Wizards at Magic Intermural Quidditch Match Thread

[cwb3]

For some reason the stats on McGee say one thing and my eyes tell me another thing entirely.

[dobrojim]

I think the trouble with relying on McGee as the team's starter is that many of the top teams have centers who absolutely demolish him on both sides of the court. So, maybe he's good enough to help us beat 3/4s of the league, but I worry that he'll never be able to hold his own where it really counts against great teams in the playoffs.

Or maybe I'm just bitter at how many stupid plays he made tonight. <shakes fist>

I was thinking the same thing at least wrt ORL. If you just look at the
pt dif btw Howard and McGee, that's ORL's lead in the game. As long
as these 2 players are the respective starters for these teams, it's going
to be almost impossible for us to beat ORL, kinda like when Ewing
was with the knicks and we had TSW.

Somebody mentioned tiring of Howard. I agree. I thought there
were at least a couple times when the refs really jobbed McGee,
thinking particularly of the 2nd foul he got when Howard was in the
paint for like 5 secs before the foul occurred. Even when McGee
tried to get in his way, they allowed Howard to bully his way to
the basket. Realistically, this isn't likely to change anytime soon,
the refs attitude about it that is.

If KS is the alternative, he's clearly better suited to defending
Howard than McGee is. This also shows just how large the gap
is between a reasonably solid starting C like Bogut and Howard.
McGee will probably always struggle against players like Howard
and Bynum. He poses no resistance to what they prefer to do.
But KS has GOT to learn how to set a pick without being called
for an off foul. It's nearly as bad as JM and his goaltending,
except McGee in his 3rd year should have figured it out by now.

Overall, seeing Wall play like he did made this game actually
encouraging in the long run.

And yeah, we missed Nick bad. Lewis too for that matter.

[hands11]

^ True.

As blowouts go, this one wasn't so bad. Wall played very well which is, by far, the most important thing in this waste of a season. Seraphin played well too which was a pleasant surprise. The only real disappointment was in how utterly ineffective McGee was in defending Howard. Howard was just so much quicker and stronger and beat McGee to his spots in order to establish deep position in the post. McGee just doesn't have the desire to fight Howard off those spots.

I'm surprised Flip didn't try to have McGee front Howard. I figure McGee of all people should be great at fronting the post. How can you lob over him? I guess one drawback is that Orlando shoots so well from 3 that it's hard to provide weakside help on the lob pass.

That true. That was a terrible match up to go into short handed. The fact they played to a lead almost the whole first half only gave people false hope. And to be short handed and have J Ho lay an egg like that was the dagger. Then add Martin giving them nothing. That was a dagger and an axe the neck.

I figured McGee and Dray would struggle. That's why I said start Seraphin. Let him get him two fouls. Then go to Armstrong. Let him get two. Then when Howard come out, put McGee in. At least he would have come in fresh and not with egg on his face. You simply can't start McGee against Howard.

Now if this was all part of a lesson and to deeper set in McGees mind what he needs to do this summer, and it will help drive him to do it, then starting McGee is fine.

[hands11]

That being said, I want Blatche and McGee off this team at the earliest opportunity.
I've seen enough, they don't have the tools, the smarts or the drive to succeed.

I'm with you on Blatche. I'd get rid of him as soon as we can get a decent offer.

I'm not there yet on McGee. I see that McGee is a soft player who shies away from contact, but that doesn't mean he can't be effective. He's just a bad matchup against the most physical centers in the league like Howard. It may mean that McGee will always be a "platoon" center where he'll play 36 minutes on some nights against favorable matchups, but play 18 minutes on other nights against unfavorable matchups; but it doesn't mean he can't be a very good player in this league.

And I like that we have the counterbalance to McGee's softness with Seraphin.

Yeah I may be cutting the cord on McGee pretty quick, but this is season 3 for him and I have yet to see a single sign of positive development in any aspect of his game. He can run and jump for sure, but he is a net liability on most NBA teams aside from those D'Antoni Suns teams from a few years back.

