Washington at Oklahoma City Game Thread 1-28-11

[hands11]

It's nice to see John Wall with zero turnovers in 52 min. Let the kid develop and learn with his mistakes, he's a rookie in a rebuilding team.

tiago! could i trouble you to post some lines about what you think about the 3 euro pf/c's in the draft on the chicken little thread? good/bad? tough/soft? developed/project?

oh yeah... shakur looked flat out scared out there when he was running point. he shielded the ball with his body every time westbrook/maynor stepped to him, and had to basically back the ball down the court. zero ball movement when he was in. it was: waste 10 seconds to bring the ball up, waste 5 seconds to wait for Nick or Shard to come off a screen, waste 5 more seconds for nothing to develop, and then 4-5 seconds for them to launch an off-balanced, contested jumper.

it's weird that he was so concerned about getting his pocket picked by westbrook/maynor and yet he played so cavalierly against rondo.


oh yeah, major momentum killer when wall got his 3 blocked, but i blame that on Nick.

Shakur played all of 3 minutes last night..basically a few possessions, but yeah, he is playing overly- cautions - afraid of making a mistake out-there (Probably told to just run the plays and not look to score)

If you look at his game-logs, Shakur is obviously capable of playing less rigidly.
http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/m ... stats.html

Well considering his first two game he played totally natural with this ball handles, I'm not going to read into that to much. Personally, I didn't notice him playing overly scared are guarded as some of you are saying.

[Tiago]

It's nice to see John Wall with zero turnovers in 52 min. Let the kid develop and learn with his mistakes, he's a rookie in a rebuilding team.

tiago! could i trouble you to post some lines about what you think about the 3 euro pf/c's in the draft on the chicken little thread? good/bad? tough/soft? developed/project?

oh yeah... shakur looked flat out scared out there when he was running point. he shielded the ball with his body every time westbrook/maynor stepped to him, and had to basically back the ball down the court. zero ball movement when he was in. it was: waste 10 seconds to bring the ball up, waste 5 seconds to wait for Nick or Shard to come off a screen, waste 5 more seconds for nothing to develop, and then 4-5 seconds for them to launch an off-balanced, contested jumper.

it's weird that he was so concerned about getting his pocket picked by westbrook/maynor and yet he played so cavalierly against rondo.

oh yeah, major momentum killer when wall got his 3 blocked, but i blame that on Nick.

I suppose you're talking about Enes Kanter, Donatas Motiejunas and Jonas Valanciunas, right? Ok, I'll post some informations about those players. I don't know much about Enes Kanter, but I might be able to collect some notes about him.

[tontoz]

Prediction: Several boards of teams who had picks in the late teens/early 20s will have looked at the box score and be screaming that their team should have picked Booker. To say nothing of the T-wolves. (How's Lazar doing these days?) Nice to be on the other side of that equation, if only for a day...

He was all over the court. He had a good statline but a lot of the key plays he made won't show up in the stats. That kind of hustle and physicality is exactly what the Wizards need.

Some of those finishes he made inside were ridiculous. His strength and athleticism really stood out. It was almost like an NFL linebacker was allowed to play in an NBA game for a day. If he doesnt' get regular minutes after that display then i have to wonder what it will take.

[hands11]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 07355.html

"One thing you can't do in this league, if you've got one guy going at you at one end, and you're not aggressive at the other end, it's a mismatch," Saunders said. "And at times, he was letting Westbrook be too aggressive. John got his butt kicked."

The No. 1 overall pick was noticeably flustered in the first overtime as he rushed two three-pointers with the game tied at 110. The first attempt was blocked by Westbrook, leading to a shot clock violation. Wall then hesitated to take the second attempt and missed badly after waiting for Westbrook to contest it. Saunders was so upset he tossed his water bottle to the ground. Young screamed at Wall on the sideline, "C'mon, man."

--

Ouch. Hey, my problem with Wall last night was effort. And for the season, I think they put to much on the kid. I said that lots of times.

LOL I just put the game on again because I wanted to see what Mufafa did again.

Here was a sequent in the first quarter before I got to that.

Westbrook is already lighting things up. Had an alley op, another drive when Dray picked him up and got his second foul, etc.

7:24 Wall starts on the left. Dribble to right 3 line, between the leg come back move and launches a shot from 2 ft inside the 3 that clanks off the back of the iron from straight on. Nick rebounds and shoots - misses. Westbrook get the rebounds and start to run. Behind the back to get by Booker. Nick pick him up just after half court. He goes between the legs and gets past Nick. Now he is one the way to the hoop. Yi has him cut off from the left side and Wall is standing directly in his line to the rim. Oh, that is where Wall was the whole time this other stuff was happening. Lol

What does Wall do? NOTHING. He stands flat footed and watched him go by ala the worst of which we ever saw from AJ. Best seat in the house.

Flip should have yanked him right there. I don't mind seeing someone that is a rookie get burned, but ZERO EFFORT is not exceptionable.

Way to often I saw him standing around of offense and defense. Even if you are supposed to stand out of the 3 to draw the defense on a play, at least look like your ready to make a move. Jab a step here and there to keep them focused on you. Move a shoulder. Something. Anything more then just standing there watching.

That is what had me so pissed off about Wall that last game.

[tontoz]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-

Way to often I saw him standing around of offense and defense. Even if you are supposed to stand out of the 3 to draw the defense on a play, at least look like your ready to make a move. Jab a step here and there to keep them focused on you. Move a shoulder. Something. Anything more then just standing there watching.

That is what had me so pissed off about Wall that last game.

