Official Summer League 2023

[Dat2U]

Im not high on PBJr at all. I would have kept the 59th pick over him but I'm not upset at kicking the tires on him for a year. Its just that IMO he has exactly one NBA skill and it's not good enough to compensate for all the things he doesn't do at an NBA level.

[nate33]

Im not high on PBJr at all. I would have kept the 59th pick over him but I'm not upset at kicking the tires on him for a year. Its just that IMO he has exactly one NBA skill and it's not good enough to compensate for all the things he doesn't do at an NBA level.

Yeah, I'm not impressed with PBJ. The one hope is that he is still not at 100% because of the injury. Maybe his lateral mobility improves as he puts the injury further in the rear view mirror and can train more with his core and leg strength.

But if he remains as stiff as he was in Summer League, he is not an NBA player.

[NatP4]

Im not high on PBJr at all. I would have kept the 59th pick over him but I'm not upset at kicking the tires on him for a year. Its just that IMO he has exactly one NBA skill and it's not good enough to compensate for all the things he doesn't do at an NBA level.

Yeah, I'm not impressed with PBJ. The one hope is that he is still not at 100% because of the injury. Maybe his lateral mobility improves as he puts the injury further in the rear view mirror and can train more with his core and leg strength.

But if he remains as stiff as he was in Summer League, he is not an NBA player.

All of the plays in which he floated on the perimeter defensively, while his man crashed the offensive glass for an easy putback, had nothing to do with athleticism. There’s a serious lack of feel for the game.

But yeah, like everyone has said, why not give him a year to show something? It’s an obvious move. Pretending he’s a good prospect at this point is total nonsense though.

[Silvie Lysandra]

i think he's pretty bad but you know, if he ends up being Davis Bertans someone (not us) might overpay for him!

[gambitx777]

i think he's pretty bad but you know, if he ends up being Davis Bertans someone (not us) might overpay for him!

Thos guys always get over paid


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[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Im not high on PBJr at all. I would have kept the 59th pick over him but I'm not upset at kicking the tires on him for a year. Its just that IMO he has exactly one NBA skill and it's not good enough to compensate for all the things he doesn't do at an NBA level.

Yeah, I'm not impressed with PBJ. The one hope is that he is still not at 100% because of the injury. Maybe his lateral mobility improves as he puts the injury further in the rear view mirror and can train more with his core and leg strength.

But if he remains as stiff as he was in Summer League, he is not an NBA player.

I dunno. I rewatched the GSW summer league game last night. He did a lot of things that don’t show up in the stat sheet. Made a couple of nice ‘hockey’ assists, got in a couple of tips for his teammates to snag rebounds, made some decent cuts.

I think with PBnJ it will always be about his motor. Can he speed things up and play with consistent energy and intensity?

[payitforward]

Agreed.
He has the single most important skill -- he's an outstanding shooter -- & his BBIQ is noticeable. He's usually in the right place on defense, etc. Just have to see if he can his body to an acceptable state.

[doclinkin]

I think with PBnJ it will always be about his motor. Can he speed things up and play with consistent energy and intensity?

I think its also about health. I think he plays tentative because he caught an injury early that took him out for 2 years off and on. If he gets physically stronger, in his core, flexibility, stamina, durability, then he won't shy away from contact underneath.

Until then though I think he will be best in a role as a wing forward. A tall SF, a Davis Bertans role coming off motion and not risking banging underneath.

I'm liking the idea of Gallinari as a mentor for the tall face-up bigs we have on the squad.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Even one dimensional shooters get paid in the NBA and have value. A Davis Bertans with passable or even slightly negative defense actually has real value, and he has the potential to be a bit more. But he is not there yet by any means.

[DCZards]

Im not high on PBJr at all. I would have kept the 59th pick over him but I'm not upset at kicking the tires on him for a year. Its just that IMO he has exactly one NBA skill and it's not good enough to compensate for all the things he doesn't do at an NBA level.

Yeah, I'm not impressed with PBJ. The one hope is that he is still not at 100% because of the injury. Maybe his lateral mobility improves as he puts the injury further in the rear view mirror and can train more with his core and leg strength.

But if he remains as stiff as he was in Summer League, he is not an NBA player.

