Wiz vs Houston - 11/21/08

[BruceO]

am I the only one who'd trade Caron and Jamison for Vince and Yi? Vince is a better go to scorer and Yi is potentially a better PF mold than Jamison and he can hit that outside shot our system needs while being able to rebound.

Yes. You are the only one.

Over the next 4 years, Jamison will be better than Carter because his game won't decline as much due to age. Jamison is also considerably cheaper.

And Butler is so much better than Yi that it's not worth discussing.

lol How do you know Jamison will be better than Carter and his game won't decline as much. Also it's not about getting Carter it's about getting Yi and a willingness to take Carter on in the meantime. And during that meantime Carter's production won't be a huge reduction from what Caron could give us. If Carter declines and finally gets off our books we have just that, Carter off our books. Also I think you undervalue how good Yi can potentially be. I guess it's not worth discussing that our SF can't defend other SF's. that he couldn't even get the assignment to Defend Tmac during the closing quarter. That we have Deshawn defending Lebron most of the time despite being 3 inches shorter and not as remarkable a defender as he's made out to be.

My two ideas. The possibiity of Trading Arenas for Calderon and Bargagni and the possibility of trading Caron and Antwan for Carter and Yi is based on whether or not these guys can become championship caliber PF's. Not the kind of PF we have currently who doesn't contribute to Team D and can be exploited at the championship games by the likes of Rasheed, Amare, Dirk, Duncan, Garnett and Gasol. Pretty much ever PF we meet at that level can exploit Jamison. This isn't going to magically change. I'd rather have vince who will dominate most Sg's at the championship level than Jamison who will be dominated at that level. So how will Jamison not declining help us solve that? He still doesn't magically get to play at that level. It's that simple.

[jimij]

I'm stunned. Why has Dixon all of a sudden decided to become our central focus on offense. He's taking way too many shots.

Well, that's game. Groundhog's day. Wiz pack the tent and roll over in the fourth time and time again.

Can't blame Dixon too much for that. When your coach has never tried to get anyone to develope a post up game (you know by actually throwing to your bigs guys consistently in the post) and your a team that lives by jumpers (or Gil just attacking the hell out of the other team), its not surprising that whoever is in at guard for the Wiz in the fourth takes too many shots. We constantly dribble around the perimeter until the shot clock starts winding down and then someone goes one-on-one. Gil can make it work, no one else, but unfortunately we don't really have any other good crunch time options since the other team can just double Caron and AJ and there's no one else out there to make them pay.

Let's face it, we don't have a single "quality" guard on our active roster right now.

- Young shows flashes but is 50/50 on any given night at best
- Dixon is a 4th or 5th guard
- Stevenson is and overrated and overpaid role player who can't do much of anything on offense except pass and shoot completely wide open threes
- Daniels is over the hill and playing on one good knee and couldn't shoot even when he was younger
- Dee Brown played in Turkey last year, nuff said.

When defenses turn it up a notch in the fourth quarter, our guards can't handle the pressure or create shots so its no surprise that we struggle to score in the fourth.

That's still no excuse for our defensive shortcomings which, IMO, a quality coach could easily improve on, but our offense just doesn't possess the talent at guard right now to compete.

Last year we got career years from so many players all at once and we were still basically a .500 club. You can't expect that many guys to play as well this year and since we've lost Wood and Mason there's even less talent than before. Its going to be a long year.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Got the following dialogue from the Rockets board:

Mark Jackson: "Yes, McGrady made a trey, but rewind the play. Yao read the double team and made a good pass."

See what happens when Yao gets the ball in the low post?

Unfortunately its the getting the ball there part. JVG kept calling it....he couldn't understand why the Wizards weren't fronting. When Yao is killing you like that...9 out 10 NBA teams would front. Sad for the Wizards that they are that 1 team.

[closg00]

This game thread is only 9 pages long so far.

Looking on the Toronto board, they've got 104 plus pages on their OT loss to the Nets. (Carter got revenge in a big way). Over 10 times as many game posts over there.

The Raps board has always been one of the most active for hoops.

