GT #81: WIZ @Bulls 8pm 4/11/2025

[payitforward]

TGW... you're a key part of this wacky forum! & no one can say you lack consistency. Keep on keeping on good buddy!

[nate33]

I continue to be amazed people are upset with us having a horrible season, the right freaking year.

Like, this is literally the best thing that could have happened in '25. Lots of playing time for kiddos, and a highly effective tank, for now.

We are doing it again next year, and good. It's not horrible, it's perfect, for pre-lottery.

I would take the Redskins '23 season 20 times in a row if it meant a franchise QB without blinking instead of the horror that was 1993-2023.

This is hope, and many of you seem to view it as torture. I simply do not get it, at all. What was good about 25-40 wins a year and no chance whatsoever for 45 years? Seriously, yet you'd think that was preferred to actual hope. Crazy to me. Absolutely crazy.

"Lot's of playing time for the kiddos..." is that supposed to be a good thing? Did they actually learn how to play organized, professional basketball, or were the games glorified pickup games? From the games that I stomached thru, it wasn't much better than a rec game at your local gym. Just putrid basketball. So nothing gained from the playing time IMO. Especially considering that none of the playing time was actually earned.

Not only that, I don't see anyone on this roster as a cornerstone. That's my opinion, I know you homers don't like it, but no one impresses me. Your MVP this season was arguably Champangnie or Poole...that should tell you something about how **** this roster is.

And how do you know how effective the tank is? Until the tank turns into legitimate franchise players (which it hasn't), it's way too early to say this is an effective tank. The only thing we know is that they have a 14% chance of the number one pick in a draft where there's only 1 guaranteed star, and that ain't good odds buddy.

In a way, you're both right.

It was an effective season in that we tanked a lot and played the young guys a lot. I'm not sure what else a rebuilding team is supposed to better. But at the same time, TGW is right that there isn't much of a reason to be particularly optimistic. None of the young players look like they are on an All-Star path. Maybe that changes in a year or two, but so far, it's not that promising.

I think the biggest emotional letdown was that Bilal tailed off after a good start. One month into the season, you could squint at the makings of an All-Star caliber player. His defense was terrific, his 3-pointer was improving (about 35% one month in), and he showed a newfound skill in getting to the basket off the bounce while also being a solid playmaker. But then his 3-ball went in the toilet (26.4% for the rest of the season) and then he got hurt. It's been a long time since we've seen those flashes of All-Star potential and it's easy to get discouraged.

[dobrojim]

I thought all 3 of our FRPs (not including AJJ who wasn't here long enough) benefited substantially from
getting big time minutes. This applied more to Bub
and KGeo. They were both a lot better at the end of
the season. Sarr probably somewhat less so.

[doclinkin]

Look nobody is good yet but all of our picks showed signs of being playable. All rookies suck except the instant superstars. Bub developed a jump shot. KGeo went from horrible from 3 to pretty reliable. George showed signs of good D and is among the leaders of 3pt shots defended per 36. Sarr went from 0-16 to a few games where he shot well from outside. In general all 3 trended upwards. If you get consistent improvement eventually you’ve got good players. Add a top pick and if they’ve done their homework right we get an infusion of real talent. Yeah we suck but at least there’s a plan that it’s intentional this time, with youth and not injured veterans, and therefore hopefully temporary. Shrug

[The Consiglieri]

I continue to be amazed people are upset with us having a horrible season, the right freaking year.

Like, this is literally the best thing that could have happened in '25. Lots of playing time for kiddos, and a highly effective tank, for now.

We are doing it again next year, and good. It's not horrible, it's perfect, for pre-lottery.

I would take the Redskins '23 season 20 times in a row if it meant a franchise QB without blinking instead of the horror that was 1993-2023.

This is hope, and many of you seem to view it as torture. I simply do not get it, at all. What was good about 25-40 wins a year and no chance whatsoever for 45 years? Seriously, yet you'd think that was preferred to actual hope. Crazy to me. Absolutely crazy.