You are missing a lot of you haven't seen any development. He added 10 lbs over the summer and he is actually playing better D. Target to be overly critical of McGee starts about Jan next year. I suspect by then, people will be pretty sure they want to keep him around the next five years.

10 more lbs later and a summer with a good HOF level big coach and McGee will be impressing people a lot more. But if you are looking a McGee vs Howard today, he looks like trash. Luckily there aren't many Howards in the league.

[hands11]

I think the trouble with relying on McGee as the team's starter is that many of the top teams have centers who absolutely demolish him on both sides of the court. So, maybe he's good enough to help us beat 3/4s of the league, but I worry that he'll never be able to hold his own where it really counts against great teams in the playoffs.

Or maybe I'm just bitter at how many stupid plays he made tonight. <shakes fist>

I was thinking the same thing at least wrt ORL. If you just look at the
pt dif btw Howard and McGee, that's ORL's lead in the game. As long
as these 2 players are the respective starters for these teams, it's going
to be almost impossible for us to beat ORL, kinda like when Ewing
was with the knicks and we had TSW.

Somebody mentioned tiring of Howard. I agree. I thought there
were at least a couple times when the refs really jobbed McGee,
thinking particularly of the 2nd foul he got when Howard was in the
paint for like 5 secs before the foul occurred. Even when McGee
tried to get in his way, they allowed Howard to bully his way to
the basket. Realistically, this isn't likely to change anytime soon,
the refs attitude about it that is.

If KS is the alternative, he's clearly better suited to defending
Howard than McGee is. This also shows just how large the gap
is between a reasonably solid starting C like Bogut and Howard.
McGee will probably always struggle against players like Howard
and Bynum. He poses no resistance to what they prefer to do.
But KS has GOT to learn how to set a pick without being called
for an off foul. It's nearly as bad as JM and his goaltending,
except McGee in his 3rd year should have figured it out by now.

Overall, seeing Wall play like he did made this game actually
encouraging in the long run.

And yeah, we missed Nick bad. Lewis too for that matter.

Exactly and that is why it's good we have both. McGee will eventually be able to play some minutes against Howard, but that is only going to come when McGee is an offensive threat against him so he is drawing fouls also. With the right moves, McGee is going to be a handful. Howard can get in foul trouble just like anyone else.

But as it is, McGee can't stop him and he can't present enough of an offensive challenge to get him in foul trouble. Lose. Lose. At least Seraphin has to body to bang with him and make him work.

[Dat2U]

I still believe McGee's future will be as a super sub. At least on a contending team. The Wizards as it looks right now need BOTH a starting center and starting PF which means outside of Wall, the cupboard was truly bare. Thanks Ernie!

On a lottery team, McGee may suffice as a starter.

[cwb3]

You are missing a lot of you haven't seen any development. He added 10 lbs over the summer and he is actually playing better D. Target to be overly critical of McGee starts about Jan next year. I suspect by then, people will be pretty sure they want to keep him around the next five years.

10 more lbs later and a summer with a good HOF level big coach and McGee will be impressing people a lot more. But if you are looking a McGee vs Howard today, he looks like trash. Luckily there aren't many Howards in the league.

The only improvement I see on defense from McGee is with spacing on the floor: he is less prone to running into another Wizards player when making a switch. That's it. He still looks lost on defense, his spacing is still usually wrong in terms of how close to play his man off the ball. He does not know how to position for a rebound, he never thinks to block out. He is too into his shot blocking, to the point that when he fails to block the shot, he is now out of position to rebound or keep his man off the rebound. Then thier is the goaltending issue. . .

Yes he may have gained some weight, but still does not have the heart/grit to hold a position on the floor.

I suppose I can hold out for another year tho. . .you never know, this off-season could be when the conditioning and drills finally all come together. Just wish I saw some. . .fight out of him.

