Kirk At The 3?

[dlts20]

What are you guys thoughts on this? I like Kirk and I think it could work but I also think it could be the dumbest move in the history of coaching. 1st off, many people wondered could Wall & Gil work together for a number of reasons. You are taking the ball out of Gil's hands and its a small backcourt defensively. It would probably also hurt our rebounding. Now not only do we have that but Flip is starting another 6'4 guard at the 3. Kirk has always been one of the best perimiter defenders in the league but that was at the 1. He's been good enough to defend the 2 but at the 3? He'll have to guard Lebron, Pierce, and all these guys. I saw Pierce kill him last year.

On top of that, 1st Gil had to worry about Wall but now you are putting 2 guys on the floor to take the ball out of Gil's hands. That makes no sense. The Gil-Wall backcourt can be dynamic so why screw with that by putting a 3rd ball handling PG in the lineup? Gil looks better every game and should have the ball when Wall doesnt have it. The other side is Offense. What did we say about Gil at the 2? We said that he could have a hard time guarding cats but no 2 can guard him. You cant say that about Kirk. NY starts a 7ft Gallo at the 3. Kirk has to guard him but on the flip side he has to guard Kirk, except Kirk cant take advantage of that matchup like an Arenas could. Its like no upside. Kirk isnt going to drop 30.

When it comes to rebounding, Dray & McGee are already suspect and now you are going to surrond them by 3 PG sized guards? Then what about scoring? We all know that you cant count on McGee and right now you pretty much just want him to be a finisher. That means we are counting on a rookie, a guy who hasnt really played in 3 years who you dont know what to expect from, and a big who is rusty from a foot injury, out of shape, and isnt fully finished yet anyways. I still think Flip's system makes it hard for guys like Wall & Gil to finish at the rim off the pick & roll. To me it just makes more sense to have a bigger guy who is also a scoring threat.

I dont like Yi to be at the 3 because I want both him & Dray to stay being used to playing inside. You also want that guy off the bench that you know you can count on. I think you have to start a Howard or Thorton. Maybe even an NY over Kirk. Shoot, I may even say that if you want to start another little guy then maybe it should be Hudson. One thing you might could do is start Dray at the 5 & Yi at the 4 but again with Kirk at the 3 so you have enough O but again, I like to have that scoring on the bench that you can count on. However, I wouldnt be totally against that one. Just let Kirk get used to being the 3rd guard and stop making it more harder for Gil to have the ball in his hands. Despite everything I just said, Im not 100% against it yet. I think weve seen evidence that it can work.

That main thing to me is Gil. I think so far he's still our #1 guy to count on and I think you have to do whatever it is to put him in the most comfortable position. I think maybe removing Kirk and letting Gil handle the ball more would be better. No doubt Wall will still be the primary ball handler but when its not him then it should always be Gil. I think that will keep him more aggressive also. The one problem on the flip side is that having Kirk maybe makes Gil more of a scorer. Adding another scorer in the lineup may take shots away from Gil. It's just all so tricky because every guy I talked about can be great for us but youre still not 100% sure that you can count on them alone right now to dominate by themselves at what they do. Thats not even including the size, D & rebounding problems

[Wizardspride]

On top of that, 1st Gil had to worry about Wall but now you are putting 2 guys on the floor to take the ball out of Gil's hands. That makes no sense. The Gil-Wall backcourt can be dynamic so why screw with that by putting a 3rd ball handling PG in the lineup? Gil looks better every game and should have the ball when Wall doesnt have it. The other side is Offense. What did we say about Gil at the 2? We said that he could have a hard time guarding cats but no 2 can guard him. You cant say that about Kirk. NY starts a 7ft Gallo at the 3. Kirk has to guard him but on the flip side he has to guard Kirk, except Kirk cant take advantage of that matchup like an Arenas could. Its like no upside. Kirk isnt going to drop 30.


That main thing to me is Gil. I think so far he's still our #1 guy to count on and I think you have to do whatever it is to put him in the most comfortable position. I think maybe removing Kirk and letting Gil handle the ball more would be better. No doubt Wall will still be the primary ball handler but when its not him then it should always be Gil. I think that will keep him more aggressive also. The one problem on the flip side is that having Kirk maybe makes Gil more of a scorer. Adding another scorer in the lineup may take shots away from Gil. It's just all so tricky because every guy I talked about can be great for us but youre still not 100% sure that you can count on them alone right now to dominate by themselves at what they do. Thats not even including the size, D & rebounding problems

I share these concerns as well. but frankly, I get the vibe that John Wall is the only thing that matters to Flip.