"Lot's of playing time for the kiddos..." is that supposed to be a good thing? Did they actually learn how to play organized, professional basketball, or were the games glorified pickup games? From the games that I stomached thru, it wasn't much better than a rec game at your local gym. Just putrid basketball. So nothing gained from the playing time IMO. Especially considering that none of the playing time was actually earned.

Not only that, I don't see anyone on this roster as a cornerstone. That's my opinion, I know you homers don't like it, but no one impresses me. Your MVP this season was arguably Champangnie or Poole...that should tell you something about how **** this roster is.

And how do you know how effective the tank is? Until the tank turns into legitimate franchise players (which it hasn't), it's way too early to say this is an effective tank. The only thing we know is that they have a 14% chance of the number one pick in a draft where there's only 1 guaranteed star, and that ain't good odds buddy.

Here's the thing. This tank will last at minimum through April 2026. What's happening now in a game state means ---- all beyond experience, and growing, from the mistakes, and from the successes. This is year 2 of a 3-4 year process, I have little doubt that the players learning from mistakes, growing, and improving matters tangibly, but I also know that this team is highly unlikely to crest 40 wins until 2027 at the earliest. As such, this is the time for terrible moments, for inept stupidity, for lessons learned from the ---- ups that cost you nothing save some an embarrassment. People are pained by how ---- the games are, by the fact that through what was it, 70 or 75 games, I believe 45 of them were double digit losses (so very few close losses). I get that the team has been demonstrably ---- all year to varying degrees, but that is the price to pay to acquire the pre-lottery capital necessary for a top 5-6 pick, and a 40% chance of a top 3 pick. To build a potential winner requires and required this team to be horrible, to be built around kids consistently screwing up, to be built around the risk that you are teaching kids how to lose instead of how to win, and hoping that by 2026 or 2027, these mistakes are in the rearview mirror, and the bulk of the mistakes are in seasons of the past, often w/players irrelevant to the build in many instances (how many current players are on this roster when we might make a second consecutive playoff trip in 2027 or 2028 at the earliest? 3? 4? 5? At most. It's always fewer than you would expect or presume, and so often the consequences of epic losing, and horrible mistake both wane over time.).

All of those things added up are why I do not care. We have to suck to have any hope, and while it was a bitter pill to bottom out in the worst regarded class in a decade and probably a medal stand contender for worst of the century, we are still executing the tank, properly, to the extent we can do so. We can't control lottery #'s, we merely can control the odds we have to play with, be that this year, in the 14%-1, 27% 1 or 2, 40% 1 or 2 or 3, 53% 1-4 etc this year, and potentially better next year when we can execute the Suns pick swap if so needed. That's what we can do. It's a tough road, that will be filled with probably a good 190+ losses between october 2023 and April 2026, but it's the only path forward, as they say, the only way forward is through.

Nothing is guaranteed and I never said as much. I won't take too much offense, or be too irritated, w/being called a homer. You don't know me, and historically since I found this board nearly 20 years ago, I've been anything but a homer, but who would know, as I only tended to post during trade deadlines, and drafts because that's all I've really cared about for much of the Wizards/Boulez existence since I first started watching nearly 40 years ago: When the ---- are they ever going to try a proper tank and rebuild? Seriously when? And I've been kvetching since Reagan has been President about this very thing. So homer? Seriously homer? I thought Unseld was horse ----, I thought Pollin was trash, and laughed at people defending him for his philanthropy, as if that made him a competent sports owner, I ripped O'Malley, Jordan, Grunfeld, and everything inbetween. I've given everyone a touch of rope, but they've all hanged themselves with it, most nearly immediately. The team and franchise has been Clippers East for essentially 40-45 years depending upon if you value those constant 8 seed crap sides of the mid eighties (I do not, Moses and Jeff Malone or not). For me, I've just been waiting for some FO to finally get that the only hope for this franchise lay in lottery balls/numbers, and a genuine committment to ripping it out at the roots, and being willing to live with the 60-70 loss seasons that will accompany said effort. Now we're finally doing it, and it does not bother me in the least, it is something I genuinely celebrate, because it's essentially the only time I've ever felt hope for this franchise beyond say, June 2012, and probably June 1995 when we landed Wallace.

