Shut-down Mode

[miller31time]

I brought this up in one of the game threads and it seemed like most agreed, but I want to get more peoples' opinions on the subject matter.

Do you think it would be a good idea for Butler and Daniels to completely shut it down until after the All-Star break? This includes all games in between and, yes, even the All-Star Game for Tough Juice.

My feeling is that we're not likely to win many, if any games with a 50% Caron and a 50% AD, so why not lose 1-2 games more, and actually have them 100% when they return, instead of constantly not being at full strength?

Should Caron and AD take a long break, even if it sacrifices us a few wins, or should they return ASAP to keep us afloat?

[clubbing_caveman]

Absolutely. Dont mind loosing 2 more games to get a healthy CB and AD. We've seen what happens when a player rushes back. If the 2 looses mean that we get AD and CB back at 100%, I'm all for it.

[doclinkin]

I'm fine with a few losses in shutdown mode. I get the feeling we can turn it on late and still catch a spot for the playoffs, and as far as seeding is concerned, there's nobody who scares me in the East. (Toronto maybe, since they match up well with us). This group, rested and healthy has a chance against anyone once we're in the post season.

In the meantime the rooks and young pups get valuable experience, and the coaching staff gets to play with line-ups with lower expectations. We get a mid-year training camp, and pre-season tune-up. Get to see who works well together as subs and second unit lines.

With mostly West Coast competition, we don't have to worry about as many 'tiebreakers' with head-to-head records vs Playoff opponents (either qualifying, seeding, or best case: home court advantage).

And sitting out teh All-star game, while it may hurt, would only add nasty motivation to Caron to keep teh eyes on the prize and make teams pay.

The only caveat? Longer minutes for the players we do have left, with such a short bench, we risk further injury to a critical player. But you'd rather risk it in a bench guy and have a healthy starter; and experience for the bench puppies will allow the starters to play fewer minutes later when the team is fully healthy tuned and running.

[closg00]

Yes, shut them down for now.

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

Like someone said, the key is as long as we make the playoffs. It doesn't matter the seedingl. This team, when healthy, can compete with anyone.

[MJG]

I'm not interested in bringing any injured player back before they are 100%, all-star break coming up or not. Maybe if we were in the playoffs, a live-or-die type of situation, but not in the middle of the season.

If either is healthy enough to go and play at their usual level though, I certainly do want them back as soon as possible. I certainly do not want to sit anyone who is fine as purely a precautionary measure.

[nate33]

FWIW, I ran the numbers for each player to see how they've played over the past 7 games since Butler went down (I'm counting the two games Butler played in the stretch because Butler clearly wasn't 100%).

Averages over last 7 games:

Code: Select all

Player        PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  MIN
jamison,anta 22.5  9.7  1.3  1.3  0.3  1.0 .437 .516 38.8
haywood,bren 11.8  6.5  0.8  0.2  1.2  2.0 .556 .634 28.3
blatche,andr 11.2  9.8  1.5  1.5  1.3  2.7 .492 .512 29.8
butler,caron 11.5  3.0  8.0  2.0  0.5  1.5 .354 .425 35.5
daniels,anto  7.8  2.0  3.0  1.0  0.0  0.8 .466 .541 28.0
young,nick    7.5  1.0  2.0  0.2  0.2  1.0 .429 .480 17.0
mason,roger  10.0  2.0  2.0  0.5  0.2  1.2 .500 .500 27.0
songaila,dar  4.8  2.7  2.2  0.7  0.0  1.0 .429 .480 18.0
stevenson,de 11.8  2.0  1.7  0.5  0.3  1.7 .417 .475 31.2
mcguire,domi  1.2  2.0  0.6  0.2  0.6  1.0 .500 .500  8.6
pecherov,ole  3.0  1.8  0.3  0.5  0.3  0.5 .344 .355 11.0

Pace adjusted per 40 over the last 7 games:

Code: Select all

Player        PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
jamison,anta 24.4 10.5  1.4  1.4  0.4  1.1 .437 .516 22.6
haywood,bren 17.6  9.7  1.2  0.2  1.7  3.0 .556 .634 18.4
blatche,andr 15.8 13.9  2.1  2.1  1.9  3.8 .492 .512 17.5
butler,caron 13.7  3.6  9.5  2.4  0.6  1.8 .354 .425 16.8
daniels,anto 11.7  3.0  4.5  1.5  0.0  1.2 .466 .541 13.4
young,nick   18.6  2.5  5.0  0.4  0.4  2.5 .429 .480 11.1
mason,roger  15.6  3.1  3.1  0.8  0.3  1.8 .500 .500 10.1
songaila,dar 11.3  6.2  5.1  1.6  0.0  2.3 .429 .480 10.7
stevenson,de 16.0  2.7  2.3  0.7  0.5  2.3 .417 .475  8.5
mcguire,domi  5.9  9.8  2.9  1.0  2.9  4.9 .500 .500  6.9
pecherov,ole 11.5  6.7  1.0  1.9  1.0  1.9 .344 .355  6.5

Blatche is playing well as we all knew. Haywood and Jamison are actually playing much better than I had thought. Jamison's shooting percentages stink though. Check out Nick Young's assist rate. Songaila is passing pretty well too. We need more assists out of our starting lineup.

