GT #40: Sixers @ Wizards 2 PM MLK Jr. Day

[DCZards]

He hasn't improved since the second half of last season. I can tell that from watching the games and looking at the stats. That's not saying he won't improve - I'm sure he will. I won't just assume he'll be a star, though. I think it's reasonable to monitor whether or not a young player is improving.

I disagree. For example, lately I see a player increasingly trying to attack the basket. That's an important and much-needed improvement, imo. Even if Beal's stats don't improve much this year as compared to last year that doesn't mean he's not improving. Again, stats don't tell the whole story.

I cetainly agree that it's reasonable to monitor (and question) Beal's improvement. But it's unreasonable to not expect some inconsistent play from a 20 year old, second year player.

[TGW]

Of course Beal has gotten better. It's pretty obvious if you watch him play and don't rely solely on stats. Yeah there's a lot of room for improvement, but those expecting a 20 yr old, second yr. player to make instant improvement and play consistent ball are being a little shortsighted.

The "he's not improving" stuff kind of reminds me of what some posters were saying about Wall a couple of years ago. Takes time for a young in' to consistently excel in the NBA.

He hasn't improved since the second half of last season. I can tell that from watching the games and looking at the stats. That's not saying he won't improve - I'm sure he will. I won't just assume he'll be a star, though. I think it's reasonable to monitor whether or not a young player is improving.

Exactly. "attacking the rim more" isn't an improvement, just a different mindset. he may be attacking more, but that's not translating into successful attempts.

I stand by my statement that Beal hasn't improved. He's the same player he was last year for the most part. The stats and my eyes are in agreement.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

dckingsfan wrote:

drstone22 wrote:
Beal is 20 years old and still growing according to one report and he is averaging 15 ppg in the freaking nba.

The kid deserves more time !

He is averaging 33.1 mpg - how much more time do you want to give him?

Really, not much about his stat line has changed since his rookie season. I think he just needs time - but I would have said that 33 mpg is too many, not the other way around.

That's kind of a deceiving argument since his MPG has dropped considerably since his return from injury. He was putting up good numbers before his injury. Almost 21 ppg, a little over 4 boards, and a little under 4 dimes on about 80% from the line and 44% from trey. Yes his FG% still wasn't anything to gloat about (41.3) but he hasn't quite been the same for the most part since the injury. We all know he needs to make better decisions when it comes to shooting long 2s and driving to the rim more but it doesn't mean he's peaked or that he has regressed.

[dckingsfan]

dckingsfan wrote:

drstone22 wrote:
Beal is 20 years old and still growing according to one report and he is averaging 15 ppg in the freaking nba.

The kid deserves more time !

He is averaging 33.1 mpg - how much more time do you want to give him?

Really, not much about his stat line has changed since his rookie season. I think he just needs time - but I would have said that 33 mpg is too many, not the other way around.

That's kind of a deceiving argument since his MPG has dropped considerably since his return from injury. He was putting up good numbers before his injury. Almost 21 ppg, a little over 4 boards, and a little under 4 dimes on about 80% from the line and 44% from trey. Yes his FG% still wasn't anything to gloat about (41.3) but he hasn't quite been the same for the most part since the injury. We all know he needs to make better decisions when it comes to shooting long 2s and driving to the rim more but it doesn't mean he's peaked or that he has regressed.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nced::none

[dckingsfan]

I am not saying he hasn't improved in any areas. I think his handles are better... I think he is passing better.

I don't think his defense is appreciably better... lots of folks have chatted about the long 2s and inability to get to the rim.

Others here have pointed out that they think his breakout year will be next year. I was hoping to see a bit more progress by now. But - we need to give him more time (not more minutes though).

[dckingsfan]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... tats::none

By age... he is in pretty good company

[popper]

Beal's going through the normal NBA learning curve. No need to worry as he's got a good attitude combined with a pure stroke and making strides with his ball handling and distributing. He will be a solid-as-a-rock NBA player.

