The 2022 Rookies

[Dat2U]

Well, either way you look at it... those that wanted Eason instead were right. Tommy (and the Wizards) really struggles in the draft.

Last five 1sts: Brown (becomes Gafford), Hachumura, Avdija, Kispert and Davis.

That is completely ridiculous. Eason is literally posting a 52% TS. He hasn’t even shown that he can play in the NBA.

And here I thought Payit had the most wonky analysis. The way you judge these rookies like their seasoned vets is ridiculous. Your the first person that made a 21 year old player sound old and incapable of improving .

[payitforward]

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=donovan-mitchell--collin-sexton--jaden-ivey

Mitchell was a better shooter on more volume ...in college....

LOL. Better reread your own stats!

Mitchell was not as good a shooter as Ivey in college.
On slightly lower volume overall.

But... so what?
How good Ivey is going to be in the NBA is utterly unrelated to anything about Donovan Mitchell.

For that matter, you don't know how good or bad he'll be, & neither does Dat.
Neither does Zards for that matter, & neither do I.

What are you going to do? Sit there & hope some kid fails at his life's dream, so you can be right?

I’m not really sure what you are looking at.

Ivey shot a worse % from 3 on fewer attempts than Mitchell did in college. Also a lower % from the free throw line.

Also, why would I as a wizards fan, not be rooting for other teams and players to fail. It’s a competitive sport. Kind of a pathetic attempt at virtue signaling.

I can't help you on the last point. I don't root for 21-year-old kids to fail.
I think only twerps do that.

Ivey's TS% as a Sophomore -- .567
Mitchell's TS% as a Sophomore -- .534

[payitforward]

From the link you sent, Ivey shot 35.8% from 3 in college and Mitchell shot 35.4% from 3. Although I'm guessing that Mitchell was a better overall shooter in his sophomore season.

No.
Ivey was a better shooter as a Sophomore than Mitchell was as a Sophomore.

But, Mitchell has developed tremendously in the NBA. To his credit. He's a far better player now -- in particular he's a far better scorer than back then. A lot better than his first few NBA years as well.

Nat has decided that a similar option is not available for Ivey. & he can justify it by the fact that he wants everyone else's draft picks & players to fail.

[payitforward]

Well, either way you look at it... those that wanted Eason instead were right. Tommy (and the Wizards) really struggles in the draft....

That is completely ridiculous. Eason is literally posting a 52% TS. He hasn’t even shown that he can play in the NBA.

I don't know what's gotten into you, man. Whatever it is, I hope you get past it soon.

[NatP4]

Well, either way you look at it... those that wanted Eason instead were right. Tommy (and the Wizards) really struggles in the draft.

Last five 1sts: Brown (becomes Gafford), Hachumura, Avdija, Kispert and Davis.

That is completely ridiculous. Eason is literally posting a 52% TS. He hasn’t even shown that he can play in the NBA.

And here I thought Payit had the most wonky analysis. The way you judge these rookies like their seasoned vets is ridiculous. Your the first person that made a 21 year old player sound old and incapable of improving .

Not at all. I simply made the point that Ivey isn’t some 19 year old raw prospect. He played two full years at Purdue and is 21 years old. He can definitely still improve, but he is what he is in a lot of ways. He won’t develop court vision or defensive IQ/Motor.

Eason is about to be 22, there is nothing impressive about his rookie season. He’ll be an energy hustle big off the bench, that’s about it. No idea how that’s worth the 10th overall pick. It’s bizarre that people are concluding that it was the “right” pick instead of Davis already. That is just totally wrong.

[DCZards]

Not at all. I simply made the point that Ivey isn’t some 19 year old raw prospect. He played two full years at Purdue and is 21 years old. He can definitely still improve, but he is what he is in a lot of ways. He won’t develop court vision or defensive IQ/Motor.

Court vision? Ivey averaged 5.1 assists this season. He led all rookies in assists by almost one full assist. He had an 11,12 and 13 assist game, and at least 12 games where he had 8-10 assists.

Not bad for a 20-21 yr old rookie playing on a team with very few offensive weapons.

[dckingsfan]

That is completely ridiculous. Eason is literally posting a 52% TS. He hasn’t even shown that he can play in the NBA.

And here I thought Payit had the most wonky analysis. The way you judge these rookies like their seasoned vets is ridiculous. Your the first person that made a 21 year old player sound old and incapable of improving .

Not at all. I simply made the point that Ivey isn’t some 19 year old raw prospect. He played two full years at Purdue and is 21 years old. He can definitely still improve, but he is what he is in a lot of ways. He won’t develop court vision or defensive IQ/Motor.

Eason is about to be 22, there is nothing impressive about his rookie season. He’ll be an energy hustle big off the bench, that’s about it. No idea how that’s worth the 10th overall pick. It’s bizarre that people are concluding that it was the “right” pick instead of Davis already. That is just totally wrong.

Guilty as charged...

[closg00]

Let's get to the ROY contest itself, can anyone beat Paolo Banchero?
https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-march-29-2023-edition
https://sportsnaut.com/nba-rookie-of-the-year-candidates/
https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/rookie-of-the-year/

[Kanyewest]

Let's get to the ROY contest itself, can anyone beat Paolo Banchero?
https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-march-29-2023-edition
https://sportsnaut.com/nba-rookie-of-the-year-candidates/
https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/rookie-of-the-year/

Analytical arguments can be made for Jalen Williams- just think the media will go with Paulo.

[payitforward]

Not at all. I simply made the point that Ivey isn’t some 19 year old raw prospect. He played two full years at Purdue and is 21 years old. He can definitely still improve, but he is what he is in a lot of ways. He won’t develop court vision or defensive IQ/Motor.