Note: Butler played only 2 games in this stretch. Daniels played 5.

[LyricalRico]

Please shut these guys down, including the All-Star game for Butler. Send them to the Suns doctors' private medical practices with instructions to do whatever is needed to get them right.

[Joe_Wiz]

Yeah, give 'em another week off. Bring 'em back on the 19th -- later if necessary. Getting going on all cylinders in March is more important than the couple of extra games we might possibly (but probably won't) win if they play hurt now.

[Dat2U]

I agree that there's no real point in asking injured players to try to continue to compete when they are not near 100%. We aren't going to win many gamea with Caron or Antonio at 50% especially when EJ can't properly manage their minutes when their banged up. He's going to play them 38-40 minutes regardless if they suite up.

So let 'em get some rest and hopefully after the all-star break we'll be able to make a strong push for the playoff seedings with a relatively healthy roster.

I agree with Lyrical...we should have left them in Phoenix and have them talk to their medical staff. Maybe Gilbert should have a talk with them too.

[RickRoll_inDC]

this thought is something my dad and I were talking about just the other day. the next games on this road trip would be hard with Butler and Daniels, heck, they might even be hard with Gil in the mix too. not too much of a chance of winning with them, so let's just take a few hits and come back fighting after the break.

[BigA]

As of today, the Wizards are in 6th in the East, 4 GB 4th place Cleveland, and 3.5 GA of 9th place Indiana.

With 3-4 winnable games in February after the AS break, they'll be in pretty good position to make a run when Gilbert comes back, assuming Butler can get healthy. Tonight and Wednesday don't matter a whole lot.

[nate33]

Ivan Carter reports that Stevenson is hurting too. His knee is in real pain. EJ said he was playing on one leg. He can't sit because there are only two other healthy guards on the team. This is getting ridiculous.

If you take our injured team, and add a free agent veteran PF like P.J. Brown, the resulting team would make the playoffs in the East:

Arenas/Daniels
Stevenson/Daniels
Butler
P.J. Brown
Etan

[Rafael122]

Abe Pollin needs to invest in a world class medical team. Players get hurt all the time, but the fact that these players still have problems are ridiculous. Shaq has had hip/back pain, and all of a sudden he gets traded to Phoenix, gets treated by their medical staff and he's getting more flexibility as a result of their treatment. Meanwhile, our injuries get worse.

I swear, Daniels could say he broke his ankle, but the medical staff will probably put a bandaid on it and say he's good to go. I hope Ivan Carter opens up his eyes and realizes this is a recurring problem dating back many years.

[miller31time]

I just don't get them. If Caron hurts his ankle and a few days pass, and he still isn't 100%, wouldn't a competent medical staff say that the most important thing is to not re-aggravate it? Maybe not play the next game or the game after?

Unless Caron is just aching to get back onto the court so much so that he'd risk re-injuring (which ironically just happened) in spite of what the doc's said....but with our med. staff's history, I doubt that's the case.

[LyricalRico]

Abe Pollin needs to invest in a world class medical team. Players get hurt all the time, but the fact that these players still have problems are ridiculous. Shaq has had hip/back pain, and all of a sudden he gets traded to Phoenix, gets treated by their medical staff and he's getting more flexibility as a result of their treatment. Meanwhile, our injuries get worse.

Yep, I had the same thoughts. I was trying to find the amazyingly sucky Wiz medical staff thread but couldn't. Abe won't let Grunfeld sign more players cuz of the tax yet Abe won't pay for doctors competent enough to keep the players we already have on the floor.

If I were a Wizard I'd get a second opinion every single time.

[hands11]

I brought this up in one of the game threads and it seemed like most agreed, but I want to get more peoples' opinions on the subject matter.

Do you think it would be a good idea for Butler and Daniels to completely shut it down until after the All-Star break? This includes all games in between and, yes, even the All-Star Game for Tough Juice.

My feeling is that we're not likely to win many, if any games with a 50% Caron and a 50% AD, so why not lose 1-2 games more, and actually have them 100% when they return, instead of constantly not being at full strength?

Should Caron and AD take a long break, even if it sacrifices us a few wins, or should they return ASAP to keep us afloat?

I'm already on record as agreeing with this view but since there is a separate thread.

Not even a question. Yes.

I just hope AJ and DS make it to the break. Last game I heard them talking about DS is hurt.

[hands11]

I just don't get them. If Caron hurts his ankle and a few days pass, and he still isn't 100%, wouldn't a competent medical staff say that the most important thing is to not re-aggravate it? Maybe not play the next game or the game after?

Unless Caron is just aching to get back onto the court so much so that he'd risk re-injuring (which ironically just happened) in spite of what the doc's said....but with our med. staff's history, I doubt that's the case.

Great players want to play. Specially when their team is playing short handed. You can't count on the medical staff to stop them. You have to shut them down. If you and I can see it, then I'm sure the coaching staff can see that. I think it would be a stretch to expect that guidance to come from the GM.