[hands11]

To early to worry about this in my book.

How much we start that line up is yet to be seen.

It wouldn't be an issue if Howard was healthy.

I think they needed to look at it from a stability angle. Wall being brand new at PG and Gil moving to SG. It was probably the right move to start camp. But Wall is looking pretty solid. He is hitting the ground running and learning really quickly.

Soon enough I think you are going to see AT in there so they can see if he can get it done.

This is all really really early in the process. We only have 5 players from last year and two of them are Nick and McGee who are not consistent and one was Gil who didn't play more the year.

I think we will be working our way through different line ups and see what we have. Personally, for next game I think it is time to start AT at SF.

Wall, Gil, Kirk
Wall, Gil, AT
Wall, Gil, Yi
Wall, Gil, NY if we keep him
Wall, Gil, Booker

But in the end it will be

Wall, Gil, Howard starting and we will play different line up during the game.

I'm not concerned right now.

[BigLos2010]

before too long, kirk will be out of the starting 5. besides, it wouldn't shock me if your team's goal by the end of the year is to have a wall, kirk backcourt with gilbert on some other team.

[Ruzious]

Hinrich at the 3 adds some to the offense, but in the long run - it doesn't make much sense. I'd be surprised if Thornton doesn't start at the 3. Maybe Flip is doing this to motivate Thornton.

[nate33]

Hinrich at the 3 adds some to the offense, but in the long run - it doesn't make much sense. I'd be surprised if Thornton doesn't start at the 3. Maybe Flip is doing this to motivate Thornton.

Agreed. It makes no sense at all. Not only does it give our starting lineup a terrible mismatch at SF while exacerbating the rebounding problem, but it also screws up our guard rotation, forcing one or more of Wall, Arenas or Hinrich to play an awkward rotation where they are forced to stay on the floor for 14-18 consecutive minutes before getting a rest.

The logical thing to do is to bring Hinrich off the bench, but utilize him at small forward for short stretches in the middle of the game so that the opposing team doesn't really have time to strategize against it. Flip just needs to figure out if Thornton or Young should start

[Dat2U]

Oh Alonzo Gee, where art thou?

[Hoopalotta]

Maybe Flip just wants to check or facilitate the chemistry between Wall with both Hiney and Gil.

I'm putting the odds fairly high that Flip knows this won't work even in the short term and is utilizing it as a 'pre-season only' jobie. Even if not, I'm thinking we're looking at a fleeting fling.

Edit to add -->

Alright, wiretap says the Thunder have Durant playing some point guard. Are you guys thinking what I'm thinking?

We throw down a couple shots of off brand rot gut, call them up and put it to 'em like this:

Look, we've both got guys playing out of position here, so let's work together on this one. We're willing to absorb Mo Pete and Al Thornton can make up much of Durant's production. Plus, we can bolster your interior rotaion by throwing Yi in, and let me tell you, he'll be a big hit with your Chinese popula....uh..hello.....hello?

OK, maybe I overreached.

[nate33]

Maybe Flip just wants to check or facilitate the chemistry between Wall with both Hiney and Gil.

I'm putting the odds fairly high that Flip knows this won't work even in the short term and is utilizing it as a 'pre-season only' jobie. En if not, I'm thinking we're looking at a fleeting fling.

I tend to agree, but it's a bit frustrating nevertheless. Hinrich is the most well-known commodity on the team. He's the one guy who doesn't need extensive preseason minutes to evaluate his play. Flip's top priority should be to figure out who fits best at starting SF.

I think he should take a shot at starting Young. Last season, Young was ineffective when playing with the bench, but he was very effective as a starter. The team went 8-5 in games that Young started. And Young's nice play in garbage time last game can at least give Flip the excuse to start him (when, admittedly, Young has done nothing else to deserve a starting role).

[pineappleheadindc]

Oh Alonzo Gee, where art thou?

Still on San Antonio - they have to cut a few people and perhaps he'll get cut (who knows).

Spurs have played 2 preseason games. Gee got a DNP-CD the first game. But Saturday night, played 11 minutes in a big win vs Miami and (by boxscore only) played decently well.