[fishercob]

Client called me at 5:45 telling me that he had courtside seats. Cleared it with the Mrs, and I was on the metro by 6:15. First row behind the Rockets bench. You're so low down that it's actually not that great a seat to watch the game, but being that close to players is cool. It also gives you an appreciation for just how physical the game is.

I thought the Wiz played well, but were eventually outlasted by the far better team. McGee and Blatche combined to go 7-8 from the field in the first half, and you knew that wasn't going to continue. Credit Houston for continuing to feed Yao and get our guys in foul trouble. When you have Yao and guys who can make 3's you're tough to defend.

Two nitpicky complaints. First, Blatche seemed to frustrate Yao a little by fronting him in the first half. Yet Mcgee didn't. And then in the second half Blatche seemed to stop. Yao has such a strength advantage that you cant play behind him or he gets in too deep. Secondly, McGrady's hurt. I don't think he finished at the rim all night long. The Wiz didn't seem to recognize that and take away his jumper. Granted, it's hard to take away a 6'8 guy's jumper, especially when we're small on the perimeter, but I would have liked them to sell out a littl emore and make him give up the ball or go to the rim.

But wow, fellas. McGee is for real. National TV, all-world center and he took it too the guy. He's 20! He's going to be a special one.

All in all, it wasnt a bad night for the long term plan: entertaining game, got the kids some experience, and picked up another ping pong ball. Unfortunately, that's what this season is turning into, but we just gotta make the best of it.

[newslowsad]

Missed most of the game, but listened to the Glenn Consor's post show. He said that he liked Eddie's rotations tonight and that he coached a good game. I have a hard time believing that.

[dandridge 10]

Thanks everyone for talking me into watching the game. I actually thought it was a pretty good one. The positives I saw from this game were (1) the Wizards played with ALOT of effort (2) Blatche/McGee were about as good as can be expected and (3) the ball movement and defense were overall the best I've seen since the Utah game. The negatives were: (1) Butler and Young did not have strong showings (2) we are still getting no production from Stevenson, (3) we are still doing a poor job on the boards (Landry killed us in the second quarter) and (4) the Wizards again took stupid, quick shots at the end of the game.

Since a lot of you criticized EJ for playing Songalia and Etan so long in the 4th quarter, I was really interested in seeing how they played. After watching them play, I really don't get the criticism. Even though JVG made a comment that the Wizards had no scorers out there, the threesome of Songalia, Etan and Juan were actually doing really well. Juan, Songalia and Etan all hit shots to keep the Wizards up with about a 7-9 lead when all of a sudden McGrady hit two threes back to back with a hand in his face with about 7:39 left in the game. At that moment, EJ immediately substituted AJ, McGee and Butler back in and it went nip and tuck until about 2:30 minutes left when Yao scored several in a row and Alston hit a three pointer. If anything, the only criticism I have of EJ is that he should have had McGee fronting Yao at the end.

It might be a cliche, but this is really the only game thus far that E.J.'s saying "they just made big plays down the stretch and we didn't" applied. Yao and McGrady stepped up and brought it strong at the end. Butler and Jamison did not. Game over.

[dandridge 10]

One more thing. I did think JVG brought up a good point on how we don't have shooters to surround Butler and Jamison to give them more room to operate. It struck me tonight how much we miss Roger Mason. Young had about 3-4 wide open three pointers that he missed tonight. I bet Mason would have nailed most of them. Having someone on the court like Mason can make a lot of teams pay for loading up on Jamison and Butler.

[hands11]

So many topics being tossed around about things that could have helped.

Feeding the post. - absolutely, this has been a problem since EFJ got here. It goes hand in hand with his historical treatment of players like Haywood and our lake of success in doing to Houston what they did to us. Get the opposing team in foul trouble so their best post plays are on the bench. I have long said that is your best defensive strategy. They can't hurt you if they aren't playing. Look what happen to Artest.

As for McGee late in the game with Yao posting him, why didn't someone tell him to front him instead. The announcer was pointing it out over and over.

