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Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread

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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#21 » by payitforward » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:10 am

TheSecretWeapon wrote:
DCZards wrote:TSW, I’m not suggesting that the Zards FO didn’t make a mistake in thinking there was still a chance to make the playoffs. (Of course, it’s always easier to argue in hindsight that it was a mistake.)

But I don’t think it was necessarily a mistake for the Zards to not trade Sessions to a playoff team in some sort of fire sale. It's very likely that the best “value or asset” that the Zards would have received from a playoff-bound team for Sessions would have been a late second round draft pick. A re-signed Sessions is arguably worth valuable than that pick.

Plus, for all I/we know, the Zards might have indeed tried to trade both Sessions and Dudley before the deadline.

Gotcha. And fair points. I wasn't advocating a fire sale myself, even though I thought the playoffs were unlikely. And I'd be fine with Sessions and Dudley returning next season, though they would surely be very low priorities. And they'd have to be in roles appropriate to their games/abilities. In other words: not starting Dudley at PF. They're both headed for the wrong side of 30, but they should be contributors for the next season or two.

Sessions is an unrestricted free agent starting tomorrow evening. Trading him wouldn't have meant getting "a late second round pick" *instead* of him. We don't have him. Besides, who says we'd get so little for him?

Not to mention that once you've established the notion that we'd get (in effect) nothing for him, then *of course* your argument not to trade him holds water. It's a circular argument.

And, if I remember rightly (correct me if I'm wrong), you made more or less the same argument in re: the trade for Markieff Morris. A late lottery pick, according to you, wasn't going to yield as good a player as Markieff Morris -- therefore trading such a pick for Morris was a good idea. Sure. Accept the premise, and you have to accept the conclusion -- since the premise in fact includes that conclusion!

Ditto your statement that "it’s always easier to argue in hindsight that (something) was a mistake." Actually, the *only* time you can argue that something was a mistake is in hindsight.

Of course, that hindsight can happen one minute after the event itself. I, and a bunch of others here, said *immediately* that this was a terrible trade. And that's what it was. We aren't right "in hindsight" -- we're just right, period.

If you follow your usual pattern, your next response will be "we won't know whether this was a good trade for a year or so." No, sorry. A bad trade now and forever.

And anyway, when that day in "a year or so" comes and I or someone else says "what a crap trade that was!" I assume your response would be -- as it has been in such situations the whole time I've been on this Board -- to say "why focus on the past and bring up all that stuff no one can change. Why not focus on now and on the future?"

Do you recognize this pattern? No criticism intended, but it does seem to match the attitude you've taken.
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#22 » by DCZards » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:41 am

PIF, are you always so condescending? Or is this just the persona you take on when you're posting on the internet?
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#23 » by CobraCommander » Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:06 am

I love sessions but we need a true quality combo guard not named temple. I say this because we need someone that can play defense on the 2 or play next to Wall when Beal is hurt ---- or Run the point with Beal on the off chance Beal isn't hurt. Sessions was/is good but his defense has been bad because of his size. Also when he backs up Wall against decent teams he seems to be a shoot first player. I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW Tontoz gonna beat me up with stats (facts) but I am giving you my opinion from watching the games. Tontoz before you you own it...I know that the stats support your argument but I am going off of what I see. To me Sessions would be a much better player on a team that is good that needs someone to hold the lead or not lose the lead while starters rest. While I feel like the Wiz need someone that can jump start the team when the starters are struggling. I don't see that from session...
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#24 » by dckingsfan » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:30 pm

Well, I think there should have been a point in the season - near the trade deadline where we said, "this just isn't our year". We would have traded anyone not named Wall/Porter/Gortat/Oubre and then we would have shut Wall down.

If that netted us two second round picks - fine. I am guessing some teams would have paid more. And we wouldn't have given up our first.

One could say this is hindsight... but it really wasn't. At best we were going to work our way into the 8th seed and get dumped. Once more our FO failed.
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#25 » by fishercob » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:43 pm

DCZards wrote:PIF, are you always so condescending? Or is this just the persona you take on when you're posting on the internet?