[hands11]

Maybe Flip just wants to check or facilitate the chemistry between Wall with both Hiney and Gil.

I'm putting the odds fairly high that Flip knows this won't work even in the short term and is utilizing it as a 'pre-season only' jobie. En if not, I'm thinking we're looking at a fleeting fling.

I tend to agree, but it's a bit frustrating nevertheless. Hinrich is the most well-known commodity on the team. He's the one guy who doesn't need extensive preseason minutes to evaluate his play. Flip's top priority should be to figure out who fits best at starting SF.

I think he should take a shot at starting Young. Last season, Young was ineffective when playing with the bench, but he was very effective as a starter. The team went 8-5 in games that Young started. And Young's nice play in garbage time last game can at least give Flip the excuse to start him (when, admittedly, Young has done nothing else to deserve a starting role).

I think it was a smart move for the first three Wall games as he is introduced to the NBA pre-season game. Specially since we didn't have Howard ready we saw Kidd and Rose. An it could lite a fire under ATs butt. Let him know he is in a fight.

Just read a WP article basically saying he wanted to know if he can go with it if needed. Know he knows what it looks like. Said he would us it in the right situation, but not if he has to cover LeBron or anything. I give him one more game to start that but I would rather see him start AT next game. If AT or NY or Yi are not starting by the following game, that I will Flip out banging my head.

[Jimmy Recard]

Dont like it at all mainly from a rebounding perspective. We need someone at that 3 spot that can help our Dray and Java on the boards.

[dlts20]

Maybe Flip just wants to check or facilitate the chemistry between Wall with both Hiney and Gil.

I'm putting the odds fairly high that Flip knows this won't work even in the short term and is utilizing it as a 'pre-season only' jobie. En if not, I'm thinking we're looking at a fleeting fling.

I tend to agree, but it's a bit frustrating nevertheless. Hinrich is the most well-known commodity on the team. He's the one guy who doesn't need extensive preseason minutes to evaluate his play. Flip's top priority should be to figure out who fits best at starting SF.

I think he should take a shot at starting Young. Last season, Young was ineffective when playing with the bench, but he was very effective as a starter. The team went 8-5 in games that Young started. And Young's nice play in garbage time last game can at least give Flip the excuse to start him (when, admittedly, Young has done nothing else to deserve a starting role).

I think it was a smart move for the first three Wall games as he is introduced to the NBA pre-season game. Specially since we didn't have Howard ready we saw Kidd and Rose. An it could lite a fire under ATs butt. Let him know he is in a fight.

Just read a WP article basically saying he wanted to know if he can go with it if needed. Know he knows what it looks like. Said he would us it in the right situation, but not if he has to cover LeBron or anything. I give him one more game to start that but I would rather see him start AT next game. If AT or NY or Yi are not starting by the following game, that I will Flip out banging my head.

Thats what Flip says because everyone said he was stupid for doing it. He was really thinking about starting that lineup and he knows it. He's trying to back off it now and switch it up to make himself look good and say that he would never really do that

[Hoopalotta]

Maybe Flip just wants to check or facilitate the chemistry between Wall with both Hiney and Gil.

I'm putting the odds fairly high that Flip knows this won't work even in the short term and is utilizing it as a 'pre-season only' jobie. En if not, I'm thinking we're looking at a fleeting fling.

I tend to agree, but it's a bit frustrating nevertheless. Hinrich is the most well-known commodity on the team. He's the one guy who doesn't need extensive preseason minutes to evaluate his play. Flip's top priority should be to figure out who fits best at starting SF.

I think he should take a shot at starting Young. Last season, Young was ineffective when playing with the bench, but he was very effective as a starter. The team went 8-5 in games that Young started. And Young's nice play in garbage time last game can at least give Flip the excuse to start him (when, admittedly, Young has done nothing else to deserve a starting role).

I am no Nick backer, but it would be our best shooting lineup that also has some hope of matching up along the wing. The question is if Nick can prune his game back to where he's willing to forgo doing just about everything that he likes to do except for spot-up shooting from behind the stripe.

He can drop 3-balls at .40%, so it's worth consideration, especially given Al's general problems with spacing the floor and finishing plays started by others.

We're really reduced to looking for the 'least bad' option rather than some sort of ideal lineup and I would imagine that everything will be given a look at one point or another.