Raw plus/minus for 93-94, 94-95, 95-96 seasons

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Re: Raw plus/minus for 93-94, 94-95, 95-96 seasons 

Post#201 » by colts18 » Sun Dec 6, 2015 8:58 pm

Curry is on pace to smash some plus/minus records like the best on court total +/-, best on court +/- per 100, tied with KG 03 for best Net +/- per 100 at +23.4.
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Re: Raw plus/minus for 93-94, 94-95, 95-96 seasons 

Post#202 » by colts18 » Mon Apr 4, 2016 4:11 am

Congrats to Draymond Green for being the first player ever recorded to hit +1,000 in plus/minus in a season. He is at +1,007 now.
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Re: Raw plus/minus for 93-94, 94-95, 95-96 seasons 

Post#203 » by colts18 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:17 pm

Updated Plus/minus results now that the season is over. We have 23 seasons of plus/minus (94-16) available.


On court Net +/-, On court per 100 poss, Net Plus/Minus per 100 poss
1. 16 Green, +1070, +18.3, +25.1
2. 16 Curry +1022, +17.9, +22.2
3. 96 Jordan +980, +16.7, +15.2
4. 15 Curry +920, +16.6, +17.8
5. 96 Pippen +899, +16.8, +11.8
6. 09 James +871, +15, +21.2
7. 15 Green +839, +16.5, +15.4
8. 16 Thompson +835, +15.2, +12.7
9. 97 Jordan +818, +14, +9.7
10. 97 Pippen +807, +13.9, +9

MJ/Pippen and Curry/Green duos dominate the list with 8 out of 10 spots. Only 2009 LeBron was able to make the list as a member of a team other than the Warriors/Bulls. Draymond Green smashes the record for highest on Court +/- by nearly 100 points.

Top 8 in On court Net rating per 100 (Min. 1500 MP):
1. 16 Green +18.3
2. 16 Curry +17.9
3. 96 Kukoc +17.0
4. 05 Duncan +16.9
5. 96 Pippen +16.8
6. 96 Harper +16.8
T7. 96 Jordan +16.7
T7. 96 Longley +16.7
T9. 15 Curry +16.6
T9. 05 Ginobili +16.6
T9. 15 Bogut +16.6

Draymond Green breaks the record for highest on court Net rating. This list has only Bulls/Warriors/Spurs players on it. The highest player on the list who didn't play for those teams is 1994 Nate McMillan at +16.5.

Net Plus/Minus:
Draymond Green and Stephen Curry joined the +20 Net Plus/Minus club this season joining the likes of 97 Laettner, 99 Kidd, 09 LeBron, 03 Dirk, 03 KG, 04 KG, and 15 Paul. Green broke the record for highest Net Plus/Minus

Top 9
1. 16 Green +25.2
2. 03 KG +23.4
3. 16 Curry +22.2
4. 09 LeBron +21.2
5. 99 Kidd +21.1
6. 15 Paul +20.9
7. 04 KG +20.7
8. 03 Dirk +20.4
9. 97 Laettner +20.1


On Court Offensive Rating:

Curry barely misses the top on court Offensive rating since 2001. Draymond Green in the top 3.

On Court O rating 01-16 (min. 1500 MP):
1. 05 Nash 120.3
2. 16 Curry 119.1
3. 16 Green 118.8
4. 07 Nash 118.6
5. 10 Frye 118.6
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Re: Raw plus/minus for 93-94, 94-95, 95-96 seasons 

Post#204 » by AdagioPace » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:25 pm

eminence right now, reading the last comments by colts18

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Re: Raw plus/minus for 93-94, 94-95, 95-96 seasons 

Post#205 » by Gregoire » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:14 am

Could anybody do it for 94-17 seasons?
nate33 wrote:

Yeah, when ever I make all time comparisons, I pretty much ignore the pre-3PT-line era. The game was so different then. It's apples and oranges. Those guys may be better or may be worse, we're never really going to know.
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Re: Raw plus/minus for 93-94, 94-95, 95-96 seasons 

Post#206 » by Clyde Frazier » Mon Jan 7, 2019 8:31 pm

Inadvertently came across this thread. Bumping it for any newer posters who may find it interesting.
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Re: Raw plus/minus for 93-94 season 

Post#207 » by pdevos » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:52 am

fpliii wrote:
colts18 wrote:I'm curious about who was tracking that stat? Was it from a play by play file or was it done by box score? Did someone watch every game after the season and recorded plus/minus?

