Beal, Wall, Jan,Hayes, Kwame Order from best -2-worst

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Did wizdynasty hack CCJ's account?

Wasn't drunk or on drugs with all those typos, either.

I'm so impressed by my own stream of conscious, pompous, grumpy, so-hard-to-read rant that I'm not even going to edit it.

I miss WD. Nobody should be shamed into leaving the board.

Did I mention if Vesely were bow-legged he could be an all star?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't think the Wizards undermined Vesely, I think circumstances have.

He does have athleticism and BBIQ. But lets be real, he has a limited skill set.
For the time being, he needs to be protected from being exposed for those
limitations and only put out there in limited situations. This is a justifiable
indictment of Ves as a 6th overall pick. All that said, there is time for this
situation to develop more favorably if the Wiz org have patience. At some point
in time, they will need to cut him loose if he fails to develop NBA skills. But they
shouldn't rush that decision.

Chicken and egg. Jim, they didn't do it on purpose and I am sure no one is downing the guy. I bet they all want him to play well.

I think the personnel moves undermined him. When I say Wizards I mean the Okariza deal and what it did to the career path. Vesely had to be expecting better minutes and growth opportunities, but his circumstances changed directly because of what Ted/EG did.

I know I predicted that the day they made the deal. Someone has to lose minutes when veterans are added to a roster. Invariably, any young guy who isn't a star in the making is going to ride the pine. If they don't handle that well by playing great in sparse minutes, those young guys will go from the bench to out the league.

[dobrojim]

If Ves wants minutes, he's gotta play better. Produce, or work on your game
in practice until you can. That's how it is from HS on up. Ves should not
feel entitled at all. Now KSera is in nearly the same boat. How are they
each going to respond?

[willbcocks]

I agree about Ves having the talent (not to be a star, but to be valuable) but not the confidence and drive. He did play well at the end of last year, and if he had busted his butt over the summer, he would be playing more. I just don't think he's ever going to find it in the NBA.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

(This is a long post defending Jan Vesely. His 43rd thru 57th last season games last season are all you need to look at. The rest explains …)


Vesely and Seraphin started the last 15 games last season. The Wizards were 8-2 over the last 10.

At the time of the Okariza deal, I warned that young players' careers would be sabotaged. Adding two veterans plus having Booker back from injury all but guaranteed very few minutes for Vesely and Singleton. Throw Webster and Earl Barron to the mix this season and the young guys got lost in the shuffle. I predicted that would be the case, but nothing changed who those guys are.

Their circumstances and the public perception of their play in limited minus, minus John Wall, plus many guys better or more experienced taking their jobs is what happened.

Vesey is NOT a bust. I remember the 8.5 point, 7 rebounds in just 28 minutes. He did that over these 15 games and he's quite capable if the Wizards play him. (And if his mind gets freed up to where he plays the same as he did those games. Note, the Wizards had a stretch four (James Singleton) and Nene playing like a beast then, not Okafor. Also, Singleton wasn't the PF in front of Jan then, either. That happened because of Ariza and Webster and Chris being better as a PF. ALL THESE THINGS BUMPED VESELY)

Here's a link to Jan's last 15 games last season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... :pgl_basic

Vesely's problems are psychological/discouragement/lost confidence/cultural shock related. Fans downing the guy don't help. Him being on the Wizards, who would undermine his career potentially are MOSTLY what is wrong.

The SMARTEST THING ANYBODY COULD DO would be to TELL JAN VESELY HE CAN DO LIKE BEAL AND RAISE HIS GAME IN TIME. Beal stunk it up early but now he's confident. Hard work and faith, plus talent, plus Bradley's great intelligence and his total game have come together.

Vesely has a very high basketball IQ and he can be an elite finisher.