Vince Carter. Yeah, back when he was available I thought he was a good choice for us. Not sure about it today. Hadn't really given it any thought lately.

Roger Mason. Absolutely. I wanted him over DS but you just know we weren't going to see that happen. We are really missing the presence of a SG with RMs approach and skills. He was steady.

But we have looked a lot better the last 2 games. This is almost entirely because EFJ pulled his head out of his backside and started better linups and has made better rotations. Had we done this from the beginning we would have never dug such a deep hole and the players would be in sync.

But that is the mark of EFJ. Always late to adjust.

If we keep doing what he did in Utah, ATL and tonight, we will win at least 500% with potential to be even better.

[Kanyewest]

I also liked that Jamison played well and got a lot of praise from JVG and Mark Jackson. Anything to pump up his trade value is good in my book.

Whenever you score 27 points through 3 quarters on National TV, you are going to get some dap. I think Jamison even played decently on defense tonight.

[LyricalRico]

Got the following dialogue from the Rockets board:

Mark Jackson: "Yes, McGrady made a trey, but rewind the play. Yao read the double team and made a good pass."

See what happens when Yao gets the ball in the low post?

Unfortunately its the getting the ball there part. JVG kept calling it....he couldn't understand why the Wizards weren't fronting. When Yao is killing you like that...9 out 10 NBA teams would front. Sad for the Wizards that they are that 1 team.

Duh! If guys front Yao, how are they going to be able to sag into the lane and "protect the paint"?

[ZonkertheBrainless]

As for McGee late in the game with Yao posting him, why didn't someone tell him to front him instead. The announcer was pointing it out over and over.

Valid point. EJ commented that he did indeed tell McGee to front but that McGee didn't start executing his defensive positioning early enough and couldn't do it.

So it's not that EJ doesn't understand good defensive principles. The main issue is, can he in fact get his players to practice good defensive principles during a game? EJ seems to accept the fact that players will not always execute what he asks them to do, and his strategy is not to give them minutes until they do what he asks. I think that works for offense but my personal philosophy about defense is you can't teach it without drilling it in loudly and angrily. Players want, deep down, to play offense, so they will actively try to learn what you are saying. The psychology for learning defense is completely different. You have to not give the players a choice of playing any other way, and you do that by breaking them down boot camp style and stripping away everything they think they know about defense and start over completely from scratch. You don't teach defense by telling them what to do and waiting patiently for them to learn it. It's much harder than that.

[pancakes3]

well i guess that's what it means to be a players' coach. you can't be bobby knight with grown NBA professionals - even rookies. I'm sure PJ Carlisimo has lots to say about what happens when you step to a player. Even the no-bs coaches in the league like Sloan, Pops, and to an extent - Jackson have used a little give-and-take with their players.

That being said, i don't blame McGee for not fronting Yao. Fronting a player in the post is a lot harder to do than bodying up on him. First, you have to wait for the post player to be established or else when you front a player that isn't posting up, he'll just cut to the basket for a layup. Secondly, you have to switch to fronting when the point man doesn't have an angle to pass it, or else when you're transitioning from behind to front, the post man will just cut towards the basket for the layup. Thirdly, you have to be quick with the transition or else you'll let your man cut to the basket for... the layup. In waiting for all this to happen, you're already positioned between the man and the basket, and if McGee wasn't sure he could front Yao without giving up a layup, he didn't chance it. Agreed that optimally, McGee should've gotten out in front a lot more than he did, but i thought he did yeoman's work down low, though he could've played better.

plus it wasn't yao's 18pts that did us in but landry's 19 and aaron brooks' 18 that lost us the game. 2nd string PF and 2nd string pg defense - Blatche and Daniels...

ps. Daniels is DONE. He belongs on NBA Fastbreak chatting it up with Jalen Rose. 20 mins, 0 points, 3 assists, and a TO?

[nate33]

plus it wasn't yao's 18pts that did us in but landry's 19 and aaron brooks' 18 that lost us the game. 2nd string PF and 2nd string pg defense - Blatche and Daniels...

ps. Daniels is DONE. He belongs on NBA Fastbreak chatting it up with Jalen Rose. 20 mins, 0 points, 3 assists, and a TO?