PIF's style and tone are grating as hell. But I think the substance of his post is on point here.
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#26 » by DCZards » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:47 pm

fishercob wrote:
DCZards wrote:PIF, are you always so condescending? Or is this just the persona you take on when you're posting on the internet?


PIF's style and tone are grating as hell. But I think the substance of his post is on point here.


"Grating," huh, fish? I guess that's one way of looking at PIF's personal attacks.
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#27 » by payitforward » Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:46 pm

DCZards wrote:PIF, are you always so condescending? Or is this just the persona you take on when you're posting on the internet?

Zards, I have no interest in offending you. You're a long-time Wizards fan, a long-time poster here, a valuable member of this online community. If I did, then whether what I wrote was right or wrong, the result was not something I'd have wanted, and I apologize.

OTOH, I don't see how there was anything condescending in what I wrote. For that matter, ask yourself how many times you've responded to something I wrote (e.g. criticizing a Grunfeld draft pick or trade) by telling me what a waste of time it was for me to write what I did -- "why look backwards?" It'd be easy enough for me to see that as kind of condescending on your part, no?

So... should I turn it around, and ask you why *you* feel the need to be condescending so frequently? Why you feel you can simply dismiss points of view without actually engaging with them?

A good recent example would be someone asking you why you'd have traded Dudley but not Sessions. Your reply was "Because I consider Dudley more expendable." But, of course you do, and that's no reply at all! That's just repeating what you had said!

The questioner wanted to know why you would consider Dudley expendable but not Sessions. You gave his question no attention at all -- just dismissed it. Wasn't that condescending on your part?

Should I go on, therefore, to ask whether you're condescending like that all the time? Or just in this forum? In other words, should I mirror the way you just characterized me? I doubt it'd get us anywhere towards mutual understanding, so nah I'm not doing that.

I think that the post I wrote was the *opposite* of condescending, Zards. I think it was respectful. Which is appropriate. You can ignore it if you want. Or you can engage with it.

If I'm mistaken I'll be happy to admit it. I'm often wrong -- in real life and on the Internet. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if a person is not willing to be wrong, and to admit it, it makes it almost impossible to be right very often except by accident. YMMV.

Either way, I'm sorry you reacted as you did to my post, i.e. in a somewhat insulting way. It's been a rotten season, and the Wizards are in a self-created mess. We're fans, and perhaps you're just reflecting your annoyance w/ the franchise. Whether you apologize or not, I'll give you a pass on calling me condescending. I'll appreciate your not doing it again, ok?
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#28 » by tontoz » Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:54 pm

Personal attack? I didn't see anything about that post that was a personal attack. I have seen PIF going into attack mode and I don't think that qualifies.

Frankly it never occurred to me during the season to trade Sessions, but if we did whose to say we couldn't resign him in the summer?
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#29 » by payitforward » Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:56 pm

DCZards wrote:
fishercob wrote:
DCZards wrote:PIF, are you always so condescending? Or is this just the persona you take on when you're posting on the internet?

PIF's style and tone are grating as hell. But I think the substance of his post is on point here.

"Grating," huh, fish? I guess that's one way of looking at PIF's personal attacks.

...edit...

Zards, I'm not interested in having a fight. Why don't you put me on ignore if you can't stand someone pointing to a way you may be wrong about something and why and a different way to look at it?
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#30 » by DCZards » Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:42 pm

payitforward wrote:
Zards, I'm not interested in having a fight. Why don't you put me on ignore if you can't stand someone pointing to a way you may be wrong about something and why and a different way to look at it?


Better yet, pif, why don't you put me on ignore. That way you won't be tempted to respond to my opinion in what fishercob calls your "grating as hell" style and tone.
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#31 » by Kanyewest » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:06 pm

I don't think many teams were that interested in Sessions even though he has been pretty efficient. Not only is a free agent but most teams in the playoff picture seemed set at those positions

Warriors- Curry/Livingston
Spurs- Parker/Mills
Thunder- Westbrook/Payne and traded for Foye
Chicago- Rose/Brooks
Cleveland- Irving/Delly/Mo Williams
Dallas- Williams/Barea/Harris
Charlotte- Walker/Lin
Detroit- Jackson/Augustin
Celtics- Thomas/Smart
Atlanta- Teague/Schroder
Toronto - Lowry/Joseph
Miami- Dragic/Richardson/Udrih
Utah- Traded for Mack for is significantly younger than Sessions and Neto/Trey Burke
Clippers - Paul and Austin Rivers (This may have made sense but then consider the fact that Doc Rivers is not going to sabotage his son)

Houston might not value Sessions that much as a backup given his lack of 3 point shooting. Perhaps, Houston may have given up a 2nd rounder- but I could also see Houston not willing the budge on a such a trade.