[Ruzious]

I have a solution to make McGee a more consistent player - just don't play him against Orlando. He gets absolutely manhandled every time, and he was probably mentally defeated before the game started. Just use the 18 fouls monster on Supaman (Seraphin and whatever other bigs are on the bench). Just say Jav's got the flu or something - whatever excuse Nick used to not play against his buddy Gil last night. Say he got suspended for tweating that Blatche is a wuss - anything... as long as guns aren't mentioned.

[nate33]

I have a solution to make McGee a more consistent player - just don't play him against Orlando. He gets absolutely manhandled every time, and he was probably mentally defeated before the game started. Just use the 18 fouls monster on Supaman (Seraphin and whatever other bigs are on the bench). Just say Jav's got the flu or something - whatever excuse Nick used to not play against his buddy Gil last night. Say he got suspended for tweating that Blatche is a wuss - anything... as long as guns aren't mentioned.

I was thinking that Flip should get McGee in the game the moment Howard picked up his 2nd foul. Play McGee when Howard is out, but play Seraphin when Howard is in.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ruz, Ramon Session is dealing on the Lakers, man.

He MUST be good then.

He IS.

The Cavaliers could trade Ramon Sessions, who scored 32 points in their win on Wednesday over the Lakers.

Sources tell Chris Broussard that the Hawks, Knicks and Blazers are among the interested parties in Sessions.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1EGPMRCDX

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Key words are.. In a few years. And lets not forget they have Hamady in the wings also. Not giving up on that project just yet. Biggest problem with our bigs is they are all projects right now but that ok because Wall is a rookie. Nick is also young enough to grow with them. By next year McGee will have to prove he is something more than that. He has logged some good minutes this year and shown some progress. But over the summer, he needs to add another 10lbs and an established move. I hope it is the hook. I think there is a good chance he does that. He add 10 lbs last year. McGee do actually put in good work over the summer.

Hey, Howard is coming into his prime right now at 26. He makes a lot of other centers look bad. He is a 6 year player. As talented as he is physically, he wasn't a polished player early on but he was always stronger then McGee. But Howard is a tirelessly hard worker. He chiseled his body. He works with big men HOF coaches to better his game. McGee needs to find someone like that this summer.

Howard isn't just strong, he is lean, compact, mobile and strong. And now he is adding a tougher mental approach. Howard never wanted to be an outside shooter. He game is all around the rim and that is what he works on.

Howard is coming into Shaq status. Can't stop him in the post because he just is to physical and quick for most everyone. And he has added some nimble moves. He can't shot free throws well like Shaq and he fouls out your team like Shaq. He was the number 1 pick like our J Wall.

While PGs are all the rage these days and I'm glad we have Wall, centers and SF/SG and SG/SF still rule in the playoffs.

At 6-9 275 and nimble on his feet and a McNasty style, I like Seraphin as a prospect for a big man banner in the paint off the bench. He could be our big baby only he is nastier then baby was to start. The team has young talent and it looks like they are in a good position to add more talent.

But if anyone is going to take anything meaningful from this game, it should only be that Wall played really well trying to carry the team without Nick and Lewis and that they started tough. Kirk played pretty well which helps his trade value and Seraphin got to bang with Howard and learn something. Them getting blown out means nothing. Given there available players, it was expected.

They had a rookie PG ( though a very good one), a DL SG, a SF in his second game back, Dray and McGee start against a top playoff team with D Howard as center.

I'm still looking forward to seeing what they can do post AS break. That is how I felt before this game and nothing has changed. They should be able to compete at a level of the bottom playoff teams and they will surprise a few of the teams better than that. That would be marked improvement from what we have seen for a while and good progress.

Really good post, hands. I think McGee does need to put in a good bit of work over the summer. If he does get 10 pounds of muscle, and he works on that hook it will improve his game quite a bit. I think he could stand to work on his FTs, too. WD, I would like to see Javale work on his low post moves--dude can view and practice Mikan drills.

Javale's exposure is going to grow ten-fold this all star weekend. He might go out and really make a fool of himself at the dunk contest. Or, he could win the thing. That might give him the big head. Whatever happens, I'm hoping he gets grounded and determined to fulfill his potential on the court.

