RealGM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/w ... index.html

Bryant poses a particularly vexing -- or would that be malodorous? -- problem for such men. Whereas some players rely on favorite moves or possess obvious strengths and weaknesses (for example, LeBron James, despite his improved jumper, remains far more effective in the paint than on the perimeter), Bryant is remarkably well-rounded. According to Synergy Sports Technology, which logs every play of every NBA game, Bryant drove right 49.01% of the time this season and left 50.99% of the time. In Synergy's finely parsed statistical analysis, he ranked in the top 20% of the league in (deep breath): shots off cuts, shots off screens, spot-up attempts, shots against single coverage in the post and off one-on-one isolation moves (and he's only slightly less effective in pick and rolls and transition). Lakers assistant coach Brian Shaw used to guard Bryant every day in practice when the two were teammates and is all too familiar with the challenge. "He really has no weaknesses," says Shaw. "And he has the knowledge and the ability to say, I'm going to send you to this spot on the floor where only I know I'm going to take you, and I'm going to raise up and take my shot before you can contest it."

I know alot of people on this site try to convince themselves that the only reason Kobe is still viewed by a majority in NBA circles as the best player in the world is because of respect. So I was reading this article from last years playoffs and was interested in this part. I know stat heads around here think they know everything but you gotta wonder why NBA people who have every stat out there still go with Kobe as the best.

I think this paragraph explains it perfectly. What PER and all these other stats that are cited around here don't measure is how difficult it is for an opponent to prepare for a player. It really don't even tell us how effective a player is.

Kobe gets the respect as the best because his game is so well rounded and because people just don't know how to stop him. At least there are strategies to stopping LeBron. You may not suceed but at least he has weaknesses. Kobe simply has no weaknesses as a player.

I would be interested in seeing alot more of these advanced stats that NBA teams use when preparing for opposing players. It would be interesting to see how effective LeBron and others are at different facets of the game.

so is the reasoning: he takes one of the most shots in certain areas/situations on the court and drives on both sides approximately the same percentage of times?

What about absolute effectiveness, including turnovers, assists and FT's? or comparing the number of his drives to his other shots? Normally, you're suppose to be more effective in the paint, so does that mean Kobe's that much better in the perimeter, or that much worse in the paint, or somewhere inbetween? The part you bolded doesn't really mean anything, only the frequency and volume at which he does things.

By the way, the "NBA people" out there aren't statisticians, the stat experts are usually the ones who bring Kobe down a notch..even though they don't interpret the stats the right way at times. You guys gotta realize that a lot of the people in this business aren't very smart. Their level of observation/interpretation/logic/analysis are all pretty low.

What was the point of this thread?, quit nuthugging kobe ffs.

I doubt most people in the NBA use these stats to determine that Kobe is the best.

They think he is the best because he is the best.

Not again.......

Kobe should replace Ban Ki-moon as United Nations Secretary-General.

Good article. now get ready for the backlash.

I don't really understand the Kobe>LeBron arguments, Kobe's better why? Because he's a more versatile scorer? Then again I don't get the Kobe>Duncan/Shaq/Hakeem arguments either. Let's just ignore LeBron being a more efficent scorer, better defender, rebounder, better passer, and more versatile player. Let's ignore the fact that the Cavs almost have the same record as the Lakers, despite LeBron having a far less talented supporting cast and coach. Let's ignore that the Lakers win regardless of whether Kobe is shooting 2-18 or 18-26. All because Kobe is a more verstile scorer.

Harder to prepare for =/= the best.

Shaq in his prime was easier to prepare for (how could you prepare for him?) than guys like Duncan, or Garnett, in terms of versatility or what spots on the floor they might exploit, but it didn't make those guys better than O'neal.

I wouldn't say Kobe doesn't have weaknesses. Boston's defense made him look pretty weak in the 2008 Finals. Faced with constricting team defense, Kobe's overconfidence in his ability to make tough outside shots is probably his weakness.

ok. Kobe is the G.O.A.T. , we got it.

Original Baller wrote:Kobe gets the respect as the best because his game is so well rounded and because people just don't know how to stop him. At least there are strategies to stopping LeBron. You may not suceed but at least he has weaknesses. Kobe simply has no weaknesses as a player.

How about himself?

Kobe has hit less than 40% of his field goals in 5 out of 10 games this month. Does he cut down on his shooting? Heck no, he attempted 23, 30, 37, 21, and 19 shots in those games.

LeBron has only shot under 40% 3 times all season, and none this month. He took 19, 21, and 23 shots in those games.

It's great that Kobe has so many ways to shoot a 2-pter, very impressive, but the most efficient shots on the court are at the rim and the 3pter and that's what shows up in LeBron's favor when it comes to the final numbers.

Everything else comes down to teammates and how much of the load they can carry when the defenses key on the star player, albeit I can understand if Laker's fans have expunged the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol years from their memory.

