RealGM

I keep seeing people using TS% as if it is the only thing that determines offensive efficiency, and it doesn't. That along with every other offensive stat (offensive rebs, assists, and turnovers) determines offensive efficiency, and it's called offensive rating (ORtg). So please refrain from labeling a players efficient based solely on their TS% b/c that isn't the case. /rant

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#ts_pct
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_rating

Okay.

According to basketball-reference.com Serge Ibaka has an offensive rating of 138.38 making him the NBA's most dangerous offensive weapon.

TS% is scoring efficiency

I thought this was implied. TS% measures scoring efficiency, not offensive efficiency. There's more to offense than scoring.

RichardsRival3 wrote:According to basketball-reference.com Serge Ibaka has an offensive rating of 138.38 making him the NBA's most dangerous offensive weapon.

You have to put numbers in context.

What is his USG%?
What is his MPG?

Come on dude...

obinna wrote:

RichardsRival3 wrote:According to basketball-reference.com Serge Ibaka has an offensive rating of 138.38 making him the NBA's most dangerous offensive weapon.

You have to put numbers in context.

What is his USG%?
What is his MPG?

Come on dude...

Come on dude? Look up Offensive rating by year and see who lead each year and tell me how often that player was the best offensive player in the NBA.

nonemus wrote:I thought this was implied. TS% measures scoring efficiency, not offensive efficiency. There's more to offense than scoring.

I don't even like saying scoring efficiency either. Because offensive rating is actually points produced per 100 possessions which is by definition scoring efficiency. It's really just shooting efficiency. Regardless, I understand what you are saying.

True shooting % measures shooting efficiency, tricky concept, I know, And it's pretty much the perfect, uncontroversial stat for what it does, while offensive rating is certainly not the perfect stat for what it does.

RichardsRival3 wrote:

obinna wrote:

RichardsRival3 wrote:According to basketball-reference.com Serge Ibaka has an offensive rating of 138.38 making him the NBA's most dangerous offensive weapon.

You have to put numbers in context.

What is his USG%?
What is his MPG?

Come on dude...

Come on dude? Look up Offensive rating by year and see who lead each year and tell me how often that player was the best offensive player in the NBA.

Didn't I just say you have to put numbers into context? Elite offense players usually have high USG%, ORtg, and MPG.

ORtg is way too noisy. A great offensive player with offensively deficient teammates will have a lower rating than a role player who plays on the best offense. TS% obviously isn't the only stat to look at, but at least it's within the player's control

Promezclan wrote:True shooting % measures shooting efficiency, tricky concept, I know, And it's pretty much the perfect, uncontroversial stat for what it does, while offensive rating is certainly not the perfect stat for what it does.

Never said it was tricky, but a lot of people seem to think it measures offense efficiency which it doesn't. Then again I said that in the OP so yeah...

obinna wrote:

nonemus wrote:I thought this was implied. TS% measures scoring efficiency, not offensive efficiency. There's more to offense than scoring.

I don't even like saying scoring efficiency either. Because offensive rating is actually points produced per 100 possessions which is by definition scoring efficiency. It's really just shooting efficiency. Regardless, I understand what you are saying.

Individual scoring = points scored by the player

Individual Off. Rating is not points scored by the player per possession (Oliver's ORtg). It includes stuff that has nothing to do with the player scoring. It's not by definition scoring efficiency, it measures others contributions by the individual.

TS% measures all the scoring (shooting from the field + free throws) and nothing else -> scoring efficiency. If one wants to measure the efficiency of individual scoring, it's a much proper metric than Off. Rtg.

obinna wrote:I don't even like saying scoring efficiency either. Because offensive rating is actually points produced per 100 possessions which is by definition scoring efficiency. It's really just shooting efficiency. Regardless, I understand what you are saying.

No it's not. Points produced is a stat that assigns values to each aspect of offensive production (offensive rebounds, fg's, ft;s, assists) and then adds them up. The total of those values for every player on the team will equal how much the team scored in the game. Points produced has other factors then scoring in it.

TS% is fine for deminstrating scoring efficeincy. I believe in uses an estimate for the amount of "and 1's" a player gets instead of hand tracking each individual player but overall it's a pretty good representation. ORTG's by no means perfect either as it uses estimates as well.

Bobbcats wrote:ORtg is way too noisy. A great offensive player with offensively deficient teammates will have a lower rating than a role player who plays on the best offense.

Edit. I didn't read what you posted correctly.

You are right. That's why there is USG% and MPG%

obinna wrote:I keep seeing people using TS% as if it is the only thing that determines offensive efficiency, and it doesn't. That along with every other offensive stat (offensive rebs, assists, and turnovers) determines offensive efficiency, and it's called offensive rating (ORtg). So please refrain from labeling a players efficient based solely on their TS% b/c that isn't the case. /rant

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#ts_pct
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_rating

If you want to say "not equal" the generally accepted notation is:

!=

while you would have been correct if you could have put the slash through the equal sign, I'd have to say that
=/= != not equal

ah, math jokes.

Isn't there a subforum for this?

everyone on the SA subforum knows this though lol...

droponov wrote:

obinna wrote:

nonemus wrote:I thought this was implied. TS% measures scoring efficiency, not offensive efficiency. There's more to offense than scoring.

I don't even like saying scoring efficiency either. Because offensive rating is actually points produced per 100 possessions which is by definition scoring efficiency. It's really just shooting efficiency. Regardless, I understand what you are saying.

Individual scoring = points scored by the player

Individual Off. Rating is not points scored by the player per possession (Oliver's ORtg). It includes stuff that has nothing to do with the player scoring. It's not by definition scoring efficiency, it measures others contributions by the individual.

TS% measures all the scoring (shooting from the field + free throws) and nothing else -> scoring efficiency. If one wants to measure the efficiency of individual scoring, it's a much proper metric than Off. Rtg.

It's individual points produced (for the team) and yes it is the same rating Oliver used. Look in the book. You can tell because it includes variants of OREB, AST, and TOV.

If TS% really measured that it would include turnovers since they take away a chance to score.

Somewhere, John Hollinger & Daryl Morey are cumming their pants reading this.