That is what really irritated me. A rookie struggling to score is one thing but the total lack of effort, especially on defense, was hard to watch. Westbrook did whatever he wanted and Wall wasn't even a speed bump. Wall played 52 minutes and picked up only 2 fouls even though his man was dominating the game.

Even Maynor was blowing right past him. He had 6 assists in only 13 minutes. He would go right past Wall and when help came he would dish for an easy score.

the Wiz got outscored on the break 27-8.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I said Wall is overrated and I mean that.

Maybe to you he is, but what were you expecting out of him??

People knew he was a bad shooter when he was drafted.
People knew he was turnover prone when he was drafted.
People knew his defense was not that good and needed improvement when he was drafted.

All of his questionable skills were known by everyone when he was drafted. I'm not really sure what you expected from the kid to call him overrated when all the troubles he is having, people knew of them before he even stepped on the court.

Here is some perspective for people who keep ripping on John as if they expected a finished product:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y4=2006

I thought Wall would struggle prior to the draft. He has been what I expected. However, he was spectacular in summer league play and is IMO injured. I am concerned about his durability.

I hope he's not hurting himself more playing through pain/injury.

[fishercob]

Ben, fish I said Wall is overrated and I mean that. I won't call you a bitch for disagreeing with me but at the same time I don't think censorship or namecalling is warranted.

Wall was the consensus #1 pick. While he managed the game terrifically, he shot poorly and his defense was atrocious. He has been a poor defender and a subpar shooter all season. That is the truth, not hate.

He is a stud athlete and one of the greatest assist generators ever. When he gets his shot down and when his defense tightens up he will be very good. Right now, he's not that good. Period.

All this blocking opinions and lableing posters is not good.

I'm happy with the way they played. Wall played hard and his best. He's not why they lost IMO. Durant at home was too much to beat.

Spare me. Did I directly call you or anyone else a bitch? I was commenting on the general whiny histrionics of the thread.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Didn't call me one by name, but "Lotta bitches in here" seemed to cover anyone who criticized. I only made three or four posts during the game and didn't read most of what was in the thread, but it struck me as routine stuff.

Who did you mean?

[fishercob]

If I had wanted to name names, I would have. I can comment as I see fit -- right, my freedom of speech loving friend?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If I had wanted to name names, I would have. I can comment as I see fit -- right, my freedom of speech loving friend?

I've got no problem with what you said--didn't take it personally at all

I just don't get why it's a big deal if fans bitch, whine, reverse position etc. Some folks tacitly excuse every coaching decision by saying the team has no talent. Bothers me and I disagree, but not to the point of getting personal with anyone about it. My stance on Flip is I thought he's more than lost enough to be fired, but then again I see guys improving and the team playing hard. As long as he treats his guys right mum is the word. Most of the time I don't like his coaching, but what else is new?

I think this board went downhill around the time the team started losing a bunch of games and folks who love to throw players like McGee under the bus took issue with those of us who threw Flip under the bus.

Maybe the team will keep playing hard and start to win more frequently and all can come together wIth the team's success and the coaches' success.

[fishercob]

If I had wanted to name names, I would have. I can comment as I see fit -- right, my freedom of speech loving friend?

I've got no problem with what you said--didn't take it personally at all

I just don't get why it's a big deal if fans bitch, whine, reverse position etc. Some folks tacitly excuse every coaching decision by saying the team has no talent. Bothers me and I disagree, but not to the point of getting personal with anyone about it. My stance on Flip is I thought he's more than lost enough to be fired, but then again I see guys improving and the team playing hard. As long as he treats his guys right mum is the word. Most of the time I don't like his coaching, but what else is new?

I think this board went downhill around the time the team started losing a bunch of games and folks who love to throw players like McGee under the bus took issue with those of us who threw Flip under the bus.

Maybe the team will keep playing hard and start to win more frequently and all can come together wIth the team's success and the coaches' success.

In the scheme of things, it's obviously not a big deal. I have friends with family in Egypt right now. What they're seeing is a "big deal."

But I do find the screaming that this guy or that guy sucks to be irritating. It generally lowers the level of the entire conversation and makes it less interesting. And I find it undignified.

It also shows how stark the contrast is between the fans and the players. The players and coaches are in the foxhole -- playing in incredibly loud and hostile environments -- and they keep their cool and focus forward. That's how we almost won last night. Things go wrong that were some of these guys actual faults and they take it in stride. Whereas many fans watch thinsg that they have nothing to do with and have incredibly impulsive, child-like reactions. For lack of a better word it's just starkly unprofessional. And I guess there's nothing inherently wrong with it. it's precisely why these individuals are the spectators and not the participants.

The other aspect of it is that it is counter to my very personal feeling of fandom. EVen in failure, I believe in true fans' duty to support their team. I see the exact opposite of that much of the time and that bugs me. My problem, no one else's. I put my faith in the owner who has asked for patience and I'm giving it to him. I'm looking at the big picture and am continuing to like what I see.

Whatever.

[gesa2]

When things are going bad, it's human nature to look for blame, and the more of the blame game we see, the easier it is to add to it. We're pretty bad right now. I don't always agree with some posters' complaints (and some prob don't like mine). But at least there's a big group that still cares. Best to have a generous spirit towards each other in these tough times.

[tontoz]

the good news is that they actually competed against a good team on the road. So many times this year they have laid down on the road.

[montestewart]

the good news is that they actually competed against a good team on the road. So many times this year they have laid down on the road.

Yeah, and not just a good team, but a team with two MVP candidates, neither of which was having an off game (Durant took awhile to turn it on, but once he did), along with a nice array of complimentary players.