Most fans don't know that much. They know how to down a guy.

nate, Fab Oberto put up Jan-like numbers under Flip Saunders.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2007/

Note how badly he flopped with Flip only three years after his prime with SA. (See his WS/48 fall off a cliff!)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... tfa01.html

LISTEN, I may offend here but I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. Years go by and people are finally saying Wall isn't great …

Well, JAN VESELY IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY GOOD BASKETBALL PLAYER IF HE IS USED CORRECTLY. Right now, he's down on the depth chart and he is demoralized.

An old saying goes, "Free your mind and the rest will follow". I like to say free your mind and your ass will follow.

Vesely needs to be put in successful situations and praised. He proved himself in the past and the Wizards have 27 or so games to work him back in the rotation. He needs to keep his head up and decide he's willing to be ready.

The problem started with the Wizard coaching when they told him to change. Get bigger. Bang in the post. Gain some weight. Vesely next had an injury. After that guys he can't outplay yet and Ted/EG changed the whole team with veterans who can win now. This season on top of all that, Jan sucked when Wall was out. That is won feeds Jan alley oops and whose speed game suits Jan. In limited minutes this season, with the losing record and his worse play, fans turned on Vesely. I believe the young guy lost his confidence. He reads blogs, probably. He has to be getting all the negative feedback, particularly about his FT shooting and that was ALWAYS BAD. Jan is athletic but now a shooter!

There is NO WAY he should have been the 6th pick but we all know that and so does he. The problem is people are putting dirt on his grave and Jan Vesely isn't dead yet as a Wizard.

Those last 15 games the guy STARTED and WON 8 of the LAST 10. This season has been a NIGHTMARE for his career. AND NOW HE HAS A LOT OF MONEY. (How does he spend his time and his money? How much focus is on his game with such limited minutes and his apparent lack of focus/maturity/confidence?) Last year he had smoking hot GF but I don't know what else. Could he be missing something/someone this season? (Or, has he got too many babes, I dunno). What I can tell is Vesely lacks confidence. (Not too many white in the NBA and none any more athletic+long as he IMO). That is why his shot and game are jacked up.

Sorry for the rant but I'm sure Vesely is a pretty good basketball player. I do not think so. I am sure of it.

I bet you'll be quoting those last 6 games from LAST season when Vesely still sucks next season. Vesely wasn't anywhere near the reason we won those games. he managed to play like a semi-average NBA player, but James Singleton and Nene were the reason for that successful run. Vesely is NOT and NBA player!

He is 7 feet and can finish and has a high basketball IQ. I know what he can do and the Wizards have undermined his career. I damn well is an NBA player but he probably will be in Europe in a couple seasons. Your short response to my long post says you have an opinion about 6 games but ignored stats over 15 with the guy starting and playing average NBA ball at 22 years old. He can play. He might not pan out but he can play.

Typical response of someone who probably wanted Wittman fired, too. Vesely is somebody if the Wizards were smart enough to use people like me or sports psychologists they could maximize his potential and unleash the guy's talent. Instead, they think like you, DANNY, and they get rid of people and waste assets.

Vesely is a guy who can do just a few things but he does those things well when the team around him is right. Wall can't shoot. Neither can Vesely. But Vesely HELPS THE TEAM when he is on the court.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS14.HTM

1100 minutes played and the team +1.9 with Vesely on the court vs off last season (above)

http://www.82games.com/1213/12WAS14.HTM

417 minutes played and the team +1.0 with Vesely on the court vs off this season.

Vesely is a role player who can be a very good guy to have on the court if there are shooters with him and Wall passing to him. He definitely is an NBA player and those games show it. He's had good games THIS SEASON, too.

I explained EVERYTHING and you still don't believe. Fine. ...

