Political Roundtable Part XIV

[montestewart]

I will repeat this as many times as necessary. You guys, feel free to help me refine this message if necessary:

Every picture posted online of a fascist getting punched/hit/stabbed/shot is a victory for fascism.

We can counterprotest effectively but separately, nearby but not overlapping geographically. If the fascists have a protest of 700 people, have your own protest, across town, of 7000 people. Suck the cameras away from the fascist demonstration. If the fascists march over to where you are, let them beat you up. Sing "We shall overcome" in their faces. Link hands and force them to run you over. Red rover, red rover, send Richard Spencer on over!

Get a fricking permit.

But do not - do *not*, under any circumstances, punch a Nazi. Get a friend to take a picture of you getting punched by a Nazi - that is a THOUSAND times more effective.

Resist. But peacefully. INTELLIGENTLY.

Good point, the only refinement I can think of is to remember that white supremacists want to provoke violence, they want to fan the flames, they want a riot, to make whites who are on the line fear the opposition. They want to convince whites that Heather Heyer was dangerous. If they can bait counter-protesters into hitting first, all the better, but as a group they aren't so disciplined in their racism that they won't hit first and edit-and-distort later.

I imagine an anti-White Supremacy rally coming to DC in the near future that will dwarf the storm trooper counter protest, but their most effective recruitment poster will be a savage group of THEM (blacks, commies, controlled by Jews, etc.) beating up a lone white guy in his preppie polo and khakis, with his Nazi armbanded, club wielding buddies cropped out of the frame.

[Zonkerbl]

Where's the nearest Confederate statue btw?

[Zonkerbl]

I will repeat this as many times as necessary. You guys, feel free to help me refine this message if necessary:

Every picture posted online of a fascist getting punched/hit/stabbed/shot is a victory for fascism.

We can counterprotest effectively but separately, nearby but not overlapping geographically. If the fascists have a protest of 700 people, have your own protest, across town, of 7000 people. Suck the cameras away from the fascist demonstration. If the fascists march over to where you are, let them beat you up. Sing "We shall overcome" in their faces. Link hands and force them to run you over. Red rover, red rover, send Richard Spencer on over!

Get a fricking permit.

But do not - do *not*, under any circumstances, punch a Nazi. Get a friend to take a picture of you getting punched by a Nazi - that is a THOUSAND times more effective.

Resist. But peacefully. INTELLIGENTLY.

Good point, the only refinement I can think of is to remember that white supremacists want to provoke violence, they want to fan the flames, they want a riot, to make whites who are on the line fear the opposition. They want to convince whites that Heather Heyer was dangerous. If they can bait counter-protesters into hitting first, all the better, but as a group they aren't so disciplined in their racism that they won't hit first and edit-and-distort later.

I imagine an anti-White Supremacy rally coming to DC in the near future that will dwarf the storm trooper counter protest, but their most effective recruitment poster will be a savage group of THEM (blacks, commies, controlled by Jews, etc.) beating up a lone white guy in his preppie polo and khakis, with his Nazi armbanded, club wielding buddies cropped out of the frame.

I think this is the thing that people don't understand - nonviolent protest is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. MLK Jr. and his followers literally had to sit there and take it while white supremacists beat the snot out of them. It was because of their EXTRAORDINARY DISCIPLINE that the *only* available violent footage was white people beating the snot out of black people. It wasn't fun, and frankly they were risking their lives - no one participating in those demonstrations could say for sure they would live - but it was extremely effective.

We can't afford to be weenies about this. We have to sit there and take it while fascists beat the snot out of us. I'm sorry it has to be this way but it's the only thing that will work short of an extremely bloody civil war. It's worth it.

[JWizmentality]

I will repeat this as many times as necessary. You guys, feel free to help me refine this message if necessary:

Every picture posted online of a fascist getting punched/hit/stabbed/shot is a victory for fascism.

We can counterprotest effectively but separately, nearby but not overlapping geographically. If the fascists have a protest of 700 people, have your own protest, across town, of 7000 people. Suck the cameras away from the fascist demonstration. If the fascists march over to where you are, let them beat you up. Sing "We shall overcome" in their faces. Link hands and force them to run you over. Red rover, red rover, send Richard Spencer on over!

Get a fricking permit.

But do not - do *not*, under any circumstances, punch a Nazi. Get a friend to take a picture of you getting punched by a Nazi - that is a THOUSAND times more effective.

Resist. But peacefully. INTELLIGENTLY.

