Quintuple-double by combining career highs?

[EtchenBa]

Like take a player's career highs in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks and pretend they are from one game.

I'm sure Wilt unofficially has, since blocks and steals weren't recorded back then, but I can't think of anyone officially.

[slick_watts]

The closest is Hakeem, whose career high in steals is 8 and has games with 10+ in all other categories. The limiting factor here is obviously steals since only 10-15 players have ever had 10 or more steals in a game, all of them guards, and no guard has ever had more than seven blocks in a game (Doug Christie did it once).

Michael Jordan and Kendall Gill are the closest guards to doing it, with 10+ in everything except blocks, both have had games with six blocks. Doug Christie had a game with 7 blocks, and a game with 9 steals.

[Manuel Calavera]

Jerry West probably had 10 blocks in a game at some point in his career.

[Dr Positivity]

I wonder if George McGinnis ever did it. Points, assists, rebounds, steals, and turnovers

[Mayap]

Like take a player's career highs in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks and pretend they are from one game.

I'm sure Wilt unofficially has, since blocks and steals weren't recorded back then, but I can't think of anyone officially.

Wilt had 16 unofficial quadruple doubles WITHOUT combining career highs lol. I'm certain he's had 10 steals at one point in his career.

[schneiderjazz]

Kirilenko comes close with career highs of 31, 18, 11, 10 blocks and 8 steals. Duncan has career highs of 53, 25, 11, 9 blocks and 8 steals. The thing is very few players have 10 or more steals in a game. Is there any way to know exactly how many players?

[High 5]

Kirilenko comes close with career highs of 31, 18, 11, 10 blocks and 8 steals. Duncan has career highs of 53, 25, 11, 9 blocks and 8 steals. The thing is very few players have 10 or more steals in a game. Is there any way to know exactly how many players?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... _game.html

According to those stats nobody since 1986 has a "quintuple-double." 10 steals just requires an absurd amount of luck. Unless you're Alvin Robertson apparently.

[Egg Nog]

Jerry West probably had 10 blocks in a game at some point in his career.

That sounds extremely unlikely.

[TrueLAfan]

Jerry West probably had 10 blocks in a game at some point in his career.

That sounds extremely unlikely.

Jerry West was probably the best shot blocking guard of all time. Part of that was because he played in a time period when the three wasn’t as prevalent, and fewer blocks occur on three pointers as opposed to interior shots. And more shots were taken while West played; that helped him.

But, mainly, West has the advantage that Dwyane Wade has—absurd wingspan for his size. And it’s my opinion that West got up in the air a bit faster than Wade—partly because he was lighter, partly because he simply was able to. West’s leaping ability was pretty legendary; so was his first step. He got up in the air and he got there fast.

We have block and steal statistics for one year of Jerry West’s career--1974. He was 35 and had already played a ton of minutes (almost 36000 regular season) at the beginning of the year. He was injured and didn’t play much that year. He had 23 blocks in 967 minutes…about a block every 42 minutes. Here is a list of players over the age of 30 (not 35) that played 50 games in a season and averaged a block every 41 minutes.

[no one]

I have to think that when West was younger, he had a bunch of 100 block seasons…he might have gotten over 150 as a result of the number of shots taken in the 60s. If we assume that his shots blocked per minute dropped by 50-55% from when he was 23-27 compared to when he was 35 (and that’s conservative; Jordan’s blocked shots dropped around 70%; Dennis Johnson’s dropped more than that), we could put together a career chart with natural regression and make a passing guess at what his blocks per game/seasons might have been like.

Code: Select all


Season      G     MP  MPB MPG   BLK BPG
1961       79   2797  25  35.41  112 1.42
1962       75   3087  23  41.16  134 1.79
1963       55   2163 21.5 39.33  101 1.83
1964       72   2906  20  40.36  145 2.02
1965       74   3066  21  41.43  146 1.97
1966       79   3218  25  40.73  129 1.63
1967       66   2670  28  40.45   95 1.44
1968       51   1919  33  37.63   58 1.14
1969       61   2394  32  39.25   75 1.23
1970       74   3106  37  41.97   84 1.13
1971       69   2845  39  41.23   73 1.06
1972       77   2973  40  38.61   74 0.97
1973       69   2460  41  35.65   60 0.87
1974       31    967  42  31.19   23 0.74

Career    932  36571            1309 1.40


That regression is pretty typical, and it shows that West would have been around 2 blocks a game at his peak. If a player averages 1.8 a game for around 280 games…what are the chances he’ll have a 10 block game? That’s about what we’re talking about for West,

[tsherkin]

Interesting take, true.

As an aside, what would Kareem's block totals likely look like with his first 4 years included?

[TrueLAfan]

It’s a bit harder to guess with Cs.  With guards that block a decent amount of shots, there’s a very consistent career path.  And there aren’t many guards that have played over 500 games and averaged over .6 blocks a game for their career  (which, again, shows how amazing it was for West to average .7 blocks in only 31 minutes at age 35).  They peak in blocks around seasons 2-5, usually around age 23-25.  By the time they are in their early and mid-thirties, their blocks are down about 60-70% from that peak.  I had West peaking at 25; in retrospect, I might have him peak a year earlier.  But I was pretty conservative in how much I had him drop off; in my regression, Jerry West goes from 2.02 blocks in 40.4 minutes per game to 0.74 blocks in 31.2 minutes per game, only about a 50-55% drop.
 
