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The Slowly Improving Andray Blatche Thread

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Ed Wood
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Re: The Slowly Improving Andray Blatche Thread 

Post#121 » by Ed Wood » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:05 am

Ced67 wrote: Hype


Sorry guys, he got me. I admit that I would trade Blatche for Dwight Howard, and I'd entertain offers involving Greg Oden. I guess I'll have to argue that he sucks now.

Right off of the bat I'm still baffled by the idea of failing to live up to his hype, or falling short of expectations. If you expected Andray to far surpass his current incarnation when he first came into the league you have quite an eye for talent, because most of us couldn't tell him from Ndudi Ebi. I don't want to sound too contrary here because I'll concede that I am certainly occasionally baffled by Andray and I do think that a complete commitment to his career would benefit both him and the team.

On the other hand to me (and possibly to Nate, his mind is so coldly logical and devoid of human weakness that I cannot dare claim to comprehend it) this is sounding more and more like another round of the Brendan Haywood debate. It was always about how Brendan needed to play bigger, to be more aggressive, to act less like "Brenda" but the bottom line was that he was a talented guy and the team has suffered in his absence. Blatche is a finesse big, no question. He takes a lot of mid range jumpers, he uses a lot of shot fakes and pivots in the post, he doesn't dunk the ball every time he possibly could. He does attack his man off of the dribble more than most forwards, he even does showy guard stuff like dribble behind his back, and if he weighs 250 pounds his butt has to be, like quantum singularity dense.

But he's getting better (I really don't follow your argument that he isn't). He's the team's fourth best per minute scorer and honestly he's a more legitimate scoring threat than Nick Young more often than not. He's a tremendous passer for a big man, and his turnover problems are resolving themselves (he's no more turnover prone at this point than guys like Lamar Odom or Josh Smith, other big men who look to make difficult passes) and he's not any fundamentally worse, in my observation anyway, than Antawn Jamison defensively at this point. I certainly don't see him loose his man on pick and rolls the way Antawn does regularly. The only thing he hasn't done better this year is rebound, a trend I would prefer were reversed, but he's still the team's best healthy rebounder currently.

Blatche isn't talked about because he's a former second round pick on a terrible team playing fewer than twenty five minutes a night, and he once solicited a police officer to boot, so announcers almost aren't allowed to say nice things about him. I'm not sure specifically to whom you're referring when you draw upon the clearly informed views of "NBA experts" but if you mean in game commentators I'd remind you that Milwaukee's broadcast team thinks Luke Ridnour is pretty awesome and the guys in New York have nice things to say about Jared Jeffries.

Anyway, fundamental point here is that we're not assuming Blatche will make anything more than modest improvements to his game from here on out, what we're saying is that he's already a guy who could start for a respectable NBA franchise and the third best player on the Wizards who you'll see in uniform this season.
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Re: The Slowly Improving Andray Blatche Thread 

Post#122 » by nate33 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:05 am

Ced67 wrote:You just killed your own argument right there in my opinion. Do you actually believe the stuff the stats are telling you. Yes, a lot of those name are hyped and in my opinion they, for the most part are living up to that hype. To say that he is statistically outplaying all of those guys is a bit crazy. Can you actually tell me that you wouldn't trade Blatche straight up for at least half of those guys? I know that you like to use stats, but I personally think that you rely on them too heavily. He may put up good numbers, but Im going by what I see on the floor, and what I continually see is a big man, 6'11 250 who wants to play like his a 6'7 swing man. Yeah, the fact that he's 6'11 is a great asset, but whats the point when you don't use it. Remember Jared Jeffries was 6'10 only he was more athletic. Id personally rather have all of those guys over Blatche. Brook Lopez, Greg Oden and Al Horford all play like bigs and actually use the bodies that they have and the others are smaller and play their positions well. They also, for the most part play with a higher level of consistent intensity that Blatche just doesn't play with. Not to mention the fact that all of those guys outside of Gay are in their first or second year. I know that they are all the same age, but Blatche has been playing the pro game for 4 years now. Stats can't measure the intangible stuff, like intensity, effort and toughness. Blatche lacks in all three departments, especially the toughness.

