Is tough Juice becoming Orange Juice?

[doclinkin]

I'll take 2 of whatever your drinking

Great post. You have a little poetry in you I see.

Like the way you made it a first person experience. I've done that before but I don't believe very often. Maybe I should more often. I like the way that reads.

Poetry? Nah, never touch the stuff.

[hands11]

Game 2 lost by 7
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270425005

Another amazing game from Hayes. 33 mins 2-13

But wow. Haywood played 19 minutes 5-6 13 pts. that didn't suck.

Etan did well in his 16 mins. 9 pts 5 rbs.

Ruffin 7 mins 2 pts

AB - eeeerrr. Zero

I guess the idea of playing BH/AB or ET/AB or ET/BH was just to out there for EJ at the time.

But Hayes for 33 minutes. That's a no brainier.

Maybe this is the game you want to defend ?

I'll stop here because I think the point has been made. EJ was a stubborn SOB. He sets rules in his head like a certain player isn't playing because he is young and he sticks to it regardless if that player can help.

As shorthanded as we were, you think he would break the rule but he didn't. The Haywood thing was a whole nother problem. I guess you forgot.

[hands11]

-= original quote snipped =-



Poetry? Nah, never touch the stuff.

Thanks. LOL. I needed a good laugh.

I never read that from the beginning. Man. Poetry. I haven't written any good Poetry since my heart was broken in 11 grade. Good is relative of course.

Ok, maybe this old dog can learn some new tricks. But for now, I'm off to read the abyss of Wiz RealGM poetry.

[hands11]

doclinkin

No way I can hang with that shxt
needed a dictionary just to get through a blip
but it's a good read, no doubt .. not stink'n
a new style x-po-say bboard rythm'n doclinkin


LOL. Dame...

[Zerocious]

considering all injuries EJ's fault; i commend him for keeping BTH of the list. Perhaps one ounce of working brain matter reverbs in his echo chamber: "Limit BTH minutes, God forbid he can't suit up". For that, Ej's good in my book......

[Cramer]

Hands,

another way of looking at it is that EJ did one hell of a job of keeping the team competitive (if you call sweep competitive) with, once again, two all-stars - the top two players on the team - out with injuries. Under that scenario about the best you could possible hope for was to stretch the series out to five games, maybe six in a miracle situation.

As for this year, the same could be said. You seem, based on the posts I've read from you, to simply want to put the reason they played so well, without Arenas basically all year (and with that wuss Butler out for extended periods), to the fact that...well...Arenas was out. Some points you make are valid, it did allow other players to grow, etc...., but the fact is that EJ was stripped of one of the top 10-15 players in the league and all in all they had a pretty damn good season. An accident you say? I think a hell of a lot of it has to go to the coaching job that was done this year. And he had a lot to do with the other players growth and stepping up into larger roles. If you want to nit pick minutes is some games that's your right. It's a valid complaint in a lot of cases. Me, I'm going to look at the body of work over the last two years, consider the hand he was dealt as far as injuries, and how they look right now heading into the playoffs, and say I think he's done a hell of a job.

[Spence]

Anyone who thinks the Bullets lost in the playoffs last year because of Eddie Jordan and not because the team's two All Stars were missing should have his or her head examined. And then removed for transportation to NIH so it can be studied further by our top forensic scientists.

Seriously.

[dobrojim]

Anyone who thinks the Bullets lost in the playoffs last year because of Eddie Jordan and not because the team's two All Stars were missing should have his or her head examined. And then removed for transportation to NIH so it can be studied further by our top forensic scientists.

Seriously.

speaking from the NIH but not for the NIH, keep your brains, examined
or otherwise.

As one who was VERY upset last year at what happened in the playoffs,
I would still never argue that we lost because of EJ. I don't think it's
that unreasonable to hypothesize that we got swept due to
essentially no Haywood though. How much importance you place
on that is up to you. EJ has done a very solid job this year.

re- Jarvis, he actually defended LeTravel decently. Still shot like
Arvis though.

[hands11]

Anyone who thinks the Bullets lost in the playoffs last year because of Eddie Jordan and not because the team's two All Stars were missing should have his or her head examined. And then removed for transportation to NIH so it can be studied further by our top forensic scientists.

Seriously.

That was a good one Spence.

NOT.


As usual, you missed the whole point.