I dunno. I rewatched the GSW summer league game last night. He did a lot of things that don’t show up in the stat sheet. Made a couple of nice ‘hockey’ assists, got in a couple of tips for his teammates to snag rebounds, made some decent cuts.

I think with PBnJ it will always be about his motor. Can he speed things up and play with consistent energy and intensity?

Those were the sort of things I noticed as well. He's also got a decent handle in the open court as well, going end-to-end on at least one occasion and finishing the play with a nice assist to a teammate. He's certainly capable of being a more well-rounded player than Bertans.

Health, as others have pointed out, will be the big issue. I think a healthy PBJ is an NBA rotation player.

[pcbothwel]

Even one dimensional shooters get paid in the NBA and have value. A Davis Bertans with passable or even slightly negative defense actually has real value, and he has the potential to be a bit more. But he is not there yet by any means.

The key to these elite shooting, poor defensive players (Kispert, Bertans, PBJ, etc.) is volume/usage.
Every defensive possession they are a liability and usually targeted. So you have to balance that with giving them enough shots to out pace their poor defense.
There is roughly 1 offensive & 1 defensive possession per minute. So if you play ~24 MPG, then thats 25 defensive possessions you have to counter... Taking 4-5 shots simply isnt enough.
You have to play these players when they can somewhat hid defensively, and then let them fire away for 8-10 minutes.

[nate33]

Even one dimensional shooters get paid in the NBA and have value. A Davis Bertans with passable or even slightly negative defense actually has real value, and he has the potential to be a bit more. But he is not there yet by any means.

The key to these elite shooting, poor defensive players (Kispert, Bertans, PBJ, etc.) is volume/usage.
Every defensive possession they are a liability and usually targeted. So you have to balance that with giving them enough shots to out pace their poor defense.
There is roughly 1 offensive & 1 defensive possession per minute. So if you play ~24 MPG, then thats 25 defensive possessions you have to counter... Taking 4-5 shots simply isnt enough.
You have to play these players when they can somewhat hid defensively, and then let them fire away for 8-10 minutes.

We need to dial back this talk of Baldwin being an "elite" shooter. He has a nice shooting stroke, but so far in his career, the results have been quite a bit shy of elite.

In his one-and-done freshman season, he shot just 26.6% on 3's on 7.3 attempts per 36 minutes.
Last year with Golden State, he shot 38.1% on 84 total attempts - mostly during garbage time.
In Summer League, he shot 27.3% on 3's on 22 attempts.

[NatP4]

Also pretty mediocre in the G-league. 33% in 20 games.

[pcbothwel]

Even one dimensional shooters get paid in the NBA and have value. A Davis Bertans with passable or even slightly negative defense actually has real value, and he has the potential to be a bit more. But he is not there yet by any means.

The key to these elite shooting, poor defensive players (Kispert, Bertans, PBJ, etc.) is volume/usage.
Every defensive possession they are a liability and usually targeted. So you have to balance that with giving them enough shots to out pace their poor defense.
There is roughly 1 offensive & 1 defensive possession per minute. So if you play ~24 MPG, then thats 25 defensive possessions you have to counter... Taking 4-5 shots simply isnt enough.
You have to play these players when they can somewhat hid defensively, and then let them fire away for 8-10 minutes.

We need to dial back this talk of Baldwin being an "elite" shooter. He has a nice shooting stroke, but so far in his career, the results have been quite a bit shy of elite.

In his one-and-done freshman season, he shot just 26.6% on 3's on 7.3 attempts per 36 minutes.
Last year with Golden State, he shot 38.1% on 84 total attempts - mostly during garbage time.
In Summer League, he shot 27.3% on 3's on 22 attempts.

Could not agree more. I hated PBJ as a prospect and would have preferred Trayce Jackson over him in a heartbeat. I was speaking broadly.

[gambitx777]

The key to these elite shooting, poor defensive players (Kispert, Bertans, PBJ, etc.) is volume/usage.
Every defensive possession they are a liability and usually targeted. So you have to balance that with giving them enough shots to out pace their poor defense.
There is roughly 1 offensive & 1 defensive possession per minute. So if you play ~24 MPG, then thats 25 defensive possessions you have to counter... Taking 4-5 shots simply isnt enough.
You have to play these players when they can somewhat hid defensively, and then let them fire away for 8-10 minutes.