I brought up those names just to prove my point that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Stop to think about it: as frustrated as you are with Blatche's play, he puts up better numbers than all those guys. It therefore follows that those guys must also be playing inconsistent basketball with bouts of good play followed by terrible play. Blatche's inconsistency is normal. You gotta put it into context.

I'll also point out that he is playing without a point guard while also having to cover for Jamison defensively. That's a lot of responsibility for a 22-year-old big man. There's nobody around to make his job any easier.
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Re: The Slowly Improving Andray Blatche Thread 

Post#123 » by doclinkin » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:14 am

doclinkin wrote:And unlike say the KFB, Dray's turnover % has been falling every year. He still handles the ball, but give credit where it's due, he's far less likely to try to do too much than he used to be. His TO % is now better than say Jordan Farmar or Andre Iguodala. And equivalent to Rodney Stuckey and Chris Paul, for whatever that's worth.

Link.

(Whereas the unnamed other guy, sad to say, has been steadily increasing his turnover rate every year in the league. Its' really pretty remarkable, in a startling and sorta sad way).


Quoting myself since the fact sorta astounded me. Dray turns the ball over about as often per 100 touches as does Rodney Stuckey or Chris Paul. Really, that's nuts.

And per 40 minutes pace adjusted he ranks with KG and Al Horford among the best passing big men. Link.

His assist to TO value ranks him next to Grant Hill and OJ Mayo.

So, right, if he sometimes thinks he's a guard, well okay, his stats tend to think so too.
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Re: The Slowly Improving Andray Blatche Thread 

Post#124 » by Kanyewest » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:38 am

nate33 wrote:Posted this on a game thread but it probably belongs here:

kanyewest wrote:I would have traded Blatche a year ago for Randy Foye but I'm guessing the T-Wolves don't want a part of that anymore.

I'd MUCH rather have Blatche, a 22-year-old 6-11 PF/C posting a PER of 17, over Foye, a 25-year-old undersized shooting guard posting a PER of 15. It's no contest at all. Only a fool would prefer Foye. The fact that you think otherwise only shows how much undeserved Blatche hate is on this board.

Too many of you fans get caught up in the "grass is greener" mindset. You see some of the warts in Blatche's game and assume that good young players on other teams have no such warts. That's where you are wrong.

This is why I heavily rely on stats when evaluating players. Stats don't tell the whole story, but at least their objective and dispassionate. There are 34 players in this league who are 22 or younger and have played at least 800 minutes. Among those 34, Blatche ranks 5th in PER. And he does so while being a moderately effective defender.

I don't know what you people expect from the man. He's not the next Dwight Howard or Chris Bosh, but he's easily on track to be an above-average PF/C for the next 10 years. Look at the link I posted. Note all of those hyped names like Brook Lopez, Rudy Gay, Al Horford, Thad Young, Jeff Green, O.J.Mayo, Mario Chalmers, Michael Beasley and Greg Oden. Blatche is statistically outperforming ALL of them!

If you apply the same criteria and include 23-year-olds, Blatche ranks 11th out of 49.


Maybe I was underrating the trade value of Blatche. I mean Derrick Rose only has PER of 15.1. Maybe we can get him.
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Re: The Slowly Improving Andray Blatche Thread 

Post#125 » by Kanyewest » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:09 am

As for the whole Foye/Blatche, I'm not "hating" on Blatche but giving props to a non-Wizard player. Randy Foye has been playing out of his mind in January and more importantly his team is winning games; the T-Wolves are 8-2 in their past 10 games. Foye is averaging 20.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, and 2.8 rpg so far this month while shooting 49% from the field and 3 point range. I still think Blatche could prove me wrong but right now I would take Foye.
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Re: The Slowly Improving Andray Blatche Thread 

Post#126 » by dandridge 10 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:19 am

I think we can all agree on one thing about Blatche. Only time will tell how good he will be. Personally, I think his plateau is lower than many of you think. I hope to god I am wrong, because one day I'd like the Wizards to have a bonafide big man that is better than "decent" or "above average."
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Re: The Slowly Improving Andray Blatche Thread 

Post#127 » by Kanyewest » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:20 am

dandridge 10 wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing about Blatche. Only time will tell how good he will be. Personally, I think his plateau is lower than many of you think. I hope to god I am wrong, because one day I'd like the Wizards to have a bonafide big man that is better than "decent" or "above average."


