Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 6

[CobraCommander]

What the hell is Ainge doing? I don't get it.

I really like our chances against Boston.

Boston just moved thier core. I know Hayward and Kyrie are studs but this will be their first year together. Kyrie is a ISO player which will make Gordon less effective. Cleveland has one more year...when Lebron rolls the husk of Cleveland will be Love and IT...which will be decent but we can beat them. This is our last year where we dont get to the championship...



Boston going down

[JWizmentality]

^^ I wouldn't celebrate so quickly. It's a lateral move at worst. Still think they could beat us. They don't really lose anything with Crowder that Morris can't step in and provide. They got Hayward who kills us regularly and I think Kyrie is a tad better than IT to be honest. The one thing I feared the most was the refs' Harden treatment of the midget.

[closg00]

^^ I wouldn't celebrate so quickly. It's a lateral move at worst. Still think they could beat us. They don't really lose anything with Crowder that Morris can't step in and provide. They got Hayward who kills us regularly and I think Kyrie is a tad better than IT to be honest. The one thing I feared the most was the refs' Harden treatment of the midget.

Boston is a well-coached team, they will have their sh__it together in plenty of time for the playoffs.

[truwizfan4evr]

****! Cavs look scary now, I'm not really concerned with Boston. We got our core players back but now what? We didn't really get any better this off season like Cavs and Boston did.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If this Kyrie/Isaiah deal happens, my initial response is that the biggest winner in that trade is the Wizards.

Isaiah Thomas is inevitably going to have to defer somewhat to Lebron. He just had an outlier of a good season. I think he doesn't give them the same take over mentality Irving does.

OTOH, Boston get rid of a lot of leaders, defenders, competitors. They're going to have trouble defensively and with sharing the ball.

[WallToWall]

Kyrie/Isaiah deal: Boston lost a lot of toughness in this deal. However, they still have a ton of first round picks in the next 3 years. They could have a massive rebuild and be competitive in not time flat.
From out perspective, I think we can beat Boston. We should have more scoring and better defense.
Our best chance for a championship will be in 2 years.

[truwizfan4evr]

Had hopes for this season until this Cavs/boson trade went down. Back to being a depressed wizards fan again.

[truwizfan4evr]

Kyrie/Isaiah deal: Boston lost a lot of toughness in this deal. However, they still have a ton of first round picks in the next 3 years. They could have a massive rebuild and be competitive in not time flat.
From out perspective, I think we can beat Boston. We should have more scoring and better defense.
Our best chance for a championship will be in 2 years.

What happens in two years? WE stuck with our current roster Ernie over paid for.

[penbeast0]

Not sure Boston is going to be as good next season (more talent but maybe not as cohesive). . . and if not it will be blamed on Kyrie which could cause him to walk when his contract ends. I don't think it's going to improve Cleveland either (except when that Nets pick turns into a good player somehow) as I don't think Isaiah is going to match last year's performance going forward but it's still a better deal for them than the Pacers, Bulls, or Sacramento got in terms of return on talent for a star that they wanted to move.

[truwizfan4evr]

Not sure Boston is going to be as good next season . . . and if not it will be blamed on Kyrie which could cause him to walk when his contract ends. I don't think it's going to improve Cleveland either (except when that Nets pick turns into a good player somehow) as I don't think Isaiah is going to match last year's performance going forward but it's still a better deal for them than the Pacers, Bulls, or Sacramento got in terms of return on talent for a star that they wanted to move.

Lebron is going to get Thomas open looks and Isiah can just focus on scoring now. That going be scary the floor spacing the Cavs will have.

[Kanyewest]

If this Kyrie/Isaiah deal happens, my initial response is that the biggest winner in that trade is the Wizards.

Maybe, but if Boston is dumb enough to give up IT, Crowder, Tatum, and Zizic... Then we lose big time.
We all assume Wade will get bought out and go there...The cavs then become:
IT / Rose
Wade / JR / Korver / Shump
Lebron / Crowder / Osman
Love / Tatum / Jefferson
Thompson / Zizic / Frye

That team beats us this year... but the worst part is if Tatum hits, we're toast for the next 3-4 year. Because Lebron and IT can re-sign and trade Love for a package around a young SG...

The top 3 guards are IT, Wade & Rose? Could you find 3 poorer defenders in the league to pair with each other?

Then Korver, Love, Tatum, Frye & Jefferson aren't defending anyone either. Who knows about Zizic. I assume Shump is going in Boston deal to make it work cap wise.

I see a complete mess defensively for Cleveland.

Rose should not be ahead of JR in the rotation.

[80sballboy]

Great move by the Cavs. They get Boston's first-round pick next season that is Brooklyn's pick? Wow. Boston lost Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder, their best two defenders. Marcus Morris is not Crowder defensively. They'll be an offensive juggernaut with Heyward and now Irving but who will defend other than Smart? Will have to rely on young wings Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. I think this is a good move for us.