As for the scenario that it fails? Well, the odds say that we will not get Harper or Flagg (73% chance that our pick lands outside the top 2), and with the top heavy '26 class looking 3 deep for now, it's 60% against us then too. I'm not living in some fantasyland where I fundamentally believe Flagg and Dybantsa or Peterson will be on the floor in Wizards gear for game 1, 18 months from now in October '26. No, odds are heavily against that. However, the odds, for the first time really in my life time, since maybe the '12 draft lottery, or further back to a Front Court of Howard-Webber-Wallace, when i felt it was genuinely possible, and not single digit odds that this team could actually become great, because the truth is, probably other than two months the past 45ish years, I've never believed that for a second? But now? Now I know there's about a 1 in 4 chance we land a potential star, and an even better chance we land 1 star in '25 or '26, and even a reasonable chance of landing 2, in back to back drafts. That's something we have had no chance of since 1995, other than 2010-2013. So yeah, this does not bother me in the least, not at all. It's genuine hope. There is and was no hope in this team instead playing for 30-35 wins this year, or trying to reach 40 in '26, the hope is in the pain right now, just as the new commanders were born from one truly horrible, epic disaster of a final great accidental tank season from Ron, finally, for the first time in eons, the team cratered in a great QB class year (the only other times? 2003 and 2011, and we blew it in both of those drafts). This is the Wizards chance. Hopefully they get it done, and if they don't, what do they do? Try again, in '27, '28 and beyond. That's the league the NBA created, either you have stars, or you do not matter, period, and since we are not LA, and not NY or Miami, and lack any kind of history to offset the cities negative qualities (say, Boston), that's really the only road forward. Tanking and landing the star, or pulling a Milwaukee/Denver/OKC, and stealing him in the lottery, or threw an epic clown show trade (but I dont think after SGA and the Clippers disastatrade, and the Doncic implosion, many teams will be willing to indulge such stupid trades, and its usually us anyway, that are executing them).

So sit tight, cross your fingers, and hopefully we're either immensely lucky, or incredibly smart and find one outside the blue chip zone, that's the only road forward, and I'm completely fine with it, its the first road that can lead to genuine hope in more than a decade, and only the 2nd time I've seen them take such a decisive, and clever action in 30 years (and that team from 30 years ago immediately squandered it)

[DCZards]

"Lot's of playing time for the kiddos..." is that supposed to be a good thing? Did they actually learn how to play organized, professional basketball, or were the games glorified pickup games? From the games that I stomached thru, it wasn't much better than a rec game at your local gym. Just putrid basketball. So nothing gained from the playing time IMO. Especially considering that none of the playing time was actually earned.

I agree that the play was often sloppy and hard to watch. But that’s going to happen when you’re playing a bunch of young, inexperienced guys who barely know each other’s names. On the other hand, the fact that players like Bub, Sarr, and George got to play as many minutes as they did is a significant win for both the kiddos and a rebuilding Zards team...regardless of how poor or inconsistent their play may have been.

Not only that, I don't see anyone on this roster as a cornerstone. That's my opinion, I know you homers don't like it, but no one impresses me. Your MVP this season was arguably Champagnie or Poole...that should tell you something about how **** this roster is.

The roster was expected to be bad. We knew that before the season started. And you’re probably right about Champagnie being the MVP. He's been really impressive, especially of late. But we should keep in mind that Justin is 23 with three years of NBA experience, which gives him a distinct advantage over the rookies.

And how do you know how effective the tank is? Until the tank turns into legitimate franchise players (which it hasn't), it's way too early to say this is an effective tank. The only thing we know is that they have a 14% chance of the number one pick in a draft where there's only 1 guaranteed star, and that ain't good odds buddy.

There are at least two guaranteed stars in this year's draft...I’d add Harper to that list. But that’s the case with most NBA drafts. So it is what it is.

[payitforward]

One day soon... or will it take a while?... I know I'm going to read a positive post by our good buddy TGW. I'm telling you -- I am sure it's gonna happen!

-- Go Wiz!

(Edit: I just realized... who knows...? maybe I missed one?)