The rest of your post about Seraphin, I also agree with. He's Big Baby in terms of footwork, but much more athletic, IMO. Seraphin IMO needs to be a PF.

I would love to have seen Flip try Seraphin with McGee against Howard. Let Javale use his mobility to space the floor like a four by just positioning himself on the court where Blatche would be. McGee's dunks start from outside in, any way. Seraphin on the block would have made a lot more sense against Howard, because Howard would need to expend some energy pushing him.

I like the young bigs at C more than most. Blatche is the one I'm concerned about, because of the way Flip allows him to jack shots, play soft, and stay on the court, regardless.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm with you on Blatche. I'd get rid of him as soon as we can get a decent offer.

I'm not there yet on McGee. I see that McGee is a soft player who shies away from contact, but that doesn't mean he can't be effective. He's just a bad matchup against the most physical centers in the league like Howard. It may mean that McGee will always be a "platoon" center where he'll play 36 minutes on some nights against favorable matchups, but play 18 minutes on other nights against unfavorable matchups; but it doesn't mean he can't be a very good player in this league.

And I like that we have the counterbalance to McGee's softness with Seraphin.

Yeah I may be cutting the cord on McGee pretty quick, but this is season 3 for him and I have yet to see a single sign of positive development in any aspect of his game. He can run and jump for sure, but he is a net liability on most NBA teams aside from those D'Antoni Suns teams from a few years back.

I was real down on McGee a week or so ago, but CCJ talked me off the ledge. McGee continues to lead the team, by a huge margin, in on/off differential. He continues to post a PER well above the league average for starting centers. He can't be all that bad when his individual and team stats are so good. He must be doing something right, even if he should be doing so much more.

Thanks, nate. I know McGee makes dumb plays, goal tends, and does some exasperating stuff out there but he's definitely improved.

His rebounding rate has been poor the past few games, but he has improved his defensive rebounding and total rebounding percentages this season by over 10%. Meanwhile, his fouls actually went down. McGee's TS% increased. McGee has actually shot less per-minute than in past seasons.

Javale is 2nd in the NBA in block percentage, 10th in offensive rebound percentage, and he shoots at .547 FG. Per-36 minutes McGee would average 12.3 points (on only 9.3FGA), 10.2 rebounds, 3.2 blocks, and 3.8 fouls/1.6 turnovers.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eja01.html

McGee makes this team very competitive when he's on the court. His biggest impact is on the offensive end of the court. The offense is 7.3 points per 100 possession better WITH McGee. The defense gives up more points per 100 possesions when McGee sits. Regardless of if Yi and Armstrong are terrible replacements, or if Seraphin is foul prone or if it's a layup drill for opponents when Blatche is at C; the one thing that you have to recognize is the deficit with McGee on the court is ONLY 1.9 points per 100 possessions.

In addition to having the highest PER on the team, McGee has the best On/Off differential, at +9.4.

Code: Select all

Stat                       ON Court    OFF Court   Net
            Minutes           1033         858     54%
   Offense: Pts per 100 Poss. 107.0       99.7    +7.3
   Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 108.9      111.0    -2.2
Net Points per 100 Possessions -1.9      -11.4    +9.4


http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS16.HTM

The bottom line with McGee is that he makes some dorky plays, goal tends, get pushed around and Flip reacts and so do many fans. HOWEVER, I think it's crazy that Javale gets 7 shots while Andray can jack 17 and miss 10 or more. I think it's really dumb the way folks do not watch the scoreboard when Javale sits--it rarely improves the Wizards.

I'd like to see Seraphin at C more, too, but I think he and Javale can play together 5-10 minutes a game.

Blatche is the guy who needs 10 less minutes a night. Javale is fine for 23 years old.

[hands11]

CCJ

Thanks.

Hey, when I was reading your post, I was expecting you to take your line of thinking in this one direction when you were talking about McGee and his exposure this weekend but you didnt. Maybe you were thinking this and just did write it.