We need to dial back this talk of Baldwin being an "elite" shooter. He has a nice shooting stroke, but so far in his career, the results have been quite a bit shy of elite.

In his one-and-done freshman season, he shot just 26.6% on 3's on 7.3 attempts per 36 minutes.
Last year with Golden State, he shot 38.1% on 84 total attempts - mostly during garbage time.
In Summer League, he shot 27.3% on 3's on 22 attempts.

Could not agree more. I hated PBJ as a prospect and would have preferred Trayce Jackson over him in a heartbeat. I was speaking broadly.

I wouldn't have drafted Jackson I would have drafted someone 20 or younger. PBJ is fine if you don't make the mistakes of over paying for the shooting.

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[DCZards]

Slow day. So I thought I’d toss this opinion piece out there…just for the fun of it.

Read the entire article at link below. He has high praise for Bilal.

Washington Wizards: 3 winners and 3 losers from Summer League
by Gibson Lowenberg

Undoubtably, the biggest winner of the Washington Wizards’ Summer League was Patrick Baldwin Jr

Coming into the Summer League, Patrick Baldwin Jr was expected to be a catch and shoot specialist and a defensive liability. Not only has he proven he can do more than just catch and shoot, but he also looked like a quality NBA defender.

On offense, Baldwin Jr created looks for himself off the dribble time and time again, he also continued to be great off the catch. He even made some impressive reads with playmaking, making his offense a muti-layered attack and something the Wizards should look forward to.

One defense, he impressed even more. His timing was far improved from last season and as I’ve said many times before, he seemed far more involved both physically and mentally. This is a development that might make him a huge gain for the team as he was only a throw in last minute to the Chris Paul for Jordan Poole trade.

Patrick Baldwin Jr’s emergence in the Summer League will inevitably lead to him getting at least quality rotation minutes for the Washington Wizards early on in the season. He may even have an opportunity to compete for a starting role at some point in the year.

https://wizofawes.com/2023/07/21/washington-wizards-winners-losers-summer/

[doclinkin]

Ha! I can’t recall a single thing I’ve agreed with on that site. This article is no exception.

[nate33]

Slow day. So I thought I’d toss this opinion piece out there…just for the fun of it.

Read the entire article at link below. He has high praise for Bilal.

Washington Wizards: 3 winners and 3 losers from Summer League
by Gibson Lowenberg

Undoubtably, the biggest winner of the Washington Wizards’ Summer League was Patrick Baldwin Jr

Coming into the Summer League, Patrick Baldwin Jr was expected to be a catch and shoot specialist and a defensive liability. Not only has he proven he can do more than just catch and shoot, but he also looked like a quality NBA defender.

On offense, Baldwin Jr created looks for himself off the dribble time and time again, he also continued to be great off the catch. He even made some impressive reads with playmaking, making his offense a muti-layered attack and something the Wizards should look forward to.

One defense, he impressed even more. His timing was far improved from last season and as I’ve said many times before, he seemed far more involved both physically and mentally. This is a development that might make him a huge gain for the team as he was only a throw in last minute to the Chris Paul for Jordan Poole trade.

Patrick Baldwin Jr’s emergence in the Summer League will inevitably lead to him getting at least quality rotation minutes for the Washington Wizards early on in the season. He may even have an opportunity to compete for a starting role at some point in the year.

https://wizofawes.com/2023/07/21/washington-wizards-winners-losers-summer/

Was that article written by PBJ's agent? WTF? A quality NBA defender? Is he serious?

PBJ posted a 3P% of .273. He didn't even show the "shooting specialist" part of it, much less anything else. He shot a grand total of 4 FT's in 4 games, so he wasn't creating great looks with his dribble drive game or demonstrating a "multi-layered attack" either. He averaged just 5 rebounds in 27 minutes a game despite his 6-10 height. He had literally 0 offensive rebounds in 4 games. lol.

The only thing that was remotely interesting was his 2.3 assists per game to just 0.8 turnovers, suggesting unselfishness and a solid feel for the game offensively.

[jangles86]

2023-2011 = over 15 years = Australian maths

Had another account that I forgot the password too and forgot the username and email too. Had a rest then came back when we drafted John Wall.

Was reading these forums when Agent zero was playing. Game day threads were much better then. Got to know more cheerleaders.