RealGM

I mean, for instance we have a SG with 8 rebounds a game, and a center with 10 rebounds a game, the logic I see is that, rebound wise, the impact of the shooting guard is bigger than the impact of the center, despite the center having more rebounds, because a center should average 10 rebounds a game, and the SG should not average 8. I don't if a make myself clear, but is there a stats with this kind of logic?

but what impact does the position of the player who gets the rebound have on the outcome of the game?

other than you probably would rather have your sg leaking out than your center, but that would actually make a sg rebound slightly less valuable


if you want to see who's a good rebounder for their position, wouldn't you just compare whatever rebounding stat you prefer to the mean or median for that position?

sndesai1 wrote:but what impact does the position of the player who gets the rebound have on the outcome of the game?

other than you probably would rather have your sg leaking out than your center, but that would actually make a sg rebound slightly less valuable


if you want to see who's a good rebounder for their position, wouldn't you just compare whatever rebounding stat you prefer to the mean or median for that position?

For instance, I have team 1 and team 2. The averages for rebounds by PG in the league is 2, by sg 4, by small forwards 6, by PF is 8, and by centers 10

In team 1 I have a SG that is averaging 6 rebounds per game, and in team 2 a center that is averaging 8 rebounds per game. If all the other members of both teams has the leagues averages, then the impact of the SG is bigger, cause his team would have 4 more rebounds than team 2.

spectacularmove wrote:In team 1 I have a SG that is averaging 6 rebounds per game, and in team 2 a center that is averaging 8 rebounds per game. If all the other members of both teams has the leagues averages, then the impact of the SG is bigger, cause his team would have 4 more rebounds than team 2.

Let's ignore that your math is a bit off, but your conclusion is not per se true. Teams are using specific patterns for rebounding and the guard may just be able to grab more boards, because the bigs are better at blocking out. Basing such things only on the raw rebounding numbers in comparison to the supposed to be pairs at an arbritary position is the wrong way to go. A rebound has most times the same impact unless it is catched by someone who is a great outlet passer to initiate a fastbreak. For example, the Nets and Mavericks used Kidd in such a fashion, where his ability to grab the ball and make the proper outlet pass was supported by the bigs blocking out for him. When making a regression analysis of the defensive rebounding impact, the result for example was, that Jason Collins had a bigger net positive impact on the defensive rebounding of the Nets than Jason Kidd, despite the fact that Kidd had 18.5 DRB% and Collins only 14.3 DRB%.
Your proposed idea wouldn't recognise that at all, in fact, it would actually overrate the guard.

This is why adjusted rebounding is important. What matters is how much players improve the overall rebounding at the team level, to account for the fact that some players "steal" other players' rebounds.

I would like to see a normalized PER based on the positions. I can actually get working on that.

flashwade33 wrote:I would like to see a normalized PER based on the positions. I can actually get working on that.

If so, you are going to need to do it by Defensive positions rather than trying to figure out whether Oscar/Magic/West is a "true PG." It's not as hard to basically do it by who has the primary defensive responsibility for each opp's player as that is 90% size rather than 80% or so like using "standard" offensive positions if such things even exist.

When I was programming in college and tried to set up a program to run Strat-O-Matic basketball, I figured that each player could guard two positions with full efficiency except for a few small PGs and big Cs who couldn't switch . . . but hey, the Hawks used to play Charlie Criss and Spud Webb together at times using Webb to guard wings. . . but then he probably wasn't at his full defensive potential there.

The general idea here is simply VORP, yeah?