[nate33]

I think if EJ would have played Haywood more, we might have won one game, maybe two at the most. But I'm not going to gripe about it anymore. Bygones.

The bottom line is that EJ been a terrific coach this year and Haywood is having his best season (thanks in some small part to Etan's situation, no doubt). I'm excited about the team right now. I like the players, I like the coaching staff. I like the management.

I expect that the Wizards will be a winning team for quite some time. I don't know if their ceiling is that of a 48-50 win team, or if it's that of a championship contender. Time will tell. But being a perennial winner sure beats the hell out of being a perennial loser.

[hands11]

Hands,

another way of looking at it is that EJ did one hell of a job of keeping the team competitive (if you call sweep competitive) with, once again, two all-stars - the top two players on the team - out with injuries. Under that scenario about the best you could possible hope for was to stretch the series out to five games, maybe six in a miracle situation.

As for this year, the same could be said. You seem, based on the posts I've read from you, to simply want to put the reason they played so well, without Arenas basically all year (and with that wuss Butler out for extended periods), to the fact that...well...Arenas was out. Some points you make are valid, it did allow other players to grow, etc...., but the fact is that EJ was stripped of one of the top 10-15 players in the league and all in all they had a pretty damn good season. An accident you say? I think a hell of a lot of it has to go to the coaching job that was done this year. And he had a lot to do with the other players growth and stepping up into larger roles. If you want to nit pick minutes is some games that's your right. It's a valid complaint in a lot of cases. Me, I'm going to look at the body of work over the last two years, consider the hand he was dealt as far as injuries, and how they look right now heading into the playoffs, and say I think he's done a hell of a job.

I would say we are mostly seeing it the same except you are misstating my position.

I think not having GA in there allowed EJ to do a better job with the remaining players. Managing GA into the team concept we saw with out GA was something EJ couldn't do. GA was to big for him to handle. And because he had no other choice ( GA injury ), he had the opportunity to work with these other player in the system he knows best.

It comes back to something I have said for a long time. He is what he is, an assistant coach still learning to be a HC. Part of being a great head coach is managing the team and making these tough decisions. It's also managing big ego headed stars.

Where would we be as a team if GA had been healthy? I feel confident in saying we could have all our eggs in less baskets and those players would have broke down anyway as they have in the past.

Having GA out allowed EJ to do what needed done without having to make the tougher decisions. Actually, I don't even think it so much there was a tough decision as much as EJs butt was on the line to win and well EJ turns to vets max minutes to do that. It's just the way he is wired. He loves his vets. He would rather win the next game with him playing 40 mins in game 2 then invest in his youngs and the long term health of those vets.

That's my main beef with him. Not investing in the younger players today so they will be good tomorrow.

Not playing AB more last playoffs when you were going to loose was short sighted. Not playing BH was blind. Playing Hayes 40 minutes was stupid. So was playing Ruffin over Blatche. Is Ruffin on the team ? NO I know he wasn't going to be here this year. Most people did. So why not invest in AB getting experience. Specially when that was your advantage. Going BIG.

But, we got to grow our youngs this year regardless if it was an EJ decision or not. That's the good news. What is left to be seen at some point in the future is will EJ be able to manage super star egos and will he be able to manage the minutes of GA, CB and AJ when they are all healthy so we can have a team.

Time will tell. But he was greatly assisted in this team growing and coming together will GA injury. GA has matured. He should be easier to deal with now. I'm hoping this playoff run of him coming off the bench helps him mature even more which will help him be a true SUPER STAR on a team that has many STARs. On a team that should be awesome for years to come.

Far from being cursed. I think this team is blessed.

[hands11]

I think if EJ would have played Haywood more, we might have won one game, maybe two at the most. But I'm not going to gripe about it anymore. Bygones.

The bottom line is that EJ been a terrific coach this year and Haywood is having his best season (thanks in some small part to Etan's situation, no doubt). I'm excited about the team right now. I like the players, I like the coaching staff. I like the management.

I expect that the Wizards will be a winning team for quite some time. I don't know if their ceiling is that of a 48-50 win team, or if it's that of a championship contender. Time will tell. But being a perennial winner sure beats the hell out of being a perennial loser.

Absolutely. Well said. It's getting better across the board. Player and the coaches are better. Ayer, Tabby and the shot man were great additions to the management. NY and DMAC were great additions.

The future is indeed bright.

