GT #4: Wizards @ Lakers 10:30 PM (ESPN/NBCSW/1500 AM)

[TGW]

PIF is a slave to his "advanced metrics". Same dude who said Ricky Rubio was better than Wall = credibility shot.

Advanced metrics? LOL. Would I need advanced metrics to make a judgment about Wall's game last night?

Btw, I never said Ricky Rubio was "better than Wall." What I did do a few years ago was point out that several point guards were having better seasons than John. Are there PGs I think are better than Wall? You bet there are. Isn't that kind of obvious?

But the John Wall we know over the last few years is a lot better than the John Wall represented by his 146 minutes of play so far. That too is kind of obvious.

Sure PIF, sure.

[CobraCommander]

Btw...if you bench Wall you might as well trade him.

Btw... how do you know that? He a friend of yours?

Something needs to happen. What it is is between Brooks & Wall. The only reason I put it the way I did is that I am worried that Wall is playing out of the "wants respect" vibe we've been reading about. That he's trying to show that he's dominant.

The impulse to do that can only make him a worse player not a better one. In any field, actually, that impulse has the same effect.

Yes he actually is..but that doesnt matter. Can you tell me when was the last time a coach benched the best player of the team for PLAY while that player was avg 24/10 four games into the season while the team was 3-1 (.750 winning%)?

If John wants respect- benching Wall MAY BE considered publicly disrespecting him. Would you want Brooks to risk alienating Wall? I know if i were Wall I wouldn’t want my boss publicly embarrassing me. When they talk about Pop and Tim Duncan being Coached...Tim was a different type of person than Wall or most other NBA players and Pop is a different type of coach. You think Brooks could bench Wall after one horrible game and 3 kinda bad games and still have that locker room? Then what should Brooks to Beal for missing those free throws?

Look I’m not trying to insult you so dont torch me for my opinion but I dont think public punitive performance management works with arrogant young men. If Brooks rips John in a film session it would be MORE than appropriate. Wall and Beal were disappointing...

[dangermouse]

Might have actually been a game where we should have started Smith at PF. Those few tip ins that Nance got in the first 5 mins of the game came at the end of some decent defense & really set the tone for the whole LA team. Too big, long and athletic for Porter to handle. A bigger body to box out might have done the trick.

[zero2hero]

...I keep hearing around here we need to "give" Porter more shots. Porter needs to earn his shots. If he's smothered on the perimeter, take your man to the rim. If the offense is stagnated, take your man to the post and aggressively call for the ball. Kief does it, and he's nowhere near as talented as Otto. Beal earned his shots. Wall, nor Scotty certainly didn't hold him back (although I'm more inclined to blame Scotty if he's not able to incorporate him). Time for Porter to earn his contract and play like a max player.

I'd say this might be the most useless post of the entire season so far -- congratulations.

The main problem we have right now is Wall trying to do, in essence, the dumb thing you suggest -- to show how good he is.

If you want to win games, you feed a guy who shoots a high percentage. No, he doesn't have to "earn" those shots. Moreover, if a player who can do what Porter does instead "take(s) (his) man to the post and aggressively call(s) for the ball" I bench him until he remembers to do the things he does best.

Be a good idea to bench John Wall for a game.

You followed his useless post of the year with the worse quote of the year...”be a good idea to bench John Wall for a game”. This Stephen A Smith/Skip Bayless level overreaction/hyperbolic thinking.

JOHN WAS HORRIBLE For 3 quarters and the OT...everyone agrees
Beal Missed Critical Free throws (which is a trend lately) that cost us the game...everyone agrees
Otto disappeared offensively and couldn’t stop a runny nose and THEN FOULED OUT and essentially played like he did 2 years ago...everyone agrees.
Gortat played Bad-
KO couldn’t stop Ingram-
Defensive Rotations were horrible-
The bench outplayed the starters -
Ian is playing like Ochefu-
And we lost to BBB on national TV-

Did i miss anything?

It was the most deflating L since that Bulls L two years ago.

Wall wants to be considered elite..Beal wants to be an AllStar...Otto is just being Otto...Gortat thinks he still has game in the tank...and all of them want more respect than they getting nationally AND WHEN THEY BREAK THROUGH AND GET NATIONALLY TELEVISED GAMES...they put this one on thier resume.

If anyone blames any individual in the starting roster more than anyone else- I know you didnt watch the game...there was blame to go around to all....ESPECIALLY WALL AND BEAL IN THE FORTH QUARTER.

Wall and Beal played ISO....trading times running iso. Beal missed open shots and that Gortat Dunk came back to haunt them so bad...

Moving on but I dont trust them...again. And now we gotta hear BBB owned us when Zo was horrible most of the night. That boy needs to eat and learn the shoot or I see a less than aggressive defensively Rondo in Zo.A


Btw...if you bench Wall you might as well trade him.