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Re: The Slowly Improving Andray Blatche Thread 

Post#128 » by hands11 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:14 pm

Ed Wood wrote:
Ced67 wrote: Hype


Sorry guys, he got me. I admit that I would trade Blatche for Dwight Howard, and I'd entertain offers involving Greg Oden. I guess I'll have to argue that he sucks now.

Right off of the bat I'm still baffled by the idea of failing to live up to his hype, or falling short of expectations. If you expected Andray to far surpass his current incarnation when he first came into the league you have quite an eye for talent, because most of us couldn't tell him from Ndudi Ebi. I don't want to sound too contrary here because I'll concede that I am certainly occasionally baffled by Andray and I do think that a complete commitment to his career would benefit both him and the team.

On the other hand to me (and possibly to Nate, his mind is so coldly logical and devoid of human weakness that I cannot dare claim to comprehend it) this is sounding more and more like another round of the Brendan Haywood debate. It was always about how Brendan needed to play bigger, to be more aggressive, to act less like "Brenda" but the bottom line was that he was a talented guy and the team has suffered in his absence. Blatche is a finesse big, no question. He takes a lot of mid range jumpers, he uses a lot of shot fakes and pivots in the post, he doesn't dunk the ball every time he possibly could. He does attack his man off of the dribble more than most forwards, he even does showy guard stuff like dribble behind his back, and if he weighs 250 pounds his butt has to be, like quantum singularity dense.

But he's getting better (I really don't follow your argument that he isn't). He's the team's fourth best per minute scorer and honestly he's a more legitimate scoring threat than Nick Young more often than not. He's a tremendous passer for a big man, and his turnover problems are resolving themselves (he's no more turnover prone at this point than guys like Lamar Odom or Josh Smith, other big men who look to make difficult passes) and he's not any fundamentally worse, in my observation anyway, than Antawn Jamison defensively at this point. I certainly don't see him loose his man on pick and rolls the way Antawn does regularly. The only thing he hasn't done better this year is rebound, a trend I would prefer were reversed, but he's still the team's best healthy rebounder currently.

Blatche isn't talked about because he's a former second round pick on a terrible team playing fewer than twenty five minutes a night, and he once solicited a police officer to boot, so announcers almost aren't allowed to say nice things about him. I'm not sure specifically to whom you're referring when you draw upon the clearly informed views of "NBA experts" but if you mean in game commentators I'd remind you that Milwaukee's broadcast team thinks Luke Ridnour is pretty awesome and the guys in New York have nice things to say about Jared Jeffries.

Anyway, fundamental point here is that we're not assuming Blatche will make anything more than modest improvements to his game from here on out, what we're saying is that he's already a guy who could start for a respectable NBA franchise and the third best player on the Wizards who you'll see in uniform this season.


Thanks. Yes I did spot him as this good a talent and even better. His biggest problem has been his lack of minutes with quality players. My biggest problem with him has been is focus and maturity. It's the combination of the two things that has lead to him developing slower then it needed to happen. Even with the progress he has made year from year, I think it could and should have happened quicker and more.

I'm glad he has finally gotten a good amount of starts with CB and AJ. He never had that. I'm also glad he is trying to explore his offensive abilities and messing up. He is learning.

What he most needs now is Haywood. Blatche is not a center. He is a PF/SF. And since my eye for talent have already been identified by your criteria I will proclaim that as a did a while ago that he does have some SF in him. But that said, he needs to learn the PF first.

His time at center has been a valuable learning experience but has left the team short handed because he isn't really a center.

What he really needs to take his game to the next level is to play his natural position with a natural center next to him. From there he can learn his craft more and explore his game out to the SF position. This is what he needs along with a winning environment and a tough noised on the court vet to challenge him. The thing he is missing is Haywood. He is the type of kid who would benefit from someone like a Kobe who will back smack and chest thump with him. He needs that. Haywood will do that with him.

Haywood is going to become more and more a team leader. He puts in the work. He is tough but he is also funny. Players like him. The kids McGee and Blatche need a leader they can identify with. That isn't CB or AJ or GA. That is Haywood.

All this being said, I'm not adverse to not starting him a few games if he starts to loose his focus. The kid still needs to learn several lessons and needs to be turning mentally into a pro.

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