. I am still of the opinion CP3, Deron and Nash are better playmakers, considering the team-mates they've had success with over the past few seasons.

:o I'm sorry, but I thought assists were the best way to judge a player's playmaking ability. Have we come up with a better way?
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#78 » by -Illmatic- » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:37 pm

darth_federer wrote:They re all great pgs who help their team win. Why are people so hang up about rankings? I think Rose is a better scorer and an athlete while Rondo is a better passer and defender. Rose has the bigger upside and could become a superstar.


Derrick Rose IS a superstar.

PPG: 25.5
APG: 8.7
RPG: 3.6
FG% .481
3P% 34.2%
TS% 55%
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#79 » by Bomb_First » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:44 pm

Rondo's defense is vastly overrated. In a league full of terrible defending point guards, Rondo might seem to be great. But he in reality he isn't as good as advertised. I would much rather have Westbrook when it comes to point guard defense.
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Re: How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS% 

Post#80 » by AWalkerREMIX » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:49 pm

Bomb_First wrote:Rondo's defense is vastly overrated. In a league full of terrible defending point guards, Rondo might seem to be great. But he in reality he isn't as good as advertised. I would much rather have Westbrook when it comes to point guard defense.

Explain.

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