You are right. McGee is about to get a lot more exposure. He has mostly been under the radar except for the USA team invites. But he didnt make the teams so while that was nice, it wasnt as much exposure as it could have been. I doubt there are a ton of people following the Wizards and when McGee does get national exposure, it is against some better team and he usually doesn't far as well there. Yeah, he makes some highlights here and there with blocks or dunks, but he is about to spend some time around a lot of NBA stars past and present.

With the ASB he is going to have the lime light on him in that dunk contest and if you ask me, there is zero worry regarding him making a fool of himself. If McGee can do one thing with his eye closed, it's do nasty elbow dunks. He is going to do that take the paper from the net with his teeth dunk and other amazing dunk. Even his straight up normal dunk is amazing with how long he is and how high he gets. If he can do the MJ foul line one, he will. And McGee is wacky enough to do something like what Howard did being super man. Maybe he will pull out the Rubber Man costume. That was what I called him when we talked nick names way back.

So back to what I was saying. With all this expose to past stars, with all eyes on him, hopefully some more players start offering help. Hopefully someone like a Jabar says, wow, this kid is a really unique talent, and he barely has a clue. He needs a big man like me to teach him the way. He already had C Web taking an interest so that is something. He had Team USA - Twice. Maybe this is a trend and maybe the AS event is what gets him the extra exposure he needs to land that big fish teacher. Maybe that taste of being legit. Maybe all the past and current players talking with him like they do J Wall. Even just getting little talks here and there from a Jabar, or Ewing, or any of a number of guys could help him.

Maybe McGee gets a Jabar to teach him. That would be awesome if he can land himself a big fish.

That is what the AS events are really about for us as Wizard fans. It the exposure he is about to get to these other great players.

[hands11]

You will see it. But its going to take a little time. Seraphin is just finding his way himself. But McNasty and Rubberman will be an interesting super hero combination down the road.

So if it turns out this way, Dray becomes Lamar Odom with less leaps. Seraphin becomes Rick Mahorn and McGee become... I dare not mention the names.. We will let McGee do his AS break and get in another summer.

Lets just say I still feel encouraged by the young talent we have. I know people think the team is talentless and sucks except Wall. I think we have more than most realize. We just need time and some luck that it develops well.

Booker, Seraphin and Wall are all rookies. Plus Hamady in the wings
McGee has played only 2.5 years. That is nothing for a project big mid first round pick.
Nick finally coming into his own in year 4

Right there I think we have 3 starters with Seraphin maybe able to start down the road and Booker a solid bench player who can start when needed. And hopefully Hamady turns into a solid bench player also. And all the rookie are not bubble heads like Nick and McGee were so they shouldnt take a long. Happy Hamady seems to be the Haywood of the group.

Planting seeds. Now we have to wait on the crop to grow. I see some fruit on the wines already. Wall was a top seed so the fruit is ripening more quickly.

[Ruzious]

Ruz, Ramon Session is dealing on the Lakers, man.

He MUST be good then.

He IS.

The Cavaliers could trade Ramon Sessions, who scored 32 points in their win on Wednesday over the Lakers.

Sources tell Chris Broussard that the Hawks, Knicks and Blazers are among the interested parties in Sessions.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1EGPMRCDX

He's good enough to lose with everywhere he goes. Notice, nobody wants to KEEP him. You do this every year - you cherry pick his best games, and then go See, I told ya so. Then, when he doesn't follow up, you keep quiet. Juan Dixon had a few great games, too. Where is he? Sessions is nothing more than a backup on a decent team.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Check Ray Allen before he became a Celtic, Ruz. Ray Allen was a TERRIBLE defender when he was with the Bucks. What did Ray ever win as a Sonic? Now look at him! Sessions stinks defensively as a Cavalier. But he's a first-rate distributor/scorer. He's still very young and can compete.

I think Sessions can really help the Hawks if they get him. Bibby can shoot it but he's otherwise a weak link and even slower defensively and weaker than Sessions. I do not understand the Blazers' interest unless Andre Miller and the coach are clashing. I also don't understand the Knicks' interest.

Overall, I think Sessions is a good player.