Lol seriously. What a take

[zero2hero]

...I keep hearing around here we need to "give" Porter more shots. Porter needs to earn his shots. If he's smothered on the perimeter, take your man to the rim. If the offense is stagnated, take your man to the post and aggressively call for the ball. Kief does it, and he's nowhere near as talented as Otto. Beal earned his shots. Wall, nor Scotty certainly didn't hold him back (although I'm more inclined to blame Scotty if he's not able to incorporate him). Time for Porter to earn his contract and play like a max player.

I'd say this might be the most useless post of the entire season so far -- congratulations.

The main problem we have right now is Wall trying to do, in essence, the dumb thing you suggest -- to show how good he is.

If you want to win games, you feed a guy who shoots a high percentage. No, he doesn't have to "earn" those shots. Moreover, if a player who can do what Porter does instead "take(s) (his) man to the post and aggressively call(s) for the ball" I bench him until he remembers to do the things he does best.

Be a good idea to bench John Wall for a game.

I'd say this might be the most useless post of the entire season so far -- congratulations.

Wall is trying to show how good he is....because he is good. Lol wtf. A guy can be the most efficient player to ever walk the earth but if he doesn't seek out his shots, it doesn't matter. I don't know if you've ever played basketball, but not every. single. basket. is a designed play. Sometimes it's just someone breaking someone else down on a 1v1 play. Otto clearly has great instincts with his backdoor cuts. He needs to develop that same instinct when breaking down his man. You are essentially asking your players to play like robots - and that's not how basketball works lol. That's not how ANY of this works.

Be a good idea to bench John Wall for a game.

LMAO. Calling me post useless when this is a Colin Cowherd/Skip Bayless/Lavar Ball-esque take. Go churn out some more word salad in your hyperbole machine and try again.

[zero2hero]

What's with this black/white thinking. Either it's all John and Coaches fault or it's all Otto's fault. Black/White thinking destroys teams because it focuses on assigning blame rather than coming up with solutions. If you remember back when Beal was less aggressive, coach would routinely say that Beal needs to be more aggressive. It's not about Otto saying "I need to be more aggressive. That's not his personality. It's about the team realizing that Otto taking more shots makes a better team and giving him more opportunities. Everyone needs to be on the same page. A team is like a jazz band. Everyone has to play from the same music. Are there solo's? Yes. But they are planned and everyone knows they are coming. Let's let this team evolve and learn from their mistakes. It's a long season.

The thing is, my post was rallying AGAINST "black and white" thinking. It's John's/Scott's fault Otto isn't getting shots. It's NOT John's/Scott's fault Otto isn't getting shots. When I talked about Beal, I was saying exactly your point. Beal was so good, and proved it, whether during practices, or in games, and as a result, his FGA increased. That's all I ask from Otto. What I'm saying is, there's isn't some glass ceiling holding him back that someone hasn't broken before (Beal "broke through it", for example).

Ahhhh, reading comprehension fail on my part.

No biggie. Looking back, my post wasn't as clear as I had though - clearly I was still rattled by Lavar Ball

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Think of all the money that Wall, Beal, and Porter make between them.

And think of the Lakers all with rookie salaries except for Clarkson.



Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

CCJ would you give up one of Beal or Porter if Boogie Cousins became available?

He might give up Wall.

Boogie Cousins made the most of his nationally televised game tonight: 41 points, 23 rebounds, 6 assists with 3 made 3-pt shots.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Dat2U]

4 games into the yr and were only 3-1 and Wall is awful, Porter isn't living up to his contract and Beal's lost his 3 pt range. We should blow the team up now!

[Wizardspride]

CCJ would you give up one of Beal or Porter if Boogie Cousins became available?

He might give up Wall.

Boogie Cousins made the most of his nationally televised game tonight: 41 points, 23 rebounds, 6 assists with 3 made 3-pt shots.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

And I STILL wouldn't trade Wall for him.

The point of trading for Boogie is to pair him WITH Wall.

[Dark Faze]

Are there any numbers out there in regards to how good the league is as a whole at defending the rim? I just feel like while perimeter D seems to be hit or miss, most teams are quite adept at defending the rim. Even with 4 shooters and one big man, there are times where I felt like we had almost no spacing when Gortat was out there. I like Gortat, but I feel like we need to be more fluid with our rotations. There were times where things just seemed cramped beyond belief against an athletic team like LA, and I feel like we should have put 5 shooters on the court and see if that would have helped our offense for a sec.

[tontoz]

Are there any numbers out there in regards to how good the league is as a whole at defending the rim? I just feel like while perimeter D seems to be hit or miss, most teams are quite adept at defending the rim. Even with 4 shooters and one big man, there are times where I felt like we had almost no spacing when Gortat was out there. I like Gortat, but I feel like we need to be more fluid with our rotations. There were times where things just seemed cramped beyond belief against an athletic team like LA, and I feel like we should have put 5 shooters on the court and see if that would have helped our offense for a sec.

Who are the "4 shooters" you are referencing here?

[payitforward]

Btw...if you bench Wall you might as well trade him.

Btw... how do you know that? He a friend of yours?

Something needs to happen. What it is is between Brooks & Wall. The only reason I put it the way I did is that I am worried that Wall is playing out of the "wants respect" vibe we've been reading about. That he's trying to show that he's dominant.