JonFromVA wrote:

Original Baller wrote:Kobe gets the respect as the best because his game is so well rounded and because people just don't know how to stop him. At least there are strategies to stopping LeBron. You may not suceed but at least he has weaknesses. Kobe simply has no weaknesses as a player.

How about himself?

Kobe has hit less than 40% of his field goals in 5 out of 10 games this month. Does he cut down on his shooting? Heck no, he attempted 23, 30, 37, 21, and 19 shots in those games.

LeBron has only shot under 40% 3 times all season, and none this month. He took 19, 21, and 23 shots in those games.

It's great that Kobe has so many ways to shoot a 2-pter, very impressive, but the most efficient shots on the court are at the rim and the 3pter and that's what shows up in LeBron's favor when it comes to the final numbers.

Everything else comes down to teammates and how much of the load they can carry when the defenses key on the star player, albeit I can understand if Laker's fans have expunged the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol years from their memory.

Wait until the playoffs and then we'll see Lebron's true colors again. There are few players in the history of the NBA more dependent on the superstar whistle than Lebron James.

Interesting enough article, but... Kobe still gets just under 50% of his points from jumpers (which comprises 72% of his shots), which is an improvement on previous years. Jump shooters can be defended by a disciplined team defence, and if their jumper isn't falling then there's a limited effect they can have on games.

Lebron OTOH gets a smidge over 30% of his points from jumpers (with a 2% difference to the worse in shooting vs Kobe). The difference between FT isn't huge either, Lebron's got one more made FT per game and an additional two attempts. (You can make the "crab dribble" argument in terms of his success on penetration, for sure, but Kobe's got away with (more than) a few dodgy dribbles himself). And 20% is a big statistical swathe of players so although it DOES speak to having a well rounded game, it's not for mine a straight-ahead proof of excellence.

I've come to some grudging appreciation of Kobe for the sustained excellence over the past year or two, but I still don't agree with the unconditional assertion that he's a combination of MJ and Wilt.

Whats the % of left to right for Lamar Odom???

this is in the stat forum?

I have a friend who's 5'6 who's got a 36 inch vert and can dunk a basketball if he's gets a running start. I have another friend who's 6'7 and has problems dunking flatfooted. However at the end of the day, the guy who's 6'7 is a better dunker (he can dunk without traveling). However, the guy who's 5'6 is easily the more impressive dunker.

So... lebron is the better scorer, but Kobe's a more impressive scorer. does this analogy fit? don't we know this already in our heart of hearts?

NetsForce wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

Original Baller wrote:Kobe gets the respect as the best because his game is so well rounded and because people just don't know how to stop him. At least there are strategies to stopping LeBron. You may not suceed but at least he has weaknesses. Kobe simply has no weaknesses as a player.

How about himself?

Kobe has hit less than 40% of his field goals in 5 out of 10 games this month. Does he cut down on his shooting? Heck no, he attempted 23, 30, 37, 21, and 19 shots in those games.

LeBron has only shot under 40% 3 times all season, and none this month. He took 19, 21, and 23 shots in those games.

It's great that Kobe has so many ways to shoot a 2-pter, very impressive, but the most efficient shots on the court are at the rim and the 3pter and that's what shows up in LeBron's favor when it comes to the final numbers.

Everything else comes down to teammates and how much of the load they can carry when the defenses key on the star player, albeit I can understand if Laker's fans have expunged the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol years from their memory.

Wait until the playoffs and then we'll see Lebron's true colors again. There are few players in the history of the NBA more dependent on the superstar whistle than Lebron James.

Lebron was a beast in last years playoffs.

so kobe is better than lebron because he drives to his left and right equally and because his shot types vary more? that's like saying gilbert arenas is a better free throw shooter than steve nash because his ft routine is fancier

I'll take one unstoppable move over five thousand above average moves.

We haven't even started talking about rebounding, defense, and passing.

Kobe has a greater arsenal and is the more polished offensive player in the post. No one will argue that.

pancakes3 wrote:So... lebron is the better scorer, but Kobe's a more impressive scorer. does this analogy fit? don't we know this already in our heart of hearts?

So true. While Kobe is an extremely versatile scorer, there's something else that adds to the impression people get when watching him: Kobe is the best tough-shot-maker ever.

MJ created a lot of space on his pull-up J and his fadeaway. LeBron shoots 'easy-looking' shots around the rim and defenders back off him on the perimeter giving him mostly uncontested jumpers. I have never seen a player have a hand in his face on such a high percentage of his shots as Kobe. The surprising thing is that Kobe makes a much higher percentage of contested shots than anyone else I've seen.

Even Melo, Wade, Nowitzki, and Durant get themselves more open looks than Kobe does.

It's arguable which is the more impressive skill (although it's less arguable which is the more spectacular skill).