According to nba.com:

During the Sixers’ offseason, Pollack and his interns analyze 1,189 play-by-play sheets from the previous season to produce Harvey Pollack’s NBA Statistical Yearbook, a 204-pagecornucopia of rare basketball information that takes statistical analysis to a new level. Want to find out the distance of every field goal taken by every player in the league from last season? Ever wonder which players get their shots blocked the most? And every year Pollack raises the bar by adding a few more nuggets of information to his book.


source: http://www.nba.com/history/pollack_hof.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Woah! I've always wondered this, but never knew. I wonder if they're around somewhere. He must have gotten them from all the NBA teams. Also any idea how far back Pollack's +/- goes? It would probably mean there's play-by-play data sheets back til then too.


On a related note:
I'm actually looking for something like this -- and if not already into existence, to somehow bring them into existence (e.g. community involvement to watch games and compile them)
viewtopic.php?f=344&t=1827778
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Re: Raw plus/minus for 93-94 season 

Post#208 » by King Ken » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:24 pm

ardee wrote:This is my problem with +/- stats in general... Does anyone really think Willis and Malone were better than Hakeem in 1994?

It had more to do with who the Hawks had behind Willis more than Malone and Hakeem. Hawks was one of the least deep teams of the 90s. There bench was almost never decent. Always trash
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Re: Raw plus/minus for 93-94, 94-95, 95-96 seasons 

Post#209 » by King Ken » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:45 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
drza wrote:
ronnymac2 wrote:I see Blaylock's box score stats and +/- stats and immediately think of Baron Davis. You'd think they'd look bad in +/- because they are point guards known for inefficiency and shot-jacking (B-Diddy more than Mookie for chucking), but they are lifting their teams.


I find this fascinating. I was just talking about Baron Davis in the top 100 thread. Davis, Mookie, Kidd...we're starting to get a nice little group of inefficient scoring point guards that are showing up outstanding in +/- studies. I've felt for awhile that scoring efficiency is greatly overvalued in box score based advanced stats...I'm looking forward to being able to go further in depth in looking at this with a larger data set


I think we have to start by first recognizing that the focus on efficiency with regards to point guards is tied to the shift where we tend to see actual playmaking-oriented guys be much more impactful than scoring oriented guys. That trend remains overwhelmingly true.

What your pointing out is a countertrend in which we see that while efficiency is typically a great indicator of actually playing the point guard position correctly, there are exceptions. In the case of Kidd, he's an exception, but everyone always assumed he was, because he was considered a genius on the floor but just not a very good shooter. The +/- data hasn't actually turned up anything surprising with Kidd except to those who thought he was even better than that.

Now, Baron & Mookie are more interesting.

With Baron, what we mostly see is similar to Kidd: That the addition of his nice defense, can boost some already pretty-good offense. The anomaly are a couple years with GS where his offensive RAPM is massive. So what to make of it? Lots of room for debate.

With Mookie it's more crazy to me. While Baron may have been seen as a 2nd tier guy, he was known to be high potential as a prospect and played with superstar primacy relatively early in his career. The data basically confirms that he at times lived up to his potential.

I never saw Mookie like that. He only made all-star once, and did so in a year when BJ Armstrong made it too. Calling him a Tier 3 star still seems like overstating it.

Obviously he was respected for his defense, but his defensive RAPM only makes him look like your typical All-D guard, It's his offense to this point that makes him look like an outlier. If that holds as we get more data, we have to ask what it was he was doing that was so damn effective.

Mookie was always the man to me as a Hawks fan. At the end of the day, some guys do better with this than others but Mookie was our best PG till Trae came. Trae has some growth to reach Mookies ceiling.

For that era, we have to remember Mookie was the man.
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Re: Raw plus/minus for 93-94 season 

Post#210 » by ardee » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:48 am

King Ken wrote:
ardee wrote:This is my problem with +/- stats in general... Does anyone really think Willis and Malone were better than Hakeem in 1994?

It had more to do with who the Hawks had behind Willis more than Malone and Hakeem. Hawks was one of the least deep teams of the 90s. There bench was almost never decent. Always trash


That kind of proves my point. Using +/- stats like this as an argument for or against a player makes no sense because it tells you as much about the team as the player.

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