Blatche played center the entire game. Landry's damage was done mostly against Jamison and a little bit against DSong. I thought Blatche played his best defense of the season. He was fighting hard against Yao and he contributed with a few weakside blocked shots.

[WizarDynasty]

seems like everyone forgets that we have no shot blockers on the perimeter...aka once tracy mcgrady realized that everyone on perimeter was 6'5 with short arms..he realized you could just rise up and shooter j's all day....blame it all on grunfeld for not getting a decent sf to guard the perimeter...three point shot.

rise over short armed 6'5 deshaun..easy jay..rise over unathletic juan dixon--easy three pointer--rise over--'63 antonio daniels..easy jay--rise over short armed--caron butler--easy jay...need i go on...dee brown...lol...let see...there is not one long armed perimeter defender outside of nick young...dominic mcguire..but he has slow feet. Our best perimeter defender is a charging mcgee...that's pathetic because he is a center that has to guard centers. Like i said, ernie should be fired for not having at least two back up perimeter defenders capable of blocking a shot on the perimeter. How many blocked shots do any of our perimeter players have outside of nick young.

i mean the number tell it all. all you gotta do is look at deshaun and caron blocks on perimeter and see where the weakness is on the perimeter. everyone keeps think that deshaun in an average defender. He is not. the most important thing to do on the perimeter is challenge shots on defense. deshaun has shown to be incapable of blocking the shot of the person that he is guarding at all on the perimeter and so has caron. the fact that deshaun and caron have nearly zero blocks on the perimeter... is not related to eddie jordan coaching... Grunfeld assemble a collection of players who can't effectively guard perimeter shots. its ok if you get caron butler..and knowing that he can't block shots on the perimeter...bring in another starter that can cover him..but grunfeld effectively brought in three players at starter position guarding the perimeter who can't ...even if their life depended on it..block or tip a shot out on the perimeter. Grunfeld has a history of bringing in offensive players with no defense...and this team is a reflection of that.
Eddie is not the problem, the problem will be solved when we can bring in a GM that can bring in a mix of players on the perimeter that cover each others weakness. Grunfeld brought in three starters that have no perimeter shot blocking ability and expected eddie jordan to make this team a good defensive perimeter team..and the fact that grunfeld has yet to pull of a trade to address one this teams most serious needs for the last three seasons is the reason he should be fired. Jordan can not go out and make a trade to get outlaw..or moon..or rasual butler...anyone that can come in and has long enough arms, quick enough feet to challenge and block a three point shot.

He could have easily kept demarr johnson..6'9 sf with shot blocking ability over juan dixon but chose not too...you are guys are posters who shout to fire eddie jordan..when this team has had the worst perimeter defense blocking the three shot are pathetic...for not being able to see that grunfeld who is responsible for making the big trades...and has failed to do so for nearly 3 seasons....has failed to bring in a starting caliber perimeter defender since he has been here for nearly 5 seasons...and has absolutely nothing to do with coaching.

[omegatronic3]

i havent watched too many games but in this game it was apparent to me that guard play is the MAJOR problem. Jamison, Mcgee, butler,blache all were decent but our guards are terrible!!!! How many fast breaks did we blow because the guards made the wrong decision. Dee Browns only asset is that hes fast..Dixon is well a limited combo guard...Stevnson..is undersized and under talented...Daniels is washed up and Young is a decent scorer but nothing else.....I don't think we have one guard that would start for any good team.

Other teams are making moves so we better do something. There are so many players that we could have had that would have helped us like Chris Duhon...nothing special but a real pg....at this point we need to trade for a PG or 2 but I think point is the most immediate need.

[Ji]

Blake Griffen could be the best power forward prospect to come out in years. He has already had 2 20 rebound games. I mean 35 pts 21 reb...Good lord. He is a perfect fit for our future

[pancakes3]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... den_state/

perfect.

[nate33]

Marcus Williams can't defend his own shadow. I have no interest in him.