[stevemcqueen1]

Seraphin played well, great hustle, but my god he plays with blinkers on as soon as he catches the ball anywhere near the paint. Dude just puts his head down and tries to muscle/move his way to the rack or does a spin move and a little jumper.

Its like someone spilled soda on the pass button.

LOL, Seraphin is such a black hole. He refuses to pass. He gets the ball and forgets there are 4 other people on the court.

Seraphin is a basketball tease. He's got a nice set of skills that are intriguing in isolation. But he's not the sum of his parts. He came to the game late and has never had good instincts. I think he tunnel visions into one move and just doesn't see the floor.

Every once in a while he has a game like some of the last few where he plays under control and that interesting skill set gets put to good use. That's why he's a tease.

[AFM]

Seraphin played well, great hustle, but my god he plays with blinkers on as soon as he catches the ball anywhere near the paint. Dude just puts his head down and tries to muscle/move his way to the rack or does a spin move and a little jumper.

Its like someone spilled soda on the pass button.

LOL, Seraphin is such a black hole. He refuses to pass. He gets the ball and forgets there are 4 other people on the court.

Seraphin is a basketball tease. He's got a nice set of skills that are intriguing in isolation. But he's not the sum of his parts. He came to the game late and has never had good instincts. I think he tunnel visions into one move and just doesn't see the floor.

Every once in a while he has a game like some of the last few where he plays under control and that interesting skill set gets put to good use. That's why he's a tease.

True enough. Honestly it's hard to give up on him, because his hook shot and touch is SO nice, like only a french man could do (ask monte about how nice frenchmen's hands can be). But damn, that dude just can't put it together can he?

[stevemcqueen1]

LOL, Seraphin is such a black hole. He refuses to pass. He gets the ball and forgets there are 4 other people on the court.

Seraphin is a basketball tease. He's got a nice set of skills that are intriguing in isolation. But he's not the sum of his parts. He came to the game late and has never had good instincts. I think he tunnel visions into one move and just doesn't see the floor.

Every once in a while he has a game like some of the last few where he plays under control and that interesting skill set gets put to good use. That's why he's a tease.

True enough. Honestly it's hard to give up on him, because his hook shot and touch is SO nice, like only a french man could do (ask monte about how nice frenchmen's hands can be). But damn, that dude just can't put it together can he?

Is four years long enough to figure it out? He was totally raw when we picked him.

4-6 years used to be the timeline for bigs and that was with guys who went to college for a couple years. By the old reckoning, Seraphin is on the front end of that window for demonstrating to us who he's going to be as a player.

Six years is a second contract though. That's half a good career. I don't know how long we can afford to give him at this point. FA this summer is going to force us to make decisions.

Especially since all of our other bigs are uncertain and flawed and in development too. Picking four bigs in the draft to develop all at once was stupid.

[veji1]

I haven't posted in a while, but on the subject of Seraphin, I think he is the typical case of a player who needs being the focal point of a team to learn how to play better.

Obviously he is not good enough to be that in the NBA ! What I mean is that he has gone from being a young player with potential in france, to a young player with potential in the NBA, to a player with some experience, but not quite able to put it all together because he lacks the feel for the game. Most of the solid NBA players have that feel for the game because they have been playing since age 8 or so, and almost as semi pros since age 14/15.

To me what would help Seraphin tremendously is to do a bit what Alexis Ajinca was forced to do once cut from the NBA in 2011 : go back to Europe, plays there 35 minutes night in / night out, be at the centre of his teams' play, learning how to be a central cog of a team with his aggressive play on offense but also knowing when to pass the ball when double teamed, when to be a decoy, how to defend, how to order the other players around, be vocal, be a leader in summary.

Then he would have the ability of knowing what he can bring or cannot, learn how to read situations in game and adapt. Right now he doesn't.

