GT #38: Knicks @ Wizards 7 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM)

[Ruzious]

Good lawd.

Fake news! Mahinmi??? No way. GTFO.

I hate to be a curmudgeon - or to use the word curmudgeon - twice now in one sentence, but... 25 minutes in 9 games... it's nice but meh.

[doclinkin]

Good analogy. Mahinmi is very much like Haywood, although he is more foul prone.

And in today's style of play with centers expected to play more of an active role on offense, I suspect Haywood would have been a bench player.

I don't recall screaming at my television nearly as much when Haywood played.

LOL.

It may have been because the offense in that day was able to get by without ever giving the center the ball. Haywood wasn't running pick-and-rolls. He was just lurking around the weakside block looking for offensive rebounding opportunities. These days, now that everyone has capitalized on the more lenient zone defense rules, a team can't afford to just put his center on the weakside block and have him crash the glass. It permits the defense to put one more guy in the paint to stop penetration. All 5 players must be a threat in today's offensive sets. Ideally, that means that your center can shoot from the perimeter as a high post guy or a catch-and-shoot 3-ball guy. If not, the next best thing is for your center to be a very good pick-and-roll rim diver.

Eh, we were screaming at the TV when Haywood DIDN'T play. Though that was in part because EFJ was constantly trying to find a high post center who could maximize our outside-in dribble drive attack. The success of Gilbert and Larry and Antawn in the 'no hand check' era can in part be credited for todays league wide outside-in attack. We had ridiculous offensive efficiency at times, even with Brendan proving to be something of a stiff on offense. Eddie wanted to make a center out of Pecherov or Blatche or whats-his-neck Hilton Armstrong I think? Kept trying to find a face-up center with range to open up the middle for Gil and Larry and Caron to drive underneath.

What Haywood had over Mahinmi though was his remarkable standing reach. Both have defensive smarts and use their positioning well, but at the time big 'Wood was like top 3 all time in the DraftXpress measurements database in the column for standing reach. Tall, wide shoulders, long wingspan, he was MJ's best success as a GM. Brendan was smart enough that I suspect he would have found a way to play and even start in todays NBA. Once he saw that three point shooting centers were making all the money at his position and forcing him to the bench he would have found a way to make that a facet of his game. Difference was we ended up with Etan or Ruffin or PJRamos as his back-ups, so no competition and none of them ever proved to have reliable range either.

Notable in Ernie's failures, we coulda had Marc Gasol, who would have been a perfect fit as a smart smooth passing point pivot center for the dribble hand off motion back door Princeton offense.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't recall screaming at my television nearly as much when Haywood played.

LOL.

It may have been because the offense in that day was able to get by without ever giving the center the ball. Haywood wasn't running pick-and-rolls. He was just lurking around the weakside block looking for offensive rebounding opportunities. These days, now that everyone has capitalized on the more lenient zone defense rules, a team can't afford to just put his center on the weakside block and have him crash the glass. It permits the defense to put one more guy in the paint to stop penetration. All 5 players must be a threat in today's offensive sets. Ideally, that means that your center can shoot from the perimeter as a high post guy or a catch-and-shoot 3-ball guy. If not, the next best thing is for your center to be a very good pick-and-roll rim diver.

Eh, we were screaming at the TV when Haywood DIDN'T play. Though that was in part because EFJ was constantly trying to find a high post center who could maximize our outside-in dribble drive attack. The success of Gilbert and Larry and Antawn in the 'no hand check' era can in part be credited for todays league wide outside-in attack. We had ridiculous offensive efficiency at times, even with Brendan proving to be something of a stiff on offense. Eddie wanted to make a center out of Pecherov or Blatche or whats-his-neck Hilton Armstrong I think? Kept trying to find a face-up center with range to open up the middle for Gil and Larry and Caron to drive underneath.

What Haywood had over Mahinmi though was his remarkable standing reach. Both have defensive smarts and use their positioning well, but at the time big 'Wood was like top 3 all time in the DraftXpress measurements database in the column for standing reach. Tall, wide shoulders, long wingspan, he was MJ's best success as a GM. Brendan was smart enough that I suspect he would have found a way to play and even start in todays NBA. Once he saw that three point shooting centers were making all the money at his position and forcing him to the bench he would have found a way to make that a facet of his game. Difference was we ended up with Etan or Ruffin or PJRamos as his back-ups, so no competition and none of them ever proved to have reliable range either.

Notable in Ernie's failures, we coulda had Marc Gasol, who would have been a perfect fit as a smart smooth passing point pivot center for the dribble hand off motion back door Princeton offense.

Aloha from (--your nickname for me that I understand/find humor with years later--), Bipolar Bear!