The impulse to do that can only make him a worse player not a better one. In any field, actually, that impulse has the same effect.

Yes he actually is..but that doesnt matter. Can you tell me when was the last time a coach benched the best player of the team for PLAY while that player was avg 24/10 four games into the season while the team was 3-1 (.750 winning%)?

If John wants respect- benching Wall MAY BE considered publicly disrespecting him. Would you want Brooks to risk alienating Wall? I know if i were Wall I wouldn’t want my boss publicly embarrassing me. When they talk about Pop and Tim Duncan being Coached...Tim was a different type of person than Wall or most other NBA players and Pop is a different type of coach. You think Brooks could bench Wall after one horrible game and 3 kinda bad games and still have that locker room? Then what should Brooks to Beal for missing those free throws?

Look I’m not trying to insult you so dont torch me for my opinion but I dont think public punitive performance management works with arrogant young men. If Brooks rips John in a film session it would be MORE than appropriate. Wall and Beal were disappointing...

Not going to torch you, cobra. This is essentially an exchange about psychology, & you may be right. In fact, some people you motivate by telling them "you can do it! Keep at it!" Others you motivate by telling them "I don't know, maybe you don't have it in you? Maybe you should just give up?"

Just depends on the person. In any case, I didn't intend anything "anti" John Wall, who is a terrific player (& seems to be a quality person too, as far as one can tell). OTOH, if he actually is your friend, that explains why you consistently rate him a little higher than he should rate. (that's not criticism of him either, btw)

[Dark Faze]

Are there any numbers out there in regards to how good the league is as a whole at defending the rim? I just feel like while perimeter D seems to be hit or miss, most teams are quite adept at defending the rim. Even with 4 shooters and one big man, there are times where I felt like we had almost no spacing when Gortat was out there. I like Gortat, but I feel like we need to be more fluid with our rotations. There were times where things just seemed cramped beyond belief against an athletic team like LA, and I feel like we should have put 5 shooters on the court and see if that would have helped our offense for a sec.

Who are the "4 shooters" you are referencing here?

Wall/Kelly/Beal/Otto/Gortat was the lineup.

Yea, only two of those guys are really respected as shooters, but Kelly is shooting well from there this year and people know he can hit it.

[zero2hero]

Are there any numbers out there in regards to how good the league is as a whole at defending the rim? I just feel like while perimeter D seems to be hit or miss, most teams are quite adept at defending the rim. Even with 4 shooters and one big man, there are times where I felt like we had almost no spacing when Gortat was out there. I like Gortat, but I feel like we need to be more fluid with our rotations. There were times where things just seemed cramped beyond belief against an athletic team like LA, and I feel like we should have put 5 shooters on the court and see if that would have helped our offense for a sec.

Who are the "4 shooters" you are referencing here?

Wall/Kelly/Beal/Otto/Gortat was the lineup.

Yea, only two of those guys are really respected as shooters, but Kelly is shooting well from there this year and people know he can hit it.

Smith actually wasn't that bad defending at the rim last year compared to Gortat. Granted, he faced less than half of the attempts, but still.

https://stats.nba.com/players/defensive-impact/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612764&sort=DEF_RIM_FGA&dir=1

[queridiculo]

So disgusted by the effort I couldn't even stand to log onto RealGM until now.

Just pitiful effort from the starters in all phases of the game. The bench actually gave us a good enough spark to make this a blow out but the starters were just sleep walking through this game from the opening tip.

Did Wall pushed the pace on a dead ball even once? It seemed like he walked up the ball all night, made a few lazy passes and called it a day. No movement on offense, a bunch of ball hogging iso plays and then way to compound all of that but by turning down easy points from the freethrow line.

Was anybody really surprised that Beal managed to blow it from the freethrow line yet again? Almost gave the Sixers a chance to steal one choking from the line and now gave this one away with yet another missed shot from the charity stripe.

The Wizards are not good enough to take anybody lightly.

[AFM]

lol this last page is great

[montestewart]

So quit with all the useless posts. Who's starting the GS thread? Hurry up before a Pistons fan does it.

[TheBabyMaker]

So quit with all the useless posts. Who's starting the GS thread? Hurry up before a Pistons fan does it.

LOL, I think some of these guys would rather jump off a ledge than start a new GT. Pretty sad you ask me.

[montestewart]

So quit with all the useless posts. Who's starting the GS thread? Hurry up before a Pistons fan does it.

LOL, I think some of these guys would rather jump off a ledge than start a new GT. Pretty sad you ask me.

Maybe they're dodging game thread honors because they expect a loss and don't want to undermine their numbers in game thread advanced analytics.

Oh well, I make a pretty lousy game thread, but if no one else has one up pretty soon, I'll slap one together and rely on Ducler to provide graphics. I'm a pass first poster, I'm not all about individual stats.

[FAH1223]

So quit with all the useless posts. Who's starting the GS thread? Hurry up before a Pistons fan does it.

Ducler?