C’s don’t always drop in blocks as they get older.  And they don’t always block more when young.  DRob peaked as a shotblocker very young…his first three seasons are his best seasons.  With Hakeem, it was closer to mid-career, age 27-31.  Parish was at his best in seasons 3-6; Deke's peak was in seasons 3-5 (although, granted, he was at least 27 when that run started).  Artis had his best years in seasons 1-3.  Ewing peaked in seasons 4-5.  The trends aren’t as consistent as with shot blocking guards.
 
But, what the hell.  Given that Kareem was still swatting 4 shots a game at age 31, I can’t imagine him more than 25% below that in his early years…in other words, he had to have been getting at least three blocks a game.  And three of Kareem’s top 4 seasons in minutes per game were in seasons 1-4 also; I think that would help him quite a bit in terms of totals.  I don’t think Hakeem would be like DRob, and come out of the gate at his peak.  But, as with a lot of his play, I think Kareem simply had a long, sustained period of excellence.  So if I were guessing---which I am here--I'd say season's 1-4 of Kareem would, on balance, be about equal to seasons 5-8 in terms of blocks per minute. So Kareem would block, by year (with the year of bpm for estimation purposes):

Code: Select all


Year
        G   MIN   BPM   (YR)  BLK  BPG     
1970   82  3534  12.54 (1974) 282  3.44
1971   82  3288  12.96 (1975) 254  3.10
1972   81  3583  10.00 (1976) 358  4.42
1973   76  3254  11.56 (1977) 282  3.72


...which fits in pretty well with his subsequent numbers, so I'll go with that for a guess. That would give him 4365 in career blocks; he'd be first among players whose numbers we have. It would up his career blocks per game to 2.80 and his career block percentage to about 4.00 It also means that for Kareem's first 13 years--a period where he played more than 43000 minutes (about as many as Hakeem played in his career), he averaged 3.54 blocks a game.

[tsherkin]

Interesting take, thanks.

[Doctor MJ]

Like take a player's career highs in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks and pretend they are from one game.

I'm sure Wilt unofficially has, since blocks and steals weren't recorded back then, but I can't think of anyone officially.

Wilt had 16 unofficial quadruple doubles WITHOUT combining career highs lol. I'm certain he's had 10 steals at one point in his career.

The NBA record since they started tracking in the early 70s is 11, and according to b-r.com, Hakeem's best is 5. If you're aware of an anecdote where people talk about Wilt stealing the ball left & right, I'd like to here it. Otherwise I think you're naive to assume that Wilt would rack up mind-boggling numbers in stats that big men are below average at.

[Mayap]

Oh 11 steals is the highest amount ever recorded in a game? Ok then never mind....then what's the point of this thread lol. If only one person has gotten 11 steals and maybe a few have gotten 10, then nobody other than perhaps West has gotten a quintuple double.

[Sedale Threatt]

We have block and steal statistics for one year of Jerry West’s career--1974. He was 35 and had already played a ton of minutes (almost 36000 regular season) at the beginning of the year. He was injured and didn’t play much that year. He had 23 blocks in 967 minutes…about a block every 42 minutes. Here is a list of players over the age of 30 (not 35) that played 50 games in a season and averaged a block every 41 minutes.

The amazing thing about Jerry's last year is that, despite being old and injured, he still averaged 2.6 steals per game, which would have been good enough to lead the league in many of the seasons that followed his retirement. It staggers to think what his numbers would have been in his prime. He would have set the standard so high that nobody, not even Stockton, could have caught him.

Regarding the blocks, I just finished his new biography, and there are plenty of comments about how adept he was at blocking shots, especially from behind. I have to wonder if he'd ever have ever gotten to 10, considering not even Tim Duncan has gotten that high, but it was certainly an area of the game for which he is credited for being extremely skilled. As if he needed any more.

[Mascot]

Steve Nash
42 Points
22 Ast
13 Rebs
5 Stls
2 Blks
10 TOs

Shaq (sooooo close)
61 Points
10 Ast
28 Rebs
5 Stls
7 Blks
9 TOs

LeBron James
56 Points
15 Ast
19 Rebs
7 Stls
5 Blks
10 TOs

Jason Kidd
43 Pts
25 Asts
19 Rebs
6 Stls
2 Blks
14 TOs

[frozt]

Lamar Odom: 34/22/12/9/5

[bryant08]

Josh Smith:
38 points
22 rebounds
10 assists
10 blocks
7 steals

[Jimmy76]

alvin robertson:
41 points
16 rebounds
17 assists
10 steals
5 blocks

seems like you can have steals or blocks but not both

[shawngoat23]

If you believe Hoopedia, then I'm almost certain Jerry West has done it:

West was motivated by a relentless drive to succeed. Years after a game in which he hit 16 of 17 shots from the field, sank all 12 free throw attempts, and notched 12 rebounds, 12 assists, and 10 blocked shots, West told the National Sports Daily, "Defensively, from a team standpoint, I didn't feel I played very well. Very rarely was I satisfied with how I played." This obsessive quest for perfection was a constant during West's playing years, and it continued in his later roles as coach and general manager of the Lakers and, currently, as president of basketball operations for the Memphis Grizzlies.

That's a quadruple double in one game without steals, and given that he was probably the most prolific player of all-time in steals (as he was an elite defender with a nose for the ball who also happened to play in the 1960's at an incredible pace factor), and I would bet he's had 10 steals in a game. Not that it's an easy task for him, but given the best estimates I've heard for his steals (in his prime) and comparing him with distributions of other players who were almost as prolific, I'd be mildly surprised if he's never achieved 10 steals in a game.