(BTW, Mark Ruffalo is one of my favorite actors! He is still playing that same character as Marvel Comics Hulk that he played years ago in very polar bear.)

I'm laughing to myself because I was literally just thinking "doclinkin got too good for this board"... God's honest truth I opened up my phone app to real GM and yours was the first username I saw!



Per usual really good stuff to think about, doc.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I was screaming at EFJ about Haywood, too.

I loved Eddie Jordan to death as coach of this team. ... However, he just made me apoplectic in the way he refused to play Haywood!!!

I started calling him Eddie Smalls. He would rather put at Center position Darius Songaila or Michael Ruffin or his boy Etan Thomas.

Small ball would work better today than it did 10 or 12 years ago when Eddie was the coach....

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nate: I agree that all five players must be an offensive threat in today's NBA. I would say the center needs to be able to make three-point shots, specifically.

Sato
Oubre
Porter
Morris
Smith

No Gortat or Ian Mahinmi. No ball-dominant guards either. I know that it would get picked apart by quicker point guards. I wonder if passing the ball could take the place of (over) dribbling the ball. Kelly Oubre shoots a lot anyway so in my mind he's really just a tall shooting guard.

Forgive me for being fixated on those 5 on the floor together... It's a thought I've just been using about for hours.


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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Pecherov of then might be a darn good or at worst effective center in today's NBA.

Eddie Jordan was ahead of his time in my opinion. He had some brilliant ideas about offense but was doomed to fail in this NBA because of egos and his own inflexibility. NBA players did not want to run Princeton sets.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Hilton Armstrong... I'd say he was arguably just as good as Ian Mahinmi.

I'm sure I'm wrong but it's funny to think about it.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Brendan Haywood I agree with the doctor would have figured out today's game.

That guy having developed a three-point shot (similar to Joel Embiid's) would be a very good C in today's NBA.

[doclinkin]

Pecherov of then might be a darn good or at worst effective center in today's NBA.

Except he couldn't shoot. Or pass. Or defend. or score on the block. He had a face-up shot that looked like it might work but it never actually went in.

After the Gilbert era many people borrowed the structure of the EFJ small ball game to mimic that offensive efficiency. Longball + freethrows became the rule of the land. He showed how it could work, with Gil and Larry, but never had that Draymond Green type who could both defend at one end, and pass and shoot from the high post at the other end. The Bill Russell role in the Celtic sets from which the Princeton offense was derived. Where the post was called the Pivot and all players revolved around that hub. Brendan and Kwame and Etan etc were never gonna be that sweet passing centerpole through whom you can run an offense. And on defense all were a step slow and out of position, especially if Gil was asleep on defense ball watching and not paying his position.

We were one player away. Though to be fair that player was the 1960s Bill Russell. Or Embiid/Unibrow nowadays.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Pecherov of then might be a darn good or at worst effective center in today's NBA.

Except he couldn't shoot. Or pass. Or defend. or score on the block. He had a face-up shot that looked like it might work but it never actually went in.

After the Gilbert era many people borrowed the structure of the EFJ small ball game to mimic that offensive efficiency. Longball + freethrows became the rule of the land. He showed how it could work, with Gil and Larry, but never had that Draymond Green type who could both defend at one end, and pass and shoot from the high post at the other end. The Bill Russell role in the Celtic sets from which the Princeton offense was derived. Where the post was called the Pivot and all players revolved around that hub. Brendan and Kwame and Etan etc were never gonna be that sweet passing centerpole through whom you can run an offense. And on defense all were a step slow and out of position, especially if Gil was asleep on defense ball watching and not paying his position.

We were one player away. Though to be fair that player was the 1960s Bill Russell. Or Embiid/Unibrow nowadays.

If you look at his actual performance in terms of makes or misses you are absolutely correct. He did not demonstrate that he can make a shot so I will accept you saying that he couldn't.

That guy could shoot like a mother f*****.

Stewie Pecherov missed a lot of shots but he never got a real chance to get in a comfort zone. He was on that same Stuck on Stupid team that had nothing but young guys. Andray Blatche was very young. Nick Young was very young. Javale McGee was very young. Eddie Jordan attempted to play Stewie. I remember he even tried one line up with Blatche, Stewie, and a third big -- I believe perhaps JaVale McGee.

EJ had already figured out position-less basketball...

Wonders why the guy couldn't do anything right?

Doctor, I'm going to allude to a concept known as zpd. Zone of proximal development. My thought is that baby steps could have helped Stewie if there were veterans and coaches and coaching security to enable him to become a good shooter.

I've said enough...

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Eddie Jordan with Draymond Green at Center might have become a Hall of Fame coach.

Great post as usual doctor.

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