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Much has been made of Ben Simmons inability to shoot outside of 5 feet and his fit with Joel Embiid. He's definitely one of the more controversial players in the league. His valuation is all over the place. Some view him as a top 10 player, some as a top 25 player and a few rate him as a negative value player.

Looking at his new teammates it seems like Harris, Horford and Richardson all shot worse with the Sixers than they did with their previous teams.

I am not good with basketball statistical analysis but I would be interested to hear what the experts on this board have to say about these question:

- Do Simmons' new teammates perform worse than they did previously?
- Do Simmons' previous teammates perform better once they no longer play with him?
- Do Simmons' teammates play better with him off the court than on?

Thanks for the assistance!

Ben Simmons is an extremely important player for the sixers. He is first in the league In 3pt assists as well. The team runs very smooth with him in the game, his main problem and it’s a very important one is his lack of production in crunch time as he is nearly useless. But he has really improved his free throw shooting and now he is becoming less of a liability there. He is certainly a top 15 player and a very good two way player that certainly makes his teammates better.

Village Idiot wrote:Much has been made of Ben Simmons inability to shoot outside of 5 feet and his fit with Joel Embiid. He's definitely one of the more controversial players in the league. His valuation is all over the place. Some view him as a top 10 player, some as a top 25 player and a few rate him as a negative value player. Looking at his new teammates it seems like Harris, Horford and Richardson all shot worse with the Sixers than they did with their previous teams.

I'd be interested in seeing this broken down, too, but one thing to note is that this actually reverses for some other players. Robert Covington shot 38-39% his couple years playing with Simmons (on very high volume) and then slipped down to 35% the last year. Dario Saric shot 39% his one year starting alongside Simmons, then was at 34% this year.

Also the players you brought up aren't consistent ace shooters and never have been, which means that you can expect some fluctuations. Harris had two years shooting really well but otherwise has been in the average range (which is where he's at this year, 36%), Richardson's dipped down a couple percentage points from his past two years but it's still pretty small, and Horford's actually right around his career % (just down from an unsustainable and low volume career high of 2 years ago). I think it's a lot more likely that those players just aren't having great years this year than that Simmons setting them up with decent shots is somehow inherently damaging.

I don't know for sure and would be interested in seeing more data on it, but that's my guess from having seen many Simmons games. There could be something to the sort of random pace he plays at, which might make it harder to get a team drive-kick rhythm or something.

HotelVitale wrote:

Village Idiot wrote:Much has been made of Ben Simmons inability to shoot outside of 5 feet and his fit with Joel Embiid. He's definitely one of the more controversial players in the league. His valuation is all over the place. Some view him as a top 10 player, some as a top 25 player and a few rate him as a negative value player. Looking at his new teammates it seems like Harris, Horford and Richardson all shot worse with the Sixers than they did with their previous teams.

I'd be interested in seeing this broken down, too, but one thing to note is that this actually reverses for some other players. Robert Covington shot 38-39% his couple years playing with Simmons (on very high volume) and then slipped down to 35% the last year. Dario Saric shot 39% his one year starting alongside Simmons, then was at 34% this year.

Also the players you brought up aren't consistent ace shooters and never have been, which means that you can expect some fluctuations. Harris had two years shooting really well but otherwise has been in the average range (which is where he's at this year, 36%), Richardson's dipped down a couple percentage points from his past two years but it's still pretty small, and Horford's actually right around his career % (just down from an unsustainable and low volume career high of 2 years ago). I think it's a lot more likely that those players just aren't having great years this year than that Simmons setting them up with decent shots is somehow inherently damaging.

I don't know for sure and would be interested in seeing more data on it, but that's my guess from having seen many Simmons games. There could be something to the sort of random pace he plays at, which might make it harder to get a team drive-kick rhythm or something.

Thanks. Good information. Did anything else change from previous seasons to this year in terms of how Simmons is being used? I don't watch enough Sixers games to have a firm handle on that.

Regarding Richarson, Harris and Horford. For each player reversion to the mean makes sense but when all three show a simultaneous decline it might mean something more systematic.

Let's hope one of the analytics regulars on this board can chime in with some numbers.

Village Idiot wrote:

HotelVitale wrote: Also the players you brought up aren't consistent ace shooters and never have been, which means that you can expect some fluctuations. Harris had two years shooting really well but otherwise has been in the average range (which is where he's at this year, 36%), Richardson's dipped down a couple percentage points from his past two years but it's still pretty small, and Horford's actually right around his career % (just down from an unsustainable and low volume career high of 2 years ago). I think it's a lot more likely that those players just aren't having great years this year than that Simmons setting them up with decent shots is somehow inherently damaging. I don't know for sure and would be interested in seeing more data on it, but that's my guess from having seen many Simmons games. There could be something to the sort of random pace he plays at, which might make it harder to get a team drive-kick rhythm or something.

Thanks. Good information. Did anything else change from previous seasons to this year in terms of how Simmons is being used? I don't watch enough Sixers games to have a firm handle on that. Regarding Richarson, Harris and Horford. For each player reversion to the mean makes sense but when all three show a simultaneous decline it might mean something more systematic. Let's hope one of the analytics regulars on this board can chime in with some numbers.

I never took stats (not even in HS) but I don't think it'd be that statistically weird for three players to have their percentages down from career numbers by 2-3% over a 4 month sample. That seems like it could very easily be noise, especially since shooting among non-elite shooters tends to vary from year to year. Also we have to remember that our margins for good/bad shooters are really really thin--the difference between a pretty bad 33% and a really nice 39% is literally 2-3 extra makes per month for a starting player who shoots 3s at medium volume. A couple more shots being just off by an extra half inch doesn't mean you're suddenly turning into a bad shooter.

In case it is meaningful, though, here's my best guess:
--Horford is trying to shoot a lot more from deep this year, his attempts are up like 40% from last year. In Boston he shot a couple times per game, either when he was feeling it or was very open. He's trying to play more of a stretch role and either hasn't adjusted yet or isn't that great in that role. (Also add again that he was never a great 3 pt shooter and this season's 34% isn't far from most of his years.)
--Harris is noise. He had a really bad start to the season, and I believe he's been at 39-40% from 3 for the 3 months after the first 5-6 weeks of the season. He gets the type of looks he wants off the dribble and Simmons sets him up well, that seems like a fine partnership.
--Richardson to my eyes looks like he might not thrive off of the type of looks Simmons and the Sixers create, which are more kick-outs from down low or else in transition rather than the perimeter ball-movement that the Heat did. The Sixers' offense is sort of frantic and Simmons in particular likes to do these rushed spazzy moves (his main weakness is not having counters when the defense doesn't leave any openings for him to rush into), and firing up quick shots off that type of creation might not be as good for J Rich as it is for the more methodical Heat system. Though he could also just be finding rhythm, or his 3-4% sway could be noise too.

He doesn’t carry the scoring load on offense and requires his teammates to make their open shots (first of 3pt assists).

He doesn’t anchor the team’s defense but he is elite in making deflections and is very good defenders against guards.