Maybe you could argue that a team like Indiana would have been a potential trade partner at the deadline but it seems they may be better off by signing Ty Lawson and keeping their draft picks.

The Knicks need a point guard but they currently have no picks.
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#32 » by payitforward » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:10 pm

DCZards wrote:
payitforward wrote:Zards, I'm not interested in having a fight. Why don't you put me on ignore if you can't stand someone pointing to a way you may be wrong about something and why and a different way to look at it?

Better yet, pif, why don't you put me on ignore. That way you won't be tempted to respond to my opinion in what fishercob calls your "grating as hell" style and tone.

No way, man. Not putting you on ignore. Don't have any trouble w/ you whatsoever.

How about we smoke the peace pipe? More better I think....
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#33 » by payitforward » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:17 pm

Kanyewest wrote:I don't think many teams were that interested in Sessions even though he has been pretty efficient. Not only is a free agent but most teams in the playoff picture seemed set at those positions

Warriors- Curry/Livingston
Spurs- Parker/Mills
Thunder- Westbrook/Payne and traded for Foye
Chicago- Rose/Brooks
Cleveland- Irving/Delly/Mo Williams
Dallas- Williams/Barea/Harris
Charlotte- Walker/Lin
Detroit- Jackson/Augustin
Celtics- Thomas/Smart
Atlanta- Teague/Schroder
Toronto - Lowry/Joseph
Miami- Dragic/Richardson/Udrih
Utah- Traded for Mack for is significantly younger than Sessions and Neto/Trey Burke
Clippers - Paul and Austin Rivers (This may have made sense but then consider the fact that Doc Rivers is not going to sabotage his son)

Houston might not value Sessions that much as a backup given his lack of 3 point shooting. Perhaps, Houston may have given up a 2nd rounder- but I could also see Houston not willing the budge on a such a trade.

Maybe you could argue that a team like Indiana would have been a potential trade partner at the deadline but it seems they may be better off by signing Ty Lawson and keeping their draft picks.

The Knicks need a point guard but they currently have no picks.

Good points.

This being an "Appreciation" thread, lets return to appreciating Ramon. When Ernie traded for him last year, he was playing horribly for Sacramento. He'd had some good years, but I didn't like the trade. I thought Andre Miller was playing quite well for us -- despite criticism of his "old man" game -- so I didn't see why to trade him.

But, I was wrong: Sessions came in and played very well indeed, and he did again this year. I'll be surprised if he hasn't earned himself a big raise somewhere in the league, and I'd be very happy if he was with us again.
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#34 » by DCZards » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:38 am

payitforward wrote:
DCZards wrote:
payitforward wrote:Zards, I'm not interested in having a fight. Why don't you put me on ignore if you can't stand someone pointing to a way you may be wrong about something and why and a different way to look at it?

Better yet, pif, why don't you put me on ignore. That way you won't be tempted to respond to my opinion in what fishercob calls your "grating as hell" style and tone.

No way, man. Not putting you on ignore. Don't have any trouble w/ you whatsoever.

How about we smoke the peace pipe? More better I think....


Peace pipe it is. Let's just make sure we're smoking the good stuff. :) Go Wizards!
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#35 » by stevemcqueen1 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:34 am

Get the man a new contract.
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#36 » by AFM » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:42 am

How about we all put each other on ignore? That way this forum can be like 20 deaf men in a room together.
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Re: Official Ramon Sessions Appreciation Thread 

Post#37 » by SizzlinSimms » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:52 am

Letting Sessions walk would be a huge mistake in my mind. He's almost he perfect back up to Wall.

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