Court vision? Ivey averaged 5.1 assists this season. He led all rookies in assists by almost one full assist. He had an 11,12 and 13 assist game, and at least 12 games where he had 8-10 assists.

Not bad for a 20-21 yr old rookie playing on a team with very few offensive weapons.

Agreed.
Basically, Ivey's problems as a rookie were two: he turned the ball over a lot, & he took an above average number of shots at lower than average percentages.

They were big enough problems that no one can say he's played well overall -- in the sense of having posted overall numbers that are among the better rookies.

But, his assist numbers are a strong positive predictor. As is the fact that he got to the line a whole lot. I also don't see why someone as athletic as he can't be a more than adequate defender.

Aside from Nat's seemingly irrational one-sidedness, I do agree with him that no one can look at Jaden Ivey & be anything like sure he's going to be an especially good player. He hasn't shown that.

[NatP4]

And he was one of the 10 worst defensive players in the NBA. We ignore this over and over, but that will be the reason that he bounces around from team to team in a couple of years on 1 year contracts.

[NatP4]

Let's get to the ROY contest itself, can anyone beat Paolo Banchero?
https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-march-29-2023-edition
https://sportsnaut.com/nba-rookie-of-the-year-candidates/
https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/rookie-of-the-year/

Analytical arguments can be made for Jalen Williams- just think the media will go with Paulo.

Why not Keegan Murray? Been a good player on a good team.

[dckingsfan]

Let's get to the ROY contest itself, can anyone beat Paolo Banchero?
https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-march-29-2023-edition
https://sportsnaut.com/nba-rookie-of-the-year-candidates/
https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/rookie-of-the-year/

Analytical arguments can be made for Jalen Williams- just think the media will go with Paulo.

Why not Keegan Murray? Been a good player on a good team.

This! Arguably the best rookie on a winning team...

[Kanyewest]

Let's get to the ROY contest itself, can anyone beat Paolo Banchero?
https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-march-29-2023-edition
https://sportsnaut.com/nba-rookie-of-the-year-candidates/
https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/rookie-of-the-year/

Analytical arguments can be made for Jalen Williams- just think the media will go with Paulo.

Why not Keegan Murray? Been a good player on a good team.

Jalen Williams has a higher TS%, slightly more rebounds, significantly more points, slightly more points per game, while being a better defensive player than Murray. Murray has been better from 3 and part of a winning team. Still think the media is going to vote for Paulo though.

[payitforward]

Murray's been better than Banchero, that's for sure. As have a whole lot of rookies for that matter.

I think the only two realistic candidates are Paolo Banchero & Jalen Williams.
Williams has been terrific, while Banchero has been pretty awful. But I'd be willing to put money on Banchero walking away with the award.

It's odd that Walker Kessler gets no mentions. He's pretty clearly been the best rookie in overall productivity -- by a mile! -- & he's played over 1750 minutes too.

Don't get me wrong -- I wouldn't expect to see him get it, but I would expect some talk about him in RoY context.

Duren has been really good as well. He could wind up having the best career overall of any of these guys. Eason's having a terrific rookie season as well.

[Kanyewest]

I would be surprised if Kessler gets any first place votes. Yes he's very efficient (72 FG%) but I don't recall a rookie averaging less than 10 ppg getting any 1st place votes.

[DCZards]

Basically, Ivey's problems as a rookie were two: he turned the ball over a lot, & he took an above average number of shots at lower than average percentages.

They were big enough problems that no one can say he's played well overall -- in the sense of having posted overall numbers that are among the better rookies.

Ivey’s problems had a lot to do with the team he was on and the role he was asked to play. His TOs and high # of shot attempts were largely a direct result of Jaden being asked to be the Pistons primary scorer and ballhandler, especially after Cunningham and then Bogdanovic went out for the season.

Put Ivey on OKC next to a young superstar like SGA and an outstanding talent like Giddey and his role changes significantly. His shot attempts are almost certain to go down as well has his ballhandling responsibilities. I’d expect him to be more efficient and have fewer TOs in that role.

[closg00]

Murray's been better than Banchero, that's for sure. As have a whole lot of rookies for that matter.

I think the only two realistic candidates are Paolo Banchero & Jalen Williams.
Williams has been terrific, while Banchero has been pretty awful. But I'd be willing to put money on Banchero walking away with the award.

It's odd that Walker Kessler gets no mentions. He's pretty clearly been the best rookie in overall productivity -- by a mile! -- & he's played over 1750 minutes too.

Don't get me wrong -- I wouldn't expect to see him get it, but I would expect some talk about him in RoY context.

Duren has been really good as well. He could wind up having the best career overall of any of these guys. Eason's having a terrific rookie season as well.

On this betting odds site, he is 3rd on the list.
https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/rookie-of-the-year/

[payitforward]

Basically, Ivey's problems as a rookie were two: he turned the ball over a lot, & he took an above average number of shots at lower than average percentages.

They were big enough problems that no one can say he's played well overall -- in the sense of having posted overall numbers that are among the better rookies.

Ivey’s problems had a lot to do with the team he was on and the role he was asked to play. His TOs and high # of shot attempts were largely a direct result of Jaden being asked to be the Pistons primary scorer and ballhandler, especially after Cunningham and then Bogdanovic went out for the season.

Put Ivey on OKC next to a young superstar like SGA and an outstanding talent like Giddey and his role changes significantly. His shot attempts are almost certain to go down as well has his ballhandling responsibilities. I’d expect him to be more efficient and have fewer TOs in that role.

Sure! But, at this point all you can do is look at what information you have.

That said, what I don't understand is the desire to hate on Jaden Ivey, single him out to treat like he's some exceptional case which, somehow, "proves" something (I don't know what...).

[FAH1223]

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