Now lets go get up a Conference Title. We have the TEAM to get there.

[fishercob]

That's my main beef with him. Not investing in the younger players today so they will be good tomorrow.

Not playing AB more last playoffs when you were going to loose was short sighted. Not playing BH was blind. Playing Hayes 40 minutes was stupid. So was playing Ruffin over Blatche. Is Ruffin on the team ? NO I know he wasn't going to be here this year. Most people did. So why not invest in AB getting experience. Specially when that was your advantage. Going BIG.

But, we got to grow our youngs this year regardless if it was an EJ decision or not. That's the good news. What is left to be seen at some point in the future is will EJ be able to manage super star egos and will he be able to manage the minutes of GA, CB and AJ when they are all healthy so we can have a team.

Time will tell. But he was greatly assisted in this team growing and coming together will GA injury. GA has matured. He should be easier to deal with now. At least for the time being. I'm hoping this playoff run of him coming off the bench helps him mature even more which will help he be a true SUPER STAR on a team what has many STARs. On a team that should be awesome for years to come.

Hands, I disagree with a lot of your assessment of EJ and the Gil situation, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Heck you may even be right, thought I doubt it.

And after watching the team this season, I am willing to give EJ the benefit of the doubt on not playing Blatche in last years playoffs, though it pissed me off royally at times.

EJ has shown one consistent philosophy with the kids: Everything. Must. Be. Earned. That's his investment. He wasn't going to throw Blatche on the court just because he was a talented young kid. His philosophy says that by making these kids earn the PT they get, he is making the ultimate investment in their and the team's future.

Plenty has been written about Blatche's immaturity on and off the court to know that EJ likely had reason to doubt AB's preparedness for playoff minutes.

I think EJ's methods are working. He has an uber-talented tema that has all bought in to his system and likes playing for him and together.

But as Nate said, bygones.

Go Wiz.

[hands11]

[quote="fishercob"][/quote]

And that is were that conversation ends. An honest disagreement.

I get what your saying and I agree that is what EJ is/was going. I don't even disagree with it in total. But every rule has it's exceptions.

You can be to much one way or the other. A wise man knows when to give and break the rules for the greater good.

Even given all we know about AB, I still find it a wasted opportunity not getting him as much playoff experience as possible over a player that wasn't going to be here. Specially when your talking about a uber talented 7-0 guys who with handles and a shot.

And since many facets of life are linear. You don't know what could have happened differently if AB was called on more. Maybe he shined. Maybe that helped him have the light bulb go off seeing what he could mean to this team. Maybe is motivated him to get more focused earlier.

Such is the ways of mentoring young people. Sometimes you have to give them a good taste and lean on them before they have totally earned it for them to get it enough that they can take the next step. Most young people want to prove you right when you take a chance on them.

Maturation is not a clear or smooth path.

But again, just two differing views of the situation.

But I take the totally actions of a man and judge his wisdom and EJ hasn't passed that test for me. He is a good X's and O's man, but I wouldn't call him wise.

The good news is EJ did what he did and AB did what he did and we got to sign him cheap. That is the blessing. There is no good or bad but perception makes it so. The next chapter is yet to be written.

Peace.

[doclinkin]

I don't know if they will or they won't but I'm damn well positive about chances right now and sure as hell not worrying about a year from now.

Just out of curiosity, what did you see as our problem last year in the playoffs? Eddie's coaching? The alignment of the planets? Maybe two **** all-stars out of the lineup with injuries?

Now comes a rendition of the Haywood chorus:

"If Eddie weren't so stubborn, he would have played Haywood and the Wiz would have won that series. We played every game so close [in spite of EJ apparently] that if we weren't getting beat by big Z, we would have certainly won the series and quite probably waltzed into the Finals the same way the Traveliers did... "

Something like that. Me I'd rather let last year be last year. Bygones be bygones. And submit only that Haywood worked his tail off over the summer and has had his best season ever, so whatever the cause EJ hasn't hurt his career and development much at all. Let's all get Rafiki on this: doesn't matter, it's in the past. Hakuna Matata.

I think if EJ would have played Haywood more, we might have won one game, maybe two at the most. But I'm not going to gripe about it anymore. Bygones.

The bottom line is that EJ been a terrific coach this year and Haywood is having his best season (thanks in some small part to Etan's situation, no doubt). I'm excited about the team right now. I like the players, I like the coaching staff. I like the management.