That worked during the 1950s. Not now. It's all fake news. This is not a fact based society anymore. Turning the other cheek is unfortunately dead. Sure go get the snot beat out if you, half this nation's media will say it never happened. Different times brother.

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[Zonkerbl]

I'm deadly serious about this. Do we want to turn into Israel and Palestine? Non violence is even more important than ever, because one tiny slipup gets broadcast all over the world.

Yeah, I admit the nazis are already making stuff up: http://www.snopes.com/antifa-member-photographed-beating-police-officer/?utm_source=fbsnopesvideo

But I think that makes it even more important that there not be even a drop of truth out there, that Antifa is throwing the first punch. Any punches thrown *at all* can be edited to look like the first punch. So you've gotta just sit there and take it. It hurts your EGO but it HELPS YOUR COUNTRY MORE. Take one for the team.

[JWizmentality]

I'm deadly serious about this. Do we want to turn into Israel and Palestine? Non violence is even more important than ever, because one tiny slipup gets broadcast all over the world.

Yeah, I admit the nazis are already making stuff up: http://www.snopes.com/antifa-member-photographed-beating-police-officer/?utm_source=fbsnopesvideo

But I think that makes it even more important that there not be even a drop of truth out there, that Antifa is throwing the first punch. Any punches thrown *at all* can be edited to look like the first punch. So you've gotta just sit there and take it. It hurts your EGO but it HELPS YOUR COUNTRY MORE. Take one for the team.

I'm speaking as an immigrant. This is my adopted country and it has absolutely nothing to do with ego. I get where you're coming from and you're student of history. During the civil rights era, this country was moving towards a turning point. We had leaders who understood that the status quo was untenable. We were on the steady path of progress. Getting beaten to a pulp worked because we were still fresh from a world war and the morale compass was always moving towards the right side of history. Fast forward to today. We've regressed badly. Donald Trump was elected president. Half the country support him. Half the country has rejected that progress and reject it violently.

Sorry but I don't see turning the other cheek as getting the same results not when we are bereft of leadership. Nothing but sycophants from top to bottom. We took a beating because we saw the finish line. We passed the finish line and now Donald Trump moved the goal post. And I don't believe anyone will take a beating now for the liberties they had already achieved.

I hope I'm wrong but I've been to Trump country and I see this only ending violently. Robert Mueller may be our only hope.

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[montestewart]

I'm deadly serious about this. Do we want to turn into Israel and Palestine? Non violence is even more important than ever, because one tiny slipup gets broadcast all over the world.

Yeah, I admit the nazis are already making stuff up: http://www.snopes.com/antifa-member-photographed-beating-police-officer/?utm_source=fbsnopesvideo

But I think that makes it even more important that there not be even a drop of truth out there, that Antifa is throwing the first punch. Any punches thrown *at all* can be edited to look like the first punch. So you've gotta just sit there and take it. It hurts your EGO but it HELPS YOUR COUNTRY MORE. Take one for the team.

I agree with the sentiment. There are examples where it has worked. I wonder whether media covering current events today would function similarly to that which aided Gandhi and MLK, or whether the right wing fake news machine would counter pacifist efforts and continue to spread fictions that successfully reinforce the fairness and justice and defending America and Christianity narratives. Many extreme leftists (anarchists, comunists, etc.) have their own agendas that don't embrace pacifism, which is repeatedly used to prove the uniform moral poverty of anti-Trump, BLM, etc.

[montestewart]

Where's the nearest Confederate statue btw?

I think King and Washington Streets in Alexandria, if it's still there. Maybe I'm overlooking some other statues.

UPDATE: Apparently there a few in the US Capitol

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/confederate-statues-washington-241663

And here's a story on a few other assorted "monuments" to the Confederacy

https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/10/27/how-many-confederate-memorials-are-in-dc-area/

[DCZards]

I’ve been following this violence vs. nonviolence debate between Zonk and JWizmentality, and it’s hard not to agree with both positions.

Zonk is absolutely right when he says that the success of the civil rights movement was due in large part to the nonviolent approach taken by it leaders and participants. Compelling images of freedom fighters allowing themselves to be savagely beaten (even killed) and attacked with fire hoses and dogs were instrumental in getting a nation and federal lawmakers to do the right thing.

However, JWiz is right when he says that those were different times and the country was moving in a direction that made it ripe for the advancement of civil rights using nonviolent tactics.