He is quite typical of those slow learning players that can get burnt and exposed when jumping to the NBA because they are simply not ready. I really think something that we will see in the future is NBA teams having the rights to some young players "lending" them for a season to other teams in Europe or so for them to keep improving. A bit like it happens in soccer in Europe where a big club like Manchester United can lend an 19 years old youngster to a smaller club so that he plays, gains confidence, improves and becomes ready to play on the big stage.

The DLeague cannot really do it so far because the level there is so atrocious, no real play calling, rosters that keep changing, etc...

The ideal scenario with Seraphin would have been to draft him, have him come and practice with the team, play a bit, learn there for the first season, than send him to Europe to play as a key cog in a club for a season (EDIT : or even two !), to learn how to be an important player, grow calmer, gain more of a feel for the game, and then bring him back.

Right now Seraphin's problem is that he is not good enough (because of his tunnel vision, lack of rebounding) to warrant 30 minutes a night, yet because of his limited experience and slow learning needs those 30 minutes in a real team setting (not Dleague) to really improve and then might very well be really solid.

Time will tell but when I compare Ajinça now to who he was in 2011, I see a completely different player because in 2 and a half year back in Europe he has simply learned how to play, what being a big man means, why you need to bang inside, box out, defend, etc... Because he has played for those 2 years and be a key member of his team.

Anyway sorry for the digression, just wanted to share my advice.

[verbal8]

The DLeague cannot really do it so far because the level there is so atrocious, no real play calling, rosters that keep changing, etc...

The ideal scenario with Seraphin would have been to draft him, have him come and practice with the team, play a bit, learn there for the first season, than send him to Europe to play as a key cog in a club for a season (EDIT : or even two !), to learn how to be an important player, grow calmer, gain more of a feel for the game, and then bring him back.

A very strong argument for a D-League affiliate. Even if the games aren't great, at least practice can be more useful. This terrible draft class maybe the best thing for the level of the D-League. If players who look like disasters end up productive after D-League stints, it may end up being the general rule for non-lotto 1st round picks rather than the exception.

[veji1]

The DLeague cannot really do it so far because the level there is so atrocious, no real play calling, rosters that keep changing, etc...

The ideal scenario with Seraphin would have been to draft him, have him come and practice with the team, play a bit, learn there for the first season, than send him to Europe to play as a key cog in a club for a season (EDIT : or even two !), to learn how to be an important player, grow calmer, gain more of a feel for the game, and then bring him back.

A very strong argument for a D-League affiliate. Even if the games aren't great, at least practice can be more useful. This terrible draft class maybe the best thing for the level of the D-League. If players who look like disasters end up productive after D-League stints, it may end up being the general rule for non-lotto 1st round picks rather than the exception.

I agree to some extent, but the DLeague is not quite ready yet for that. I mean the difference with pro leagues in Europe is ginourmous.

To me there has always been draft busts, but it has been bigger in the last 15/20 years because of the end of the whole collegiate carreer. Even the one year in uni rule is not enough, and it also doesn't apply to europeans. So a Seraphin can be a 19 year old prospect and get drafted, after having never regularly played 25+ minutes a game at a suitably high level of competition.

the NCAA game in the 80s and early 90s for big programs was of a considerably higher level of competition (relatively speaking) compared with today. a 22 year old rookie had a lot more experience, he had played 4 years in a college, having lots of games and playing time, he was a lot more seasoned.

Not you have 19 years old europeans or international who have hardly played pro, or players that just did their freshmen year in college, drafted in the NBA. The creme rises to the top straight away, but some players that might actually be very good but slow learners fall by the wayside, while if they could developp their game a few more years in a competitive envrironment, with a real role, but at a slightly lower level than the NBA, they might really become good players.

in 10 years time the Dleague might play that role well, but today it cannot. Really the best way to do it today would be for a team to have the ability of loaning its rookies one or 2 seasons to pro clubs where they could keep developping./

[veji1]

I mean look at this year's draft as you said.. A Bennett could really have used one or two years in Europe !