I expect that the Wizards will be a winning team for quite some time. I don't know if their ceiling is that of a 48-50 win team, or if it's that of a championship contender. Time will tell. But being a perennial winner sure beats the hell out of being a perennial loser.

But as Nate said, bygones.

Looks like we're all in accord then.

[doclinkin]

I guess one last thing I'm a put out there before leaving last year alone and moving on. In the method to the madness category, I actually think the playoff benching helped give EJ 'hand' with his team that pays dividends in team attitude, long term.

He defied his GM, stuck to his principles-- however wrongly held -- and got the team rallied behind the cause, with an 'us against the world' attitude. Even though he maybe lost one or two games that he might have won in a series that he basically had no chance to win. Seemed to me at the time, even sacrificing Brendan to do it, he got he team fired up trying to win on his behalf. He played the guys who gave the best 'effort' rewardign them with minutes, and in so doing he got 200% effort from all of 'em. Except DeShawn who still was in shock trying to play without Gil.

Fact is it was a risky move. Jeopardized his job, his staff, nearly lost his lynchpin defender. But what he got out of it is a reputation of a guy who will put his own job on the line rather than cave to pressure, and will stick to his guns to the bitter bitter, and still keep his cool. Will fight hardest and smartest when the odds are the longest and everyone counts you out. An attitude that carries over to the rest of the team. Benching Brendan (and more so regaining him later with twice the drive and dedication) helps out a guy like Blatche who looked to the Wood as a role model. Brendan protested and complained and what did it get him, benched if not shipped out. And the team lost. And instead he came back an elder stateman and solid citizen.

I credit Brendan's success less to Etan and more to Brendan though. He had no choice to come back, but he made the best choice he could taking care of every aspect of the situation that he could control. And seems to me this year his relationship with the coach is actually a strong one, positive I honestly see Big Wood as an assistant on EJ's staff eventually, before he takes a head coaching job elsewhere (actually the WNBA -- no joke. I caught a few games where he was a color analyst, he does a great job and has a real appreciation for the women's game).

Anyway, way off topic.

But all-in-all that means the real credit goes to Abe Pollin, who has always had a talent for getting his people in the room together and finding a way to work it all out. Nobody was fired, all egos remain in tact and all with alot to prove. Motivated, feisty. So thanks Abe, good man, great heart.

[Severn Hoos]

So wait - is this now the "last chance to get your $.02 in about last year" thread? Can I get in on that action?

The only thing I had left to add to the EJ/Haywood/benching/etc. discussion is that it seems to me that the rationale defending/explaining/extolling EJ's decisions and methods varies depending on the situation. I agree 100% with making the kids earn their PT. But that's a strategy that often sacrifices minimal short-term gain for the hope of greater long-term benefit. As a recovering tankaholic draftnik, I can understand that concept all too well.

A similar concept was stated as to the Haywood benching - that his "attitude" or something was the cause for it. To me, this was harder to justify because every objective measure showed that the team was better with Haywood playing. And it's a whole lot harder to quantify things like "chemistry" (which, I acknowledge, allows for the possibility that this year's "positive chemistry" is a direct reflection of last year's decisions. Or it could just be that Etan has been blocked from seeing the floor. I guess you know where I stand on that one...) But again, the main concept was the same - benching Haywood means we'll have a lower-performing team in the short term, but with the hope that it would improve both Haywood & the team over time.

But then we started to see the injuries pile up. And in the entertaining dustup around Butler's premature return, setback, and 41-minute game out of the gate, the mantra changed. Now, EJ was forced to play his star(s) extended minutes - at the risk of further injury or setback - because he was on the hot seat and every game mattered. This is where I lost sight of the train. If every game mattered, why bench Haywood when he was the best option by any objective measure? Or did only some games matter and not others?

The good news is that some of these issues seem to be resolving themselves quite well. (Though some credit there has to go to EG as well, who refused to trade Haywood and forced the two of them to work it out together, to everyone's benefit.) EJ seems to better understand how to use Haywood, and Haywood is clearly more focused and team-oriented. Hopefully, the young kids will grow up and become solid contributors in the next few years, but I'm not expecting a whole lot in this year's playoffs. Now if everyone can get healthy, we can make some noise and really launch some momentum for the next few seasons.

Hmm, bygones feel kinda nice. Ougt to try that more often.