But in the end, I’d have to agree with Zonk’s conclusion that taking the violent approach against neo-Nazism and white supremacy plays into the hands of the bad guys and opens the door for them to claim they’re “victims.” It also makes it easier for our asinine president to claim that “both sides” are responsible for the violence

I firmly believe that the high and moral grounds (as well as the numbers) is solidly on the side of those of us who oppose/protest neo-Nazis, white supremacists and others who would attempt to turn back the clock on hard-earned rights and liberties. We must use that high ground to our best advantage.

[AFM]

Where's the nearest Confederate statue btw?

Baltimore had 4 taken down this morning.

You all should check out this vice episode on Charlottesville:
http://digg.com/2017/vice-news-charlottesville-episode

[AFM]

that vice news reporter is cute as phuk

[dckingsfan]

gtn - when was the last time you were at a rally or protest?

I attended a protest against the Venezuelan government a few weeks ago. Beyond that, I attended the Women's March in January.

I also donate a significant amount of money to the ACLU and Planned Parenthood. I canvassed and made phone calls for Hillary before the election. I've also canvassed for environmental groups in the past.

Don't know why I need to prove my activist credentials, though. If there's a rally/protest against Nazis that fits logistically with my life, then I'd be happy to attend.

Terrific - you are an activist. You care about this cause deeply. Get involved - be one of the Zonk7000. That's how we win. And why are the KKK so pissed? Because we have been winning for quite sometime. The work isn't done - it never is. But keep going, peacefully and intelligently.

[Ruzious]

I'm deadly serious about this. Do we want to turn into Israel and Palestine? Non violence is even more important than ever, because one tiny slipup gets broadcast all over the world.

Yeah, I admit the nazis are already making stuff up: http://www.snopes.com/antifa-member-photographed-beating-police-officer/?utm_source=fbsnopesvideo

But I think that makes it even more important that there not be even a drop of truth out there, that Antifa is throwing the first punch. Any punches thrown *at all* can be edited to look like the first punch. So you've gotta just sit there and take it. It hurts your EGO but it HELPS YOUR COUNTRY MORE. Take one for the team.

I'm speaking as an immigrant. This is my adopted country and it has absolutely nothing to do with ego. I get where you're coming from and you're student of history. During the civil rights era, this country was moving towards a turning point. We had leaders who understood that the status quo was untenable. We were on the steady path of progress. Getting beaten to a pulp worked because we were still fresh from a world war and the morale compass was always moving towards the right side of history. Fast forward to today. We've regressed badly. Donald Trump was elected president. Half the country support him. Half the country has rejected that progress and reject it violently.

Sorry but I don't see turning the other cheek as getting the same results not when we are bereft of leadership. Nothing but sycophants from top to bottom. We took a beating because we saw the finish line. We passed the finish line and now Donald Trump moved the goal post. And I don't believe anyone will take a beating now for the liberties they had already achieved.

I hope I'm wrong but I've been to Trump country and I see this only ending violently. Robert Mueller may be our only hope.

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I don't know what the best answer is, but violence should be avoided. It may feel good in the short-term, but it hurts in the long-term and leads to a slippery slope. The strategy should probably start with showing up and out-numbering them by as much as possible whereever they show up. That's voters... showing up, so it'll make a difference.

[JWizmentality]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating violence. I'm just saying that I don't see this ending peacefully.

Trump stokes these fires daily and the GOP has enabled him. They have been planting these fears for the past 9 years.

Who is out there as the voice of reason?

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[AFM]

I like how they all have the same haircut

when you think you look like this:



but you really look like this:

[dckingsfan]

Who is out there as the voice of reason?

You, me, etc. -- Where did Obama come from.

And yes, we have taken a step back but I believe in the country and the majority. I think this will be a blip (an ugly one but just a blip).

[gtn130]

[AFM]

double chin: check
nasty ass yellowed white polo: check
undershirt larger than the polo it's under: check
nerdy glasses with transition lenses: check

adolf is disappointed in you, kill ya self dunny

when you want to start a new ethnostate but you can't even do your laundry

[JWizmentality]

Who is out there as the voice of reason?

You, me, etc. -- Where did Obama come from.

And yes, we have taken a step back but I believe in the country and the majority. I think this will be a blip (an ugly one but just a blip).

I'm an immigrant
I'm black
In a relationship with a white woman

I don't see discourse going well

But I hear ya.

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[AFM]

Got to love Trump shutting down his manufacturing council after a bunch of CEOs dropped out. It's the political equivalent of getting rejected by a woman, and then muttering to yourself "she was phukking ugly anyway".