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[gambitx777]

So this is a strange trade. Boston is going to be a lot worse on D now, and they gave up a young big and a first. plus crowder? hmmm.
for the cavs. Does this make them better? not really. Zizic and the pick help them recoop years of trading future assets and crowder is young and cheap so that helps. But Thomas is not really much different than kyrie. Hes not going to help on D and he does about the same things. Crowder helps them the most, although thats the position they needed an upgrade at the least. if Zizic plays ill be suprised and the pick aint helping next year and what happens when D rose and JR blow out ( insert ligament, bone, joint, body part here) the cavs win the trade just in terms of future assets, crowder and his bomb ass contract, Zizic and the brooklyn first. But the celtics are not better and the cavs are about neutral or just over that from last year i think. But man asset wise Kyrie is not much of an upgrade over thomas, and you gave up so much for him. Man if EG can find a way any way at all to trade Mahinmi with out moving a first he wins the ofseason hands down.

[dangermouse]

Feels like both teams have diddled themselves here. Celts have a completely new core now. Hayward is a good defender but Bradley & Crowder were much better and tougher. I know that if I was a Celts fan I wouldn't be too stoked on this trade looking at what was given up. There's the potential that the trio of Kyrie/Hayward/Horford blows up and becomes a formidable big three, but they'll need time to develop chemistry. There's also the strong potential that Kyrie does, indeed, suck azz. If that's the case, losing IT, defense & depth will hurt them.

LeBron must be leaving again. The pick is good insurance, but moving Kyrie for IT doesn;t really solve any of the problems they had at this position. Crowder will be a boon for them in small ball lineups.

Overall, this feels like - if we have little in the way of health problems this year, our chances of making the ECF just went up. Boston look less scary on paper. Definitely beatable.

[dangermouse]

The fact the Cavs traded their best player, after making the freaking ECF, should be setting off alarm bells in regards to his injury. 1st seed and ECF appearance..... why trade the core when you have a chance? It might be an outside chance, but if your idea is "well we are planning to FOR REALLY REAL compete in the future" then I hope you have a crystal ball, because you never know what the rest of the league is about to do and you might have just gone from 10% chance of a championship to <1% chance of a championship.

[verbal8]

I think the structure of the deal is very good for the Cavs. IT is as close as a short-term replacement as they were going to get. Crowder is definitely a depth upgrade. Crowder and Love at the forwards may let them give LeBron a fair amount of rest during the regular season.

The future assets give them some flexibility, they can either rebuild if LeBron leaves or make a big short-term move(this season or next) if he is staying.

[Ruzious]

Great move by the Cavs. They get Boston's first-round pick next season that is Brooklyn's pick? Wow. Boston lost Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder, their best two defenders. Marcus Morris is not Crowder defensively. They'll be an offensive juggernaut with Heyward and now Irving but who will defend other than Smart? Will have to rely on young wings Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. I think this is a good move for us.

That's the thing - they've lost a ton of defense, physical toughness, and DEPTH. Don't forget them also losing Amir Johnson, Kelly Olynyk, and even Jerebko up front. Horford's 31/32; if anything happens to him, they're done. They have less depth at C/PF than the Wizards, and they're going to have to play small ball all the time. I Love their 2nd round pick - Ojeleye - as well as Tatum, but they're both more 3's than 4's, and they're rookies. And their Morris is more 3 than 4. He's even less of a rebounder and defender than Keif.

Yes, from Boston's POV, they're thinking they weren't going to re-sign Thomas and Crowder anyway, so they're giving up 1 year rentals of them and a draft pick for an all-star PG... even though Kyrie isn't really a PG. But they gave up so much more talent in the trade, that I find it hard to believe anyone really believes they come out better in the deal. The value of that pick is enormous.

Cleveland gets a huge win in this trade. Thomas should fit in great, because Cleveland's offense is mostly iso's, and he's an iso specialist. Crowder gives them a solid spot-up guy and jyd, and his biggest value is his defense - his presence allows James to play more free safety and relax on D. And the pick... and if the center they get can play...

[Rafael122]

The Celtics must be extremely confident that Nets pick won't be a top 3 pick.

[Dark Faze]

Unless Tatum explodes and hits his ceiling relatively quickly, I'd say we're better than the Celtics right now. They are extremely soft defensively now. And Wall guards Kyrie much better than he guards IT.

Cleveland dominated this trade. Thomas is not your typical used up old guard. He's averaged under 30mpg his entire career. His legs are good. And when healthy he's better than Kyrie. He'll be good for a while yet. I think if I'm cleveland I'd actually trade the Boston pick for yet another star in order to keep this thing going and get another extension out of LeBron.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Not sure Boston is going to be as good next season (more talent but maybe not as cohesive). . . and if not it will be blamed on Kyrie which could cause him to walk when his contract ends. I don't think it's going to improve Cleveland either (except when that Nets pick turns into a good player somehow) as I don't think Isaiah is going to match last year's performance going forward but it's still a better deal for them than the Pacers, Bulls, or Sacramento got in terms of return on talent for a star that they wanted to move.

Are the Celtics really more talented? Just like the Raptors before them, they showed that depth wins in the regular season and they've lost quite a bit of it. Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Amir Johnson and Olynyk to Hayward, Irving and Marcus Morris isn't necessarily a step up in talent in my eyes, and it comes at a cost of their depth. And Horford isn't getting any younger, either. I don't think they're as good. I think the Cavs are better this coming season, though, health permitting.