Well, the original post was about the worst 1st rd picks we've had and I think he's definitely the worst. Who drafts a player 6th overall just because he's 7 ft tall with no discernible basketball skills? He might turn out to be a decent role player, but you can't tell me that you are okay with coming out of an absolutely horrific 2010/2011 season with just a role player to show for it.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

I still don't agree with this notion that the organization is the reason for young players not getting better. if you look around in the NBA, the great ones, the All-Stars all have an incredible work ethic. Some had to work their way from the bench to become stars (i.e. Harden). Vesely doesn't seem like a guy who enjoys basketball or wants to be great at it. He's comfortable with the position he's in, that's why he made 0 improvements from last season to this season. I would have never watched a Wiz game if Ves had been playing ahead of Okafor all season. He needs minutes in the D-League not on a legit NBA team.

[dlts20]

Id still pick Wall #1. I love Beal but I still say that even though Wall's jumper is killing him/us, the main problem is the Witt/Flip system. Its just not Wall friendly. Its a lateral offense for the PG that is designed for him to either swing it back or pull up for a mid to long range jumper. Its built for guys like Billups/Cassell. If he gets in a downhill attacking Offense then I think he would show why he is the #1 pick

[WizardsWorld]

WALL
BEAL
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
No One else is even worth mentioning. Unless you wanna go back to Rip Hamilton, Juwan Howard, Tom Gugliotta, Rasheed Wallace.

[zardsfan]

My Order, which is based more on MY satisfaction with the picks than the players skill level, is:

Beal, Wall, Hayes, Kwame, Ves

Now... REASON for order:

Beal - Best available player at time of pick, even in retrospect - seems to have talent on par with #3 pick. No complaints.

Wall - Best available player in draft IMO. Fairly weak #1 - #1 compared to most years but that is just Wizards luck.

Hayes - A couple guys drafted after Hayes would have panned out better for the Wiz but I don't fault them for picking a 6'7" 220lb SG that had a nice looking stroke. But what a terrible year NOT to end up with a top 5 pick... James, Anthony, Bosh, Wade. Of course, if we had gotten a top 5 pick that year, we would have undoubtedly have pick Darko like Detroit did so perhaps it was just as well.

Kwame - Unfortuanately, luck of the draw puts Washington with it's first #1 - #1 with no clear cut #1 to pick. In this fairly weak draft class Washington would have been better off trading the #1 for (2) lower first rounders or even a high 1st and a high 2nd. The draft included some good players that, in hindsight, would have ended up being better picks than Kwame... such as Chandler (#2), Gasol (#3), Battier(#6) and Johnson(#10). If they could have ended up with 2 first rounders for the #1-#1, they might have been able to pick up a quality late first rounder like Richard Jefferson (#13), Zach Randolph (#19), Gerald Wallace (#25) and, Oh bye the way, two pretty good point guards in Tony Parker (#28) and Gilbert Arenas (#30). The only reason I rate the Kwame pick over Ves is because at least we were able to trade Kwame for Caron Butler... eventually.

Ves - I rank Ves last mainly because I really think there is a good chance that Washington could have picked him up with their #18 pick instead of wasting the #6 on him. However... 2011 was one of the WEAKEST draft classes EVER. Other than Kyrie Irving who went #1, none of the 2-5 picks really panned out much better than Ves. In retrospect, picking Leonard at #6 and Faried at #18 would have been awesome, but it was a really tough draft to harvest.

[cwb3]

Did wizdynasty hack CCJ's account?

Wasn't drunk or on drugs with all those typos, either.

I'm so impressed by my own stream of conscious, pompous, grumpy, so-hard-to-read rant that I'm not even going to edit it.

I miss WD. Nobody should be shamed into leaving the board.

Did I mention if Vesely were bow-legged he could be an all star?

I just do not see the talent in Jan that you see. He runs the court pretty well, that is about it. Nothing else about his game, even looking at his Euroleague clips, strikes me as NBA caliber.

I do agree with you, WD was entertaining in his own way. He may have a point about the Wiz staff hiring a superallstar former legend big man coach to teach Jan pump fakes! Jan needs help. Be it D-League or back to Europe. I cannot believe the Wizards organization thought he was worth the 6th pick.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I agree about Ves having the talent (not to be a star, but to be valuable) but not the confidence and drive. He did play well at the end of last year, and if he had busted his butt over the summer, he would be playing more. I just don't think he's ever going to find it in the NBA.

We have given Wall until this, his third season. Vesely should be given a bit more time, but you're perhaps on point, willb.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I still don't agree with this notion that the organization is the reason for young players not getting better. if you look around in the NBA, the great ones, the All-Stars all have an incredible work ethic. Some had to work their way from the bench to become stars (i.e. Harden). Vesely doesn't seem like a guy who enjoys basketball or wants to be great at it. He's comfortable with the position he's in, that's why he made 0 improvements from last season to this season. I would have never watched a Wiz game if Ves had been playing ahead of Okafor all season. He needs minutes in the D-League not on a legit NBA team.

How does a player get better on the bench? I'm not saying anyone made Vesely worse. What I am saying is players who go to the bench are thrown into random minutes here and there. Most of the time the competition for minutes starts with the veteran, high-salaried player playing the majority of minutes to start with. That player has to lose the job. At the same time a player like Vesely has to win back minutes with strong play.

Vesely seems to be down on himself. I don't think it is that he doesn't enjoy basketball but he does lack fire and confidence. If you look at his teammates, who is he going to beat in practice? Okafor, Booker, Nene, and Seraphin can all pretty much break him in half. Singleton is more skilled. Jan was wunderkind in Euro ball but now he's the 11th or 12th man. I think everyone considering him a bust has soured him on his NBA experience and the dude is demoralized. We both could be seeing him not wanting to be here, but for different reasons.

He just seems young to me. He is full of energy and enthusiasm when he dunks on people and when he gets minutes.

[dobrojim]

A player doesn't get better on the bench. A player gets better by working
their tail off in practice. That way, when the opportunity (in an actual game) does arise,
they are prepared FULLY to take advantage of it.

That is what Jan mindset has to be right now.

[nate33]

Vesely shoots 27.6% from the FT line. He can't get better at that in practice?

[Nivek]

Vesely is also not limited to actual practice time with the team. He can work on his game all he wants in his free time. Same as anyone else.

[dobrojim]

Vesely is also not limited to actual practice time with the team. He can work on his game all he wants in his free time. Same as anyone else.

agreed

my comment was not intended to mean that he could only practice during
organized team practices. By practice his tail off, I meant going above and
beyond regular team practice.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Vesely should be playing in the D-League as we speak. Thabeet did and now he's playing for OKC

Totally changed quote and "fixed" to say what I want to hear. Nivek didn't say that. I did. This would be one way Jan wouldn't be limited to just practice.

Caveat to the above suggestion:

How wise is it to have rich, young, NBA players alone riding the D-League charter bus alonside guys making less than 1 percent of what someone like Vesely makes? Perhaps there are safety concerns of leaving a young guy with all that money on his own.

[Nivek]

I'll say it -- Vesely should be playing in the D-League as we speak.

So should Seraphin and Singleton to be honest.

That said, there's nothing stopping them from working on their games at the NBA level except a willingness to go into a gym and spend time working on something they don't do well.

[zardsfan]

I'll say it -- Vesely should be playing in the D-League as we speak.

So should Seraphin and Singleton to be honest.

That said, there's nothing stopping them from working on their games at the NBA level except a willingness to go into a gym and spend time working on something they don't do well.

'My fingers,' said Elizabeth, 'do not move over this instrument in the masterly manner which I see so many women's do. They have not the same force or rapidity, and do not produce the same expression. But then I have always supposed it to be my own fault -- because I would not take the trouble of practising. It is not that I do not believe my fingers as capable as any other woman's of superior execution.'

Darcy smiled, and said, 'You are perfectly right. You have employed your time much better. No one admitted to the privilege of hearing you, can think any thing wanting